Just a thought

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Qwantum Abyss, Sep 22, 2021.

  1. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    So now we are clamped (i say its good for the health of the game BUT thats not the point here)
    Before, a CR skip group could faceroll content with their 80sp

    Whats the cr skip consideration in this? Now that we r clamped, we cant carry “scrub skippers” like we used to (i say that affectionately as i skipped when i came back). SP matters more now. Is there more SP now to be included in the skips so these ppl arent as much dead weight as the new system just made them?

    I could go into this being an opportunity to finish obsoleting PVP an award the feats for the extra SP but lets see if anything else productive comes of this thread as i havent seen this mentioned really since the clamp
  2. Vincent Lestrange New Player

    I am hoping they are looking to perform some type of pvp revamp cause all of those pvp feats seem near impossible now in current stage of the game. Including it in character skip would be nice.
    • Like x 1
  3. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    maybe a FEW extra SP; bump it up to 150 or so, that might stop people from complaining about the fact that SP work exactly like they say they do on the box... but not really what I came here to say...

    I dunno, I think the fact that the world works differently now is more of a boon than the way it did before - granted, a 340-something ringer with 160+ arts and 400 or so SP isn't going to solo-carry an entire 210 CR range Raid like before, but with the clamp adding old relevancy (and the fun associated with Actual Challenge) back into the equation?

    People who would normally never bother to run old content are in it daily now. I don't know about the Omnibus playlist, because I've always been more of an open-world player, and now that the world is basically "all content Bounty Festival", I've been out killing everything - because it's profitable again, and because it's been a damned long time since Doctor Light was anything but a joke. Spoiler Alert - he's not a joke anymore.

    But as a result of that, there ARE a few of those ringers in places they'd never show up in before, so... ehhh. I dunno. I think people are going to start learning eventually - and maybe, learning slightly better things than what was on the table before. A brand new player coming in and seeing a top-end DPS Vortex-style an entire Alert is a bad example to set, because although it's Awesome (and it's Awesome) it's also Not How The Game Actually Works, unless you're severely overgeared.

    Overgearing is only so possible now, so sooner or later those "good" behaviors will start coming back into vogue - like "running pickups" and "following mechanics". I think that's going to have a more positive effect on the player base than "200 free SP" will.
    • Like x 5
  4. Dev72 Dedicated Player

    Although, that may fix the issue in the short term, however, in the long term in my opinion will not fix the issue entirely; especially as more SP and CR(gear leveling to avoid confusion) is being implemented through progression. The only option at this point is to make it to where newly created toons could not CR skip, and are directed through the normal progression of content with the ability to purchase feats over from their main if it is an Alt.

    If they plan on keeping the CR skip in place, then warnings should be in place to make sure the person is well informed that by skipping they are dramatically reducing their combat ability at the levels they have skipped to.

    With the direction the clamp has now taken us, there are plenty of opportunities for a mix of end game players playing the post level 30 early end game content more frequently, for those toons to progress as they should. Especially considering that loot and marks for gear to level is not locked behind having to spend replays. Moreover, this has allowed the progression of newly created toons to move faster through the progression system faster than before while allowing feats to be gained in the process.

    With that noted, the importance of building groups to run content specifically for feats moving forward is still extremely important, and there should be a tutorial specifically for how the chat system works and the importance of LFG.
    • Like x 2
  5. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    They arent, PvP is done an has been done for a while and the devs have said multiple times they arent working on it :(
    • Like x 2
  6. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Agree fully to the first part.
    Skips can go in the dumpster lol, i only ask about the SP aspect because i dont see that happening hus there is a “need” for the skips to come with more SP and since the devs have said repetedly PvP wont he worked on, it seems an easy candidate for the extra SP in a skip is all.

    Now, to your point of more endgamers in ld content then before i respectfully disagree.
    ALL and i repeat AAAALLLLLLLLLLL incentive to run older content is gone under the new system.
    Feats? Nope, much harder now and most real end gamers have them (or have enough of them)
    Source? Nope, a 90 min bounty run or 2 hrs of fos spam solves that.
    Styles? Maybe buy really? Styles? Most have what they need when referencing end game because we already did it when it took 5 min per run
    Items to sell on broker? Nope, not in most cases. Not worth the effort. Sell cats, time capsule stuff etc.
    Faster, easier.

    Sorry but i think you are WAY off base thinking now that content is more difficult and more time consuming that more end gamers are running it.
    It just cant be the case. Its backward logic and makes absolutly no sense.
    It was the devs intent for sure but no dice, we been playin too long, most of us are smarter than that lol
  7. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    Some of us still like to actually play the game to play the game. It's not all about stocking up on source marks or DC cash in the quickest and most efficient way.
    • Like x 5
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    The issue for me is where do you take them from and what feats do you decide to diminish at the expense of effectively selling.

    I will never agree to provide PVP feats out in what is effectively a PVE CR skip token.

    PVP feats should be obtained by participating within PVP irrespective of whether it is broken or otherwise.

    If we were to entertain the idea of selling PVP feats then imo it should be for a PVP CR skip token that provides a boost to PVP gear and CR not PVE and the revenue obtained from those purchases should go directly towards fixing PVP.

    In regards to PVE feats then I would suggest the best place if any to start looking for feats to give away would be early PVE DLC (exlcuding Last Laugh)
    • Like x 4
  9. Mentaldope40 Dedicated Player

    I would love this right here. What a brilliant idea!
  10. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    Honestly, if PVP is broken and not going to be fixed... I don't see why you wouldn't use those to skip. I mean... I need SP, but I've never even considered using PVP to get SP because I know how broken it is. I mean, in the end, a lot of pvp stuff is arrangements...you let me beat you, I'll let you beat me type of deals now.
    • Like x 3
  11. Dev72 Dedicated Player


    To a point..yes...and to a point no. The ones that are not running older content for the most part mainly are self proclaimed elitists(in most cases they lack the skill to be one) who refuse to run the content, and mainly stay within their own clicks...which that is their prerogative to be snobbish. But, good on them for throwing money at the game for just hanging out and replaying the last 3 episodes in hopes that a drop will occur to throw in the broker or barter over trade chat, while gathering cats that are dramatically losing their value as the latest and greatest episode grows older or due to the daily reward system combined with the loyalty system.

    With that said, there are end game vets dipping their toes in older content and playing it.
  12. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    I think it's because a lot of people still cling to the idea that "I worked for it, so should you" . Unfortunately PvP is not what it once was and like you said, a lot people have to broker deals in order to complete the feats because there's very little participation and activity involved in PvP.

    People used to get banned for paying other players to throw PvP matches but all I see now is the same thing but without game cash involved. Players want the feats so bad they do it for free.
  13. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Some are but m willing to lay out the chips that most are not.
    Omnibus offers no incentive, source is not incentive as its obtained faster elsewhere, most endgamers dont need the styles as we already have them, its not challenging enough to warrant us to do it from that perspective, feats? Meh, not likely. Anyone who has them dont need to go do that again.
    There is no incentive to do it.
    Will some do it on occasion? Sure
    Most wont tho, im willing to bet anyway because we have no reason to.
    Some will do it for the fun (or the frustration when u get the “rite” group and its a 2 hr trainwreck but most wont.
    Endgamers are doing this content less not more im quite sure. And most of the ones that are are prob not blind Qing.
    Also note* you lump us together as eliteish or snobbish…..
    Where does that come from? How is not wanting to subject myself to failed raids, bad players, runs that take potentially hours, for little to no reward, for things i dont even need snobbish?
    Thats purely sensible and level headed is what it is lol. Its got nothing to do with an elitist attitude and everything to do with a common sense approach lol
  14. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    I can agree with it if it would actually happen.
    Which scenario proposed is is the safe bet tho? Also, i dont care about the PvP feats at all. Its just the low hanging fruit.
    Pvap is broke an not going to be fixed. Its not that many feats or SP. just seems like the logical/easiest move to me is all.

    Im on record as sayin toss CR skips into the dumpster lol but since we have em, i think now that content is clamped they need to come with more SP an the obvious SP to me is the PVP stuff is all
    • Like x 1
  15. Proxystar #Perception

    That depends, are we expecting CR skippers to have an easy ride even in stat clamped content? They wouldn't have that type of easy ride if they were leveling up naturally and the CR skip isn't designed to provide the player with an absolute pass on effort.

    So with that being said as well, I don't necessarily agree they need any additional SP given to them at all, just my view.
    • Like x 2
  16. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    I can follow that.
    I was looking at it more from the perspective of 2 things
    1) how this change (clamp) impacted endgame player participation
    2) from scale in that we could faceroll before + CR skippers = 80 sp to skippers.

    So for #1
    I think this change has negativly impacted ndgame participaion in the older clamped content (for multiple reasons like no incentive at all) but for this covos purpose, lets focus on the fact now we cant faceroll it/solo it so one random dps is not carrying a group of skippers. They gotta pull their weight or at least some of it and they cant (also for many reasons like skill lol) but for this convo purposes im focusing on SP and part of this is because they pack it. 80 is not enough to be semi-functional much less fun tional enough and his leads to fails, us getting frustrated, them getting frustrated, etc etc.
    Its all negative result and opposite of what the clamp was intended to accomplish.

    For #2 is really that cut an dry. I was looking at it from scale.
    If we could faceroll before then 80 sp was plenty to give a skipper an we could carry
    They made it harder for this to happen so logically i thought perhaps more SP should come with it?

    Now again, this is all ONLY because i
    1) dont think PvP will ever get attention
    2) dont think skips will ever go away

    So i was attempting to think w/in those 2 constraints on the premiss im correct. I want to be wrong an if i am then all this is moot.
    If they trash skips (they wont) and fix PvP (they wont, and they have said this repeatedly) then i am perfectly happy and all is rite with the universe. The 80 they currently get they didnt earn same as the PvP ones i bring up wouldnt be earned (its no different. At its core, its granting a feat because reasons).

    So in the end i wamt what you want for sure, i just dont see a way it will ever happen so im tryin to think w/in that constraint is all even if its not my preferred choice (its NOT)
  17. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    This is kinda where I'm at - I figure the "Free ride" is the fact that you can go into content being effectively overgeared for it, even if it's not by an absurd ratio now. Characters WON'T be overgeared enough to curb-stomp the Brine Hulk anymore, but they will be fine in most content provided they follow the basic mechanics and aren't using an absolutely backwards build. And shock - that'll result in them doubling their SP in a couple months, if they're paying attention.
    • Like x 1
  18. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    What would everyone think about just creating a new system for new players to get skill points, not feats?

    This is just relating to the concept, not the actual work required by the devs to implement it, because frankly we have no idea how complex anything is with this game's spaghetti code, lol.

    My idea is this: New players would earn a type of XP from running older content. Each alert and raid would award a small quantity of XP. Continuing to play the content would eventually add up to 1 skill point, so forth. The maximum amount of SP earnable would be the same as that awarded by the normal (not elite) feats in said episode.

    Let's say that there are 20 total SP from feats in War of Light Pt. 1, with maybe 16 of those 20 from normal content. By repeatedly just playing the content, new players would eventually get 16 skill points.

    They wouldn't actually unlock the feats however. They wouldn't be able to unlock those skill points on alts. This would retain some of the exclusivity of the feats themselves while giving new players a faster way to get skill points. If someone wanted to do the actual feats, they would be able to, but the two forms of SP wouldn't stack. If you already have the feats, you're good to go.

    This system would only apply to a certain age of legacy content. There would be a large buffer with more current content not affected, since the chances are high that a larger amount of players are looking for those newer feats.
  19. Proxystar #Perception

    I'm not sure I agree with the participation point, my experience has been that in general more of the content is popping than it was prior to the clamp, quite literally thanks to things like the omnibus and the clamp system itself putting us all in it together.

    That point to one side, I'm confused as to why we actually need to entertain the face-rolling of any content really in general. When we leveled up and did a bunch of these feats we didn't possess much more than the SP possessed by the CR token users, but they have the advantage at least of having some progress provided to them.

    All of us obtained those feats progressively and it yea it was a mountain, but you just have to climb it bit by bit. I can't help but feel CR skippers are expecting to continue to be able to skip things rather than taking the elements they did skip but understanding there are other elements they're going to have to slow down with and proceed with in a more natural linear method even if that means going back to some older stuff and approaching it with that expectation rather than one of just expecting to over power it.

    I'm definitely open to other ways to obtain skill points if the systems are functional, I'm not sure I quite followed your proposal though in terms of whether you are saying they stack or don't stack?

    Can you only get one or the other? what's stopping players from obtaining both and then compounding the gap between high sp players and lower ones?
    • Like x 1
  20. Dev72 Dedicated Player


    There is a difference between being in there for hours, and immediately noticing the issue and correcting it by explaining how a mechanic works, or doing the mechanic yourself instead of trying to pew pew while showing the newbies who's boss. There have been several runs, where all it took was a little bit of direction after a wipe, and for some mysterious reason...the raid was completed. It may also take a little bit of swallowing one's pride and switch to that support role regardless of how one qued.

    It's the little things that make or break a run, and to be honest, if you follow that philosophy elitist or not, the runs behind omnibus are not that difficult or time consuming for that matter.

    The snobbish remark comes from the elitists who refuse to do those little things, therefore choose to not even participate.

    The toxicity behind the snobbish attitude comes from those who won't step down or do so begrudgingly from their ivory tower and teach what they themselves had to be taught.

    As for the incentive aspect (a subjective thought) and the amount of endgame veteran players inside omnibus runs is pure speculation.
    • Like x 2