JLD vs OC

While I have fond memories of OC, JLD is more recent and likely more familiar for a lot of newer users who may have straight up skipped OC. Bit of a shame really, while some might have ran the raids in LPVE I really think the 2 alerts are two of the best ones in the entire game.

I just enjoyed the drama. People putting way too much energy into this on both sides

Yup, people took something so simple and made it a debate of skilled vs the unskilled, Its hilarious

Yes you didn't know? Chill forced OC past all those other rounds.

Don't think ill ever forget this thread, This was a wake up call on the forums for me. I have been playing MMOs for going on maybe 17 years and never have I seen a player base so defeated.. It's amazing cause these shared thoughts are so far from people that you actually meet in game, like legit in my 10 years playing DC I have never not once met a player and heard them say this is to hard I don't like this, half the fun on Dc was failing and growing from it laughing at all the wipes to bosses like Black Adam and Brother Eye. "hearing things like I didn't like content cause it was to hard" I don't want to be man but Zeta Bot in inner would have retired so many people on here "My league broke cause we wasn't good enough to beat it" This isn't me bashing anyone this is legit comments made in this thread . I never seen so many participation award wanting players in any video game or in real life its very strange. I can't picture playing football and asking the other teams coaches to take a player out the game that I can't beat or defend, even better requesting that the basketball goal rim is lowered so everyone can dunk.

Like you may think i'm a horrible mean or not understanding person in game but a player like you in the past, I would have took time to teach you the game and how to slow everything down that's happening in that moment. MMO's are a product of the players around you.

Yep! I'm a new-ish player relatively (2 years, started "for real" in December 2018) and personally voted JLD. Is Constantine part of it? Sure. However, I'd never been super into the character and had just gotten slightly interested when the episode came and it was actually the episode that really grew that interest in him rather than the other way around. I also enjoyed the banter and character of everyone and everything (Steve Trevor is permanently "Steve-o" in my mind) and all the interesting scenery and goings on. And JLD does have some level of challenge to it. Etrigan's fight can be infuriating at times, especially if you don't strike just the right energy with your group and their toons. Plus the platforming in the Shattered Gotham raid! It was also the first episode I was here for from the start of the hype and the opening of the episode itself, even being there to see Constantine get redone (looking back at his old model is crazy, what even is that?!). So not unlike these people's intense nostalgia, I have my own "old days" (relatively, the "old days" of my personal time and experience and journey in the game) nostalgia for JLD. I don't really care much about "winning" or whatever, though. Heck, I previously voted Teen Titans over JLD when they were against each other.
And anyone that's met me for a moment in the DCUO Discord or has looked at my list of toons knows I am OBSESSED with character creation. This is the creation of the character as a character and idea and their story and all that as well as their design. However, I also care about the game as a game. I love both making these characters and running out into the world with them and taking journeys with them. I often "hear" banter or reactions my characters and the Iconics would have with each other. For me, going out into the world with these characters, truly getting a feel for them and my ideas, and having these journeys with my characters is itself important for said character creation. If I only ever did the design, I wouldn't really have my characters the same way, the way in which I love them. I can't have just one, even if we approach it solely from the character creation aspect of my love of the game. And the idea that it's the newer players so focused on the looks they degrade everything else and the older players not being concerned with the looks is a bit silly to me. Kinda like a smaller scale version of how every "older generation" is always annoyed with and nitpicking every "new/younger generation," who in turn get cynical and bitter towards them. The "back in my day" thing. Trying to pit these two aspects of the game against each other is silly. Losing either would be detrimental to the other, because it's an MMO, a kind of game for which these two things are both pillars. What we need is balance.
For the challenge thing, I am not the kind of video game player for major challenges at all times. I like to chill and have fun and push myself at my own rate and standards and in my own ways, but I do still like to do that pushing. I think the main or "basic" or whatever parts should be some sorta middle ground where they're somewhat challenging for these sorts of players but also accessible and doable for them. Basically comes down to balance. I do also think there should be bigger challenges for those that want them. One sect of the population should not be left in the dust and abandoned, regardless of which it is. Nor is any reason for playing or enjoying the game any better or more valid than any other. I've heard there are WOW players that mostly are just there for the in-game economy and selling and buying things and I'm sure we have our fair share of those, too (though I kinda pity them for the economy they get to work with lol). In terms of favorite episodes, we all have different reasons for our feelings towards each episode. There are several I didn't vote during specifically because I wasn't here for either episode in them and couldn't really give much of an opinion.
I was pretty excited when this first started because it seemed fun and interesting and I was genuinely curious. But.... internet gonna internet -.-

Well if they want to satisfy both sides ideally they take the content/difficulty/structure of OC since it won and make it a a constantine jld themed episode or whatever those people like.

HA! OC brought people 'together'...that's ironic. More like it made the groups more tribal and clique-y, alienating a lot of players. Not saying hard raids are NOT a good thing, but to say OC was a unifying force in the playerbase is not really accurate.

I'd agree with Zoe, that now we have 'elites' for those that want the extra challenge, the 'normal' raids don't need to be THAT hard (don't need to be cakewalks either...we've got 'event' runs for that).

One thing that Dox did right, same as US was there was the side boss variable that made it so some groups who wanted could add additional challenge by CHOICE in reg. Too easy closing the side tunnels?...fine, leave them open and have an extra challenging feat to work on. Can't handle that?...close the side tunnels for an easier run and get the feat later. Nexus kind of had this as you could split the team and close both side bosses at once, however I think that sometimes ended up in losing loot depending on how far you were on the map.

There is only 1 Steve-O.

Oh but when a majority of the community said they voted for JLD just out of spite for the hell of it? Yeah tell me the poll isnt "rigged". I respect everyone's views and opinions but when people openly admit to skewing the results out of spite makes the whole damn thing invaluable. OC has some of the best most engaging content this game has ever had and it's been 7-8 years and nothing has come close to that experience for me yet. That says something. I'm glad you enjoyed other content though.

Just because one person said he did it doesn't mean everyone did it. I didn't see anyone other than here saying they did it to spite people. Which is also very wrong.

Guys all in all, this post wasnt meant to go to war. I could have worded the topic different but this was more or so just a fun jab at the rigged poll at the time. Everyone has different opinions and different experiences. I dont hate on the players that couldnt be here during DCs prime. That's not their fault. I also hope that the developers look through this and understand the different views people have on the game and help have some structure. Origin Crises was the perfect example of having one raid that was both beatable by casual and elite depending on how your group wanted to achieve victory. For the players that wanted a challenge, Epic Odyssey was the way to go. For the casuals and for the ones that weren't quite ready yet for the challenge, you had the side rooms to take the bosses down one by one. So simple yet so satisfying and loved by a majority of the community. That's all I'm saying. That content structure was amazing and the mechanics alone required teamwork, communication, and the feeling of success with such an epic feat was honestly a milestone at the time in the game. The feeling of beating Nexus and Paradox were so surreal at the time. That type of content to me is what brings players together. This wasnt suppose to be a toxic debate. But I hope the developers again, can take a look at this thread and understand how future content structure can work to achieve mutual satisfaction within the community.

I've seen 4+ on the forums alone. And also obsidians 800+ people that voted from his following. Ofcpurse I dont condone it but all I'm saying is if OC has a following who will vote out of spite and not experience, then there are more, I promise you. I wasnt trying to force my opinion on anyone so if that was the outcome of all this, then I apologize. But my point still stands in my above post

I see your point, don't worry. I think both sides are wrong to go to war instead of having polite argument and accept each other opinions. Doing it out of spite or just cause you don't want either to win is wrong. Vote because of what you love the most, what you enjoy. Don't be one of those people who do that just to annoy others. It what divides the community in the first place

Im absolutly against difficult regular raids they should be easy ofcourse only elite should be difficult and by difficult i mean really difficult (paradox pre-nerf) and with adjustable side-bosses for extra rewards which paradox had all of it. Also we have artifacts now which made the game easyier especially for support rolls (page of destiny). Amulet of rao debuffing 7 enemys by around 15% damage output and so on.

Also the devs need to make the jobs of support rolls harder on elite raids as i said before the 5 DPS solo support rolls setup and 10-15 minute elite raids really needs to stop.

We need complex and interesting raids not rushed raids back then those raids werent rushable for example FOS 2 was a super long raid and the transportation of the sun stone was amazing/fun the bosses were difficult and unique ( by requesting more difficulty i only mean elite versions )

The batcave raids were absolutly amazing !! someone that played those raids when they were difficult would know how fun raids can be in dcuo and how much potential dcuo has i hope the devs will focus on this topic more.

Yeah, I'm not even saying 'easy' for regs. Reg runs should still be 'wipe' able if mechanics are not followed or roles are ignored. No one wants 3 hours slugfests in reg, but having them so easy that they are practically unable to be wiped on means people will get worse...or CONTINUE to get worse at the game.

COUR is a decent example (although still pretty easy), in the fact that Trigon can still be 'tough' if you just want to stand in one spot, blast away at the boss and ignore mechanics or block and roll techniques to avoid the fireballs. Mordru to an extent even, as some people can't even be concerned to lunge or block out of the push mechanic and 3 or 4 bodies dropping from the sky at once can still wipe a run...although not much really.

I think most everyone is in agreement, as long as Elite is still in the mix...or ALWAYS in the mix, regs should be attainable by anyone who can either learn mechanics or can build themselves up to a point where mechanics matter a bit less....so doable by everyone. Elite should still be the challenge. Dox did not have the Elite option, but had the 'all bosses at once' EO style runs...which was unique at that time, which is one of the reasons I think most thought it was a 'great' raid. Take EO out of the mix or make the tunnels manditory to close and the raid was not all that much tougher than anything else at the time.

Cant disagree with that ill just hope they will listen and with the bracket list they should have a good viewpoint now on what the community wants.

I think DCUO should have the pollsite inside dcuo game , 1 vote per account per matchup.
A voting machine, that shows the matchup of the week bracket.
Instead of the poll in Twitter, which not alot people have access to and brings more votes then we have more of dcuo population. Which not alot people has twitter.
( example in nba2k game , the players can go to a machine & vote for matchups for their desire choice.)