In you Opinion .... What makes a Great Elite Raid?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Ghost27Xog, Sep 23, 2021.

  1. Ghost27Xog Active Player

    This topic is sprinkled up here and there throughout the forum.

    I was wondering ... What makes an Elite Raid Great?

    For me as an example, I thought that the Anniversary Elite Raid had the right combination of chaos mechanics , intensity and damage to bosses life progression. " Once it was properly adjusted.

    Doing the raid straight up.... No exploiting.

    And to add to that the rewards were on point.

    Once your group knew the mechanics it was a fun intense ride.

    So what's your opinion?? ... What makes a Great Elite Raid??
    • Like x 1
  2. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Anniversary was great. No death took us 6 hours and we enjoyed it entirely. Fgse was also awesome. Very different raids clearly. Length was right if you just went thru easily for both. Coue was just annoying to me. And too many bugs. Flash ones, fve was a good time.

    Mechanics make all the difference I'd say. There weren't any in coue and everything just felt cheesey. Fgse had great ones with reflect, a damage test, and even the mind control that most of us really hate was well implemented. Zues fight, same sentiment. Great mechanics and took a bit to find best setup. Variety is important as is having like 3 minimum boss fights. That was probably the one downside to fgse. The 2 mini bosses could have been bumped up a bit maybe?

    Solid post, looking forward to the conversation!
  3. Darth Piper Loyal Player

    When elite raids are nothing but some kind of "role check," they are no fun and are very limiting as to the groups you can form to run them. They often turn into cheese fests too. No, not everyone can and should be running elite raids... but I would rather do an elite raid that takes a little longer because people are doing the little things... mechanics, pickups, call-outs for skulls, etc... and have less-than-optimal burn than go into them with elitist pricks more interested in having a private parts measuring contest.

    Elite raids should have a good balance of mechanics, teamwork that requires communication, and traps/pitfalls for people who think that the only answer is "MOAR BURN." Things are the most fun when you have to figure out what's going on and solve the problems.
  4. Mentaldope40 Committed Player

    Mechanics that are not 1 shot, If you want to continue through the passage you must burn Joker's health before he kills Batman, while the room is filled with tear gas, so everyone's health is slowly deteriorating, while the healer needs to heal and the troll gives power while the tank can actually aggro the direction of the tear gas and consume it all. etc.
  5. Ghost27Xog Active Player

    An element that made a raids experience better for me was going off of body language or animation reads instead of red warnings. ( they are helpful tho when learning the fights)

    I know during the battle its hard to see them. But once you know them, the skill carries over very well for a lot of mechanics of the game.

    Another raid idea I thought had promise was "Hands of Fate".
    The interaction between different teams was fun.
    An open world element.
    The raid would get weird at times tho.
    And the"Ninja" looting was I believe was 1 reason we get our own loot choices now lol.
  6. KneelBeforeZodd Committed Player

    Mechanics, mechanics and mechanics. Raids that are just role demanding aren't cool as they become pretty much a artifact check and everyone who meets the criteria can beat them.

    In my opnion ToTD elite is a good example of a well designed elite raid (besides the Ares fight requiring 3 tanks (And at least 1 rage back in the day)), everything was pretty different from the normal version and there were multiple mechanics that required everyone to pay attention. DWFe is a good raid as well, but it didn't have as many new mechanics when compared to the normal version.
  7. Yvtq8k3n The 7 Well-Known Player

    Well, sadly I have to disagree;( So I will analysis every single elite raid and give my feedback according it.
    - FFe -> Terrible raid, the raid itself is a dps fiesta. I think the execution of this raid itself was a complete miss.
    - FVe -> Grod, again a dps fiesta. It has some interesting mechanics associated, but if you have good burn you have nothing to worry.
    - FVe -> 2nd Boss, it feels like a marathon. There is nothing special about it.
    - FVe -> 3nd Boss, it feels like a marathon. There is nothing special about it.
    - COUe -> Trigon, a dps fiesta again. Have good AEO burn and everything is alright!
    - COUe -> Eye, whats easier then a dps fiesta, but this time without adds?
    - COUe -> Mordru, a missing opportunity for a excellent encounter. For this boss to be epic the boss should attack the tank. The purple balls that he throws should be happening while he is targeting the tank and moving making him a bigger threat. Some kind of 360º laser move in such a limited area like this would have made this boss one of the best. I also enjoyed the supply drop mordru uses. It shouldnt matter how much burn you do, but if he dieing to fast there should be mechanics in place to punish it.
    - SFFE-> Brother Eye, in my opinion it was one of the best bosses of the raid. It had a fixed rotation of skulls and when the boss reached a certain threshold it would crazy and start messing that said rotation. In addition all skulls moves mattered, either be close to the group, spread or even block. However, the burn problem still resides there were groups of people that could kill brother eye even without completing a single rotation of skulls. If boss became Immune to damage while performing a skull attack, I belive this problem could have been mitigated and the experience would have been much more intersting for everybody.
    - SFFE-> Avatar of Meta, an intersting encounter. However, at some point, 90% groups would glinch it. If the healer stayed in the air the charges wouldn not happen drasticaly reducing this boss dificulity from hard to event version. A good grounding could have fixed this problem, however if the charges where based on aggro table it could have made this encounter much more interresting and less exploidable.
    - SFFE-> Emmisary Paradox, got no complaints here. There were tons of ways players could beat this and from my runs no exploits were used, so good job!
    - SFFE-> Paradox Kracken, saddly this boss suffers the same treatement as Brother Eye. There were groups that the burn was so great that not a single phase of tentacles would pop up. Making this boss literally a cake walk. A ton of group, kind of cheesed this encouter by putting the tank stationary on the adds spawn while the dps's would just burn the boss. I think a tank should always be required for a boss, but again this is just my personal opinion.
    - FGSE -> Grail, this encouter was terrible for the game and due to this encouter I was forced to quit this game. Forcing a mechanic behind a payblock is wrong. The 23 augs requirement was a ridiculous manuaver forcing players to either trade or buy this from the MC, made me quit the game. I was more then willing to replace one of my abilitys to something that would allow me to suvive the omega beam either with phase dodge, amazonian deflection or clown box but instead of skill and good timing we are encouraged to buy the 23 augs because none of thoose options work. The Grail Omega beam burn check is still ridiculous and encourages dps fiesta instead of group skill. Not everything is bad, the mc was an intersting mechanic along with the hammers on the floor. However the 23 augs were uncessary and made to my eyes, just made this raid lose so much intersting and to be be consider a complete failure. - FGSE -> Zeus, since I quit the game I didnt find any will to give it a proper try. To my eyes FGSE is like a unicorn some people say is great, but I never saw it.
    -> FBe -> You thought Coue was easy? I guess you got it wrong. FBe beats the cake. Just pew pew and you get out of it in less then then ten minutes.
    -> ClockE -> An intersting raid, saddly I didnt experience it much. When this raid was released US was a Laggy world. Everytime I tried to login into the game everything was flying into the walls. (Harry The wizard was that yo?)
    -> DME-> 1st Boss, please why is this even a "BOSS". Its sad to say this, but I dont think room mechanics should be consider a boss.
    -> DME -> 2nd Boss, prob the best boss of the all raid. Its not even a great boss. However, I will give credit for the rock mechanics and the one shot. However, I think this boss is too plain, specially towards the tank as it is is just a tank and spank boss.
    -> DME -> LB, a boring boss. Most of the subbosses dont even do their respective mechanics and even when they do them, they are so tuned down that it doesnt even matter. Barbatus boss itself again is the tank and spank but this time no couters work and u perma roll cause thats how u dodge ranged moves. Barbatos caging was also uncessary, frustrating and lame. -> PCE -> Hawkgirl, its ok. Supressor was anoying but managable. The boss moves were easy to predict. An overwall ok boss.
    -> PCE -> LB, missed feelings about this encouter. Why some boss mechanics are 1 shot mechanics and others arent? Made no sence to me. I enjoyed it, but drowned beam should be one shot even if you roll or blocked. Red Death was also not that threatening. To me this encouter was like an amazing cake, but half eaten.
    -> MOMe -> 1st Boss, it was all right. Not my favourite, but required good group coordination and even added the sunblade to the mix. Making it an enjoyable experience.
    -> MOMe -> 2n Boss, again a good encouter. It had interesting mechanics associated it was a test to all roles. My only complain is poison ivy skull is not a completly one shot.

    (I could do more but this should be enough) Just a few notes:)
    Hive -> Deathstroke (my fav encouter)
    MachE -> M fav raid
    • Like x 1
  8. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Well crap, I'm letting that trump my comment. I wasn't commenting on ease tho really, just the design aspects of them.
  9. Ghost27Xog Active Player

    True True... "No Death Feat" took us 5 hrs to get retrying over and over at the last boss alone. Lol
    Grail her self was a good fight.
    The spinners though were frustrating lol.
    I guess for me when I saw the overwhelming spinners covering the whole floor affecting the amazing battle with her and they ads , it made the raid too frustrating. I'm not a fan of taking away too much of the real estate a mechanic. Maybe for brief times its ok.
    Lastly finding out that groups were having to gather in the bottom right corner to complete the fight made me think this was a bad design. Lol
    • Like x 1
  10. Ghost27Xog Active Player

    Wow I know right lol
    • Like x 1
  11. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Haha, yeah that part was a bit much. But also caused a lot of laughter while we were in there screaming get off my damn head
  12. Yvtq8k3n The 7 Well-Known Player

    Ups I meant to tag the OP xd
    • Like x 1
  13. Essential Exobyte Well-Known Player

    When they all (all elites) get removed from the game.
  14. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Hoping to not get into an argument and just have a debate/ conversation but would love to hear why you feel this way? Do you think they should raise the difficulty of normal like back in the day where there was just one level of difficulty and it was either get good or don't play?

    If not, do you think normal should also go away and we all just do event level or something? I know in my click, normal can barely present a challenge for our 200ish sp/ 120 arti farmer toons. We've actually started to run elites with them for more of a challenge
  15. Essential Exobyte Well-Known Player

    Well, for a little bit of debate, maybe, I liked how hop1 was done for the raids. There was Necropolis which was easy and had a speed feat which took coordination to do. Art was a middle ground as it had many feats attached and also had a group split section, had the artifact feat (btw got that first run without knowing that feat existed). The league hall was the tough raid and took complete skill, coordination, and having stats to survive that place.

    You had a choice of running something that was easy, medium, or difficult for which you assign them. Maybe they are all easy, but I label them as such.

    Adding in ‘elite’ is a very bad connotative word when it comes to games. This doubles the instance, loot locks both, death counter, one shots, very high health pools and not much to do else wise. Some content was good like desecrated cathedral as that took actual skill and roles to complete.
  16. zNot Dedicated Player

    So you would enjoy Elite content more if it was more about Rolls and skills (like we had in the past) and not just single target nuking it with 5 DPS and a buff troller?
  17. Essential Exobyte Well-Known Player

    Not saying I would run it, but yeah, it would be better than cheesy burn and one shots. If I wanted that, I’d go back to call of duty and play it on realistic difficulty, aka 1 bullet and you get red screened. I loved the mechanics back in 2014/2015 era in hop1, af2, wotl2 as you couldn’t just burn through it all.

    Today we have fttf with the boss as a sparring target. If it were not for a few ads, a tank wouldn’t even be needed. That’s how sad it is today. And what is elite for today…no more mechanics and it’s just more defense. I’ve done fttfe and it’s the same as fttfr.
    • Like x 1
  18. zNot Dedicated Player

    I absolutly agree with you this is bothering to me aswell (im a Tank) and i dislike the DPS centric designs heavily.

    at top end groups with that amount of high ST nuke these „elite“ players have and EoG Spamm alongside other things and the gap between those that use these tactics vs those that dont is a massive day and night difference.
  19. TheLQ-DCUO Loyal Player

    What makes a great Elite raid in DCUO in 2021?

    Room mechanics. 'Do this mechanic or you/group will take large damage or be KO'd'.

    Mechanics that often require co-ordination with the group. Ideally bosses should have more than one distinct phase.

    Copy/paste mechanics through the raid or having no differences between regular and elite doesn't work anymore.

    Let's go through some examples.

    FGSE last boss - Co-ordinating cage breakouts, especially during last phase with Wonder Woman NPCs. First time I think NPCs have been important in a raid boss in a while, since Shazam in SGe or Superman/Luthor in DWF. Having to block when going 'big' here as well.

    CUe last boss - You had to get used to the pools and positioning fast here, or this would cause issues fast. Even one player doing something wrong here, moving near another colour pool/player could cause large damage over time to the group.

    PCe first boss - The red balls. You had to co-ordinate the group and have all group members be hit by a small red ball as its timer ran out, otherwise the big red ball would KO.

    PCe last boss. Lots of things you had to do. Go to another player that you were tethered to within a certain time. Go to the ring of light when it appeared. Block Drowned laser.

    FIe second boss. Lava phase, activating the cogs while shielded and then KOing the weapon adds. You had to pass that or it was basically a wipe. This fight had multiple phases too, making it interesting.

    SGe Madness mechanic, this was particularly interesting if going for the feats. Also the Mark of Cain stack marker mechanic, having to group up to split incoming damage.

    HIVEe last boss gas phase. This was a cool aspect of the fight, you had to defeat the adds and place them on volcanoes around the room to turn off the gas, all while watching out for Terra's skull attacks. The gas did damage over time so the longer this took the more issues that could occur if players started dying to various mechanics.

    It's difficult to look much into the past, due to artifacts and other changes the game isn't the same as it used to be. Content design and room mechanics are really important to me at least in an engaging piece of content.
  20. Qwantum Abyss Dedicated Player

    For me, simply put, its required or “forced” communication.
    The need to be on mic for n the moment info/directions etc is key.
    This is an MMO, its designed to have communication and elite should require it.

    An example (maybe a poor one but it comes from some of my best DCUO memories)
    Prime battle ground at relevancy was a beast, loved it. And if you did it at relevancy (league run, lfg, etc) i guarantee you know what a pancake is and i guarantee you know what to do what someone says it.
    How do i know this? Because u were on mic talking and/or listening at a min.
    It was bordeline required.
    Same applies to popcorn (10 bonus pts if u can name the raid) here a hint, it shouod actually be fresh in your mind.
    Yes, FOS2 was a great raid at relevancy and you were on mic talking and/or listening. Why? Because it was a tough go. You needed to communicate.
    Back in those days, prime, FOS2, gates, wave etc everything was called an communicated.
    I want them to get back to that.
    I came back on a brand new acct (lost my original in a bad identity theft as i have mentioned multiple times) midway through the BoP content.
    I have never on e had a reason to cut a mic on (other than goofing around with league mates) and have been full elite from BoP to current.
    Elite is simply too easy IMO if a mic aint a requirement.
    There should be a need o have one and be using it to properly coordinate whats happening, where to stand, etc.
    Heck, elite aside and just specific to roles, i remember healers saying “ok stand up” and trolls saying “ok, infinite power, go ham” wanna know why? Beause they were communicating when its safe to stand up AND letting you know NOT to waste a soda when u do cause they got you. Same for trolls, its to let us know is cool to blow our power bars for a min cause they r poppin a super for us.
    That level of coordination USED to be a requirement. Now days…….. i go into elite raids an ppl ask if we know the mechanics and i say yes even if its my 1st run. I dont need to know the mechanics to go in the 1st time because A) i will learn it fast B) its not hard enough to be a relevant wuestion in most cases C) if i do miss something i ask and get clarity.

    So for me yes, its simply enough of a mechanic challenge that mics are required.
    No mic = no join the group. Thats how elite should be with obvious exceptions where typing is the only
    Option in which case u disclose upfront and pre-coordinate (one of the best tanks i ever knew was deaf and mute)