If you're not going to stop feats in TCs...

Ofc a good player with 50SP will be better than a bad player even if the bad player has 410 SPs. As i said in my reply, "saying that someone with 50SP will be as good as someone with 200SP AT THE SAME SKILL LEVEL is [expletive]".

Someone can easily buy a 400SP account and not know what is a DPS and that's not what the discussion is about. The discussion is: X with 50SP will do less damage than X with 200 SP, X with 50SP will heal less than X with 200 SP, etc. If you say that's not true, then you are saying Skill Points aren't working, the equation they use to calculate damage/healing etc isn't working, or that mathematics are a lie.

One thing is being able to beat content with **** stats, another thing are stats not changing anything.

Yet again this only matters if you're a competitive player and those roughly represent like what? 3-5 % of DCUO's community?

Hell, how many new players know what you're talking about? They don't have the time to bother with SP, ya think they'll bother with performance?

There's always been grinding feats but for some reason NOW its bothering some folks? No, this is just OP being bitter about TC feats and trying to vent his frustration through other elements of the game.

This thread makes zero sense, TC feats are apparently too easy to get and are only available through a pay wall, right? That's an issue, right?

Now regular feats are not "interesting" enough, not "entertaining" enough and take to much of a grind to achieve.

Seriously, it's impossible to please everyone.

Unless some goon is holding you at gunpoint, no one is forcing you to get those feats, your arguments are simply invalid.

You don't want to do those grinding, boring feats? Simple, DON'T DO THEM! There will be no consequences for doing so, except losing the ability to have "401 SP" in your sig on the forums.

Here's a personal story with feats:

I don't like PVP, therefore I don't do PVP feats, am I losing on a potential edge over other players? Maybe, but do I give a [expletive]? NO.

Why? Because I can successfully run challenging content and maintain a decent competition without those feats.

If you want to be part of the 1%, take the grind that comes with it.

Enjoyable thread so far.

Would be better if there weren't so much of twisting dcuo history to fit one argument.

Do you have some problem with us leaving feedback for the devs or something? Are we committing treason by saying, devs, please alternate grindy feats with fun feats from time to time?

As for your other argument, how does that make my points invalid? No one forces anyone to do anything in this game. Does that mean that players should've just shut up and said nothing when the vendor costs for AoJ were through the roof? Should we have shut up and said nothing when the quark vendor was released and prices were even more insane than now?

This is feedback, you're also offering feedback. You either A. love crafting generator mods, B. don't craft them every episode, or C. don't care at all about skill points. We get that. Not everyone is like you. Some of us do want to be able to perform our roles at the pinnacle. Otherwise I might as well quit. Who wants to play and just be mediocre? Is that enough for you?

As for..."you don't need them." I've heard this a lot, but never seen any data to back it up. When comparing powersets maybe, I agree, someone playing electric in content suited for it, or rage in content suited for it, with less SP, can dominate someone with a weaker powerset or less skill even if they have more sp. But put 2 electric players side by side, or 2 rage players, or 2 earth players side by side, you're telling me the one with 2 times the sp won't dominate? I find that very hard to believe.

Can I have your permission to request the devs to make more interesting feats? Or is that against your little forum rulebook?

Generator mods always had feats?

Equipment mods always had feats?

Yes more is better.... but at some point.... not really.

There is something called a "saturation point".
It is when you reach a point where "more" is regarded as pointless.

If you come to me with a glass of water..... and I fill your glass using a 50 gallon container of water.....
WOW.... I gave you 50 gallons of water..... that is a LOT.

But not really.

But in the end.... all you have is your glass of water....
because once your glass is full......
any excess of water I pour into the glass does not matter.....
once your glass full... wether I used 1 gallon or 50 gallon to fill your glass......
at the end of the day you end up with a glass of water.

Once you reach the saturation point and the glass is full....
Any additional water I pour into it is wasted and does not matter.


If you keep players at full power with VIT only.....
How much more power can you give them thanks to Might/Power??

Once the Blue Power bar is full...... it does not matter if you give the player and extra 10 000 power thanks to Might/Power.
The Blue bar is already full. It cannot be MORE full then full.

The same with Healers... If you already keep people at full health with Resto.....
how much more extra health do you really need to give??

Once the Health bar is full..... it does not matter if you can give an extra 10 000HP.
Again... the Health bar cannot be more full then full.
Any extra HP you give past full ends up being wasted and does not really matter.

As for Battle Roles or Hybrid Roles.... I hate those with a passion and strongly discourage people to do that.

I keep on seeing people on the Forums saying how they are awesome Battle Role......
But in game..... I have not seen ONE good Battle Role..... ever.

In Game....
Battle Healer = Healer that barely heals and that does poor damage
Battle Troll = Trolls that barely give out Power and does poor damage
Tank is probably the one exeption in this case

Heck.... I have a Classic VIT Troll.....
and toooooooo often I will see some other Troll set as a Battle Troll that barely gives Power and that barely does damage.
Heck.... many many times I will do MORE damage with my Classic VIT Troll.... then the supposed Battle Troll.

Which is one of the reasons why I prefer to solo Troll.
Toooo often the other Troll tries to do damage and ends up being more power hungry then the DPSes and usually does poor damage.

Sorry for the long post.

I am developping a theory...

I am starting to believe that Great Players have 50SP and **** stats.....
and that Garbage Players NEED to 300+SP and MAX Stats.

If you are a Great Player... you can play the game fine no matter how many SP or how many Stats you have.
If you are a Great Player..... you will NOT obscess over your Stats and over how many SP you have.
If you are a Great Player.... you will do fine with 50SP. You will NOT obscess over getting every single SP in the game.
Heck..... if you are a Great Player.... you will carry the group on your shoulders even if you have 50SP.

But Garbage Players NEED to have MAX SP.
So Garbage Players will obscess over every little SP because the NEED those to play the game.
Garbage Players NEED HIGH SP as a crutch because they cannot play the game if they do not have MAX SP and MAX Stats.

But that is just a theory.

More stats is better?? Mathematic is a lie?? Check my previous post where I mention the "saturation point".
Sure in general a DPS that does 1000 damage is better then a DPS who does 100 damage.
But if they fight enemies that have 90 HPs...... does it matter if one does 100 damage and the other does 1000 damage??

Well, your theory may have some flaws . Select Few and Elusian's group reached the highest rounds of SM (the harderst content in the game) and are almost always the first ones to beat elite and get the harderst feats of the game, if you look at them, they all have 350+ SPs and try to get every feat as possible. Just something to think about and help you develop your theory.

My theory is: Some players aren't capable of getting the MAX SPs and will try to make them mean less while defending ways of getting them in a way that doesn't requires skill, so they can feel like they aren't [expletive]. Great players will try to have the maximum efficiency as possible, because they know everything they can get will help them.

I'll stop right here, this topic isn't about how much SPs matter or about telling if someone is garbage or anything else related. It's about the crafting feats. I'm sorry for going off topic for so long.

I agree mostly.. but I have 1 toon.. so I play him 100% of the time.. any drop in stats, even with league proficiency, white mod/generator expiry etc I will notice straight away - because I get used to what he can do as I increase his stats.

as a random example, if i'm killing certain common ads, subconsciously my brain will pick up if he takes longer to knock it out lol

A great player with more SP will be a greater player

A garbage player with less SP will be a more garbage player

LOL

But... how can you tell if someone in a group is actually a Great Player?? or even a good one???

How can you tell if he was just carried by the group or not???
Maybe he was carried by the group all this time??

Which is how by the way we have Garbage Players with 300+SP.
They are in a strong League with their friends... and get carried to the top by their friends.

Also the game is much much much easier when you play with your friends.
When I was playing with my friends.... it was much easier to play the game and complete missions then playing with a PUG.
And my friends were not even Great Players... they were competent at best.
Sadly they all left the game.... and it was back to the PUG life once more.

But anyway...... will keep on working on my "theory".

It makes sense.... doesn't it??

I feel sorry for newer players, especially, it must be crazy daunting to see so many feats to try and get

My opinion, is do your best.. play the game and play it how you enjoy it, strive for the best, of course, but don't kill your enjoyment of the game.. its all about balance and playing it how you enjoy it (for some feats are like the game itself.. for others are they are an annoyance)

It's an issue of how long it takes you to get them to max power, max health or how long you can survive as a tank.

What is your saturation point? Do you honestly believe someone that doesn't even have enough sp to unlock full crit heals (which is 60) is going to be able to compete as a healer in tough content where the entire group is taking heavy damage? Or are you just making a joke for comedic effect?

How long will it take my nature healer to get everyone back to full health after the tentacles (or the Harpy attacks in GOM, etc.) have 4 players down to 10% for example, if I don't have enough power to cast more than 3 or 4 heals? Will people die in the meantime? How long will my shields last compared to someone that has dom maxed along with resto?

I don't have the figures, so I'm honestly asking, but I don't think that 200 sp cut it anymore to perform well as support in Elite.

How long would my fire tank last if I don't have enough sp to unlock full health and healing crits? Would having full resto benefit my healing in and let me survive 2 or 3 seconds longer while the healer is scrambling for power? Would full dom make my shield stand up to one-shots better and survive?

Power seems to make a bigger difference in the game than people care to admit. Can you pass normal content with minimum sp? Yes. Can a coordinated group with very few sp get through the hardest elite raids? I doubt it, but possibly. But they will definitely struggle and probably wipe a lot.

Of course, this thread is merely about requesting the devs to offer more variety in feats. If they don't want to, so be it. More variety is a good thing, and if they want to give us so many feats we can never get them all, that's an option, but I don't know what effect it will have on people.

How will you know if you're a great player if you're always at the bottom of the scoreboard though?

How will you know if you're a great player if you get knocked out because the boss's attacks eat through your health like paper?

How will you know (this is starting to sound like a song, lol) if the group wiped because they're stupid or because your heals simply weren't strong enough/you didn't have enough power to spam enough heals to keep them alive?

How will you know if the group's power is low because you don't have enough stats or because they have crappy rotations, lol?

How long??
The answer is 52.
Wether it's 52 seconds or 52 minutes...... in the end the answer is always 52.

As for the comedic effect... I would say it's half and half. Half comedy and half serious.

As you say... once you have 60SP you can unlock the full Crit heal.
If you have only 50SP... is it that big of a difference?? You can still unlock some of the Crit heal. For some.... that is enough.

When we fail to complete tough content...... or any content for that matter.....
It never has anything to do with the amount of SP or the amount of Crit Heal one has.
Usually in a fail group.... even if you gave 300SP to everyone in the group.... you would still end up in a fail group.

Sad... but that is how it is.

How will I know??
I always ask Trex and he tells me what is what.

But seriously.... you read the Battlefield.
It is something I usually say when we talk about the scoreboard... but it applies here.

You read the Battlefield and you will see if the Healer is spamming heals when the group is full health.
You will see if the Troll is spamming Group Power heal. Or not using Group Power heal at all.
And all that good stuff.

When I asked how can you tell.... it was in relation to someone having 300+SP.

Tooooooo many people will see someone with 300+SP and assume it is a skilled player.

But the truth is untill you see him play.... the amount of SP tells you in no way if the player is skilled.
Because you have no way to know if he got those SP by being skilled..... or if he was carried by his League.

Seriously, Magneto. Someone who has killed 5,000 reapers has to be OP.