Icon and Rocket

Probably already mentioned, Blue Marvel has a great chance of being added to the mainstream due to Monica being added. BM knocking Sentry to another dimension never gets old. BM beat down a lot of heavyweights. He is the Goku of Marvel.

I love Adam Brashear, Blue Marvel. I hope he gets added to the Marvel Main stream as well.

My worry with him, though, is that he may be TOO POWERFUL. I've read his some of his comics and to my knowledge the dude has NO weaknesses, unlike Icon. It would be VERY hard to get him on the Big Screen like that.

He is powered by Anti-Matter, too.

He's quite the unique Marvel character.

Interesting read. I can definitely see Icon having his own movie or something.

Regarding Augustus Freeman IV / Icon and Slavery....

https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-wouldn-t-an-immortal-black-superhero-have-just-ende-1785892460

“So, if a dark-skinned alien with Kryptonian-on-Earth levels of power landed in the Deep South in 1839 and found himself a slave, he’d just break the chains binding him and others, right? Not necessarily.

A comment thread onmy piece about Icon #16popped up, explaining why someone never got in the Milestone Media comic-book series after wondering Augustus Freeman didn’t use his superhuman abilities to overthrow the system of chattel slavery he grew up under:”

“I couldn’t stop thinking about this question. I don’t presume to speak for Dwayne or anybody who was at Milestone past or present but I think this is the classic problem of “why don’t superheroes fix everything?””

“Of course, the real-world answer is most often that this would be boring and break the dramatic tension of the fiction being built. Creators have leaned on in-story loopholes to wave off the fix-everything question, like Hitler having the Spear of Destiny and Japanese prime minister Tojo having a piece of the Holy Grail. (There was a latter-day explanation that those leaders used those artifacts to make it so that Superman, Green Lantern, and other ultra-powerful heroes active during WWII would fall under Axis mind control if they operated in territories controlled by the Allies’ enemies.)

A while back, I wrote about an issue ofAll-Star Squadronwhere the Green Lantern of the 1940s destroyed a telepathically-projected facsimile of Japan. That issue took another tack at dealing withthe fix-everything question, positing that the psychological weight of singlehandedly killing millions of people and ending a war would break someone’s mind.”

“As another commenter says, there was likely some element of social conditioning to Augustus’ reticence to singlehandedly overthrow slavery. That’s hinted at in the panels when Icon says “I helped who I could. Did as much as I thought was possible.” Icon likely wanted just to live as normal and unassuming a life as he could.

Another thing to consider is the fact that, unlike Superman, Icon was an adult lifeform when he came to Earth, a mediator in an interplanetary utopian alliance called The Cooperative.”

“There were prime-directive type rules in The Cooperative about interfering in the affairs of less-advanced planets. If I recall correctly, he retained full consciousness of his former life. Even if he didn’t, maybe there was enough of an inkling of the idea of non-interference in his human mind to hold him back. Why does he fight in World War I & II and later work for justice as a mere human, then? Probably because, as detailed in other issues of the series, that’s what felt right.”

“Future issues of Icon showed parts of the main character’s past, from falling in love with a human woman and dealing with their genetic incompatibility to being homesick for his native planet. While testifying about his life on Earth, Icon says he only discovered the depths of his invulnerability after the Civil War had started.”

“But, all of that is inside the fiction. I think the real world answers to the question are more important, like the fact that heroes who re-order the world/universe in their own image don’t often stay feeling like heroes. Even interventions that seem relatively minor and/or altruistic, like ending slavery, would have exponentially bigger ripple effects. If a flying black man starts tearing apart plantations, then slave-owners might start killing other black people indiscriminately for fear of more metahumans in their midst. And the ripples extend ever outward, resulting in a Dakota Universe that doesn’t look much like our own. The catalyst for Milestone Media was to create a superhero offering that reflected the reality it was created in, not a radically different alternate universe.

Icon is an alien who was stranded amongst humanity, grew to love it, and later withdrew from it. Both in the fiction and outside of it, he’s designed to be a hero who lives with us, not above us. Raquel dreamt up the heroic alter ego to inspire people, not rule over them.”

I have personally seen this issue pop up on youtube and in other places regarding Icon and his place in Comic Book History regarding slavery. This article by Mr. Evan Narcisse explains things well enough for me.

I have no issue with a Black Superman, I would like to see him Black for a reason though. Hiring Michael B. Jordan as Superman, then Chloe Moretz as Lois Lane would be tokenism at it's worst. It's hiring a black actor for shock value and that's it. If you have a Black Clark Kent who suffered racism constantly growing up in predominantly white Kansas, having him confront the problem of having to help people who may hate him because of the colour of his skin would be a compelling story.

While I agree with the unbolded part of your post, the GREEN part is what I have an issue with.

Warner Brothers Media - "Hey let's introduce a BLACK SUPERMAN........let's simply turn Clark Kent Black and drop him into Rural Kansas. We can use THIS to sell tickets AND say that we're a WOKE Corporation".................................

Such a story would only serve to placate SOME of the masses NOW....a proverbial band-aid on a gaping wound of Slavery AND Racism / oppression in the world.

To REALLY address the issue of a "Black Superman" why not simply introduce ICON / Augustus Freeman IV? One who - according to his DC comics - actually GREW UP in it, from 1839 through the Civil War, TWO World Wars and on up until today.



Not saying YOU, Quantum, but it is a weak argument I hear from some folks that keep trying to ignore Icon and Rocket.

It is UNFATHOMABLE that DC is trying to bring the FAUX Superman to the Big Screen instead of Icon.

And the "But Icon is not well-known" is weak and a lame excuse.

I'm not ignoring them, Icon would be fantastic. I'm reacting to the news as I've seen it presented.

I apologize if I wasn't clear but I wasn't stating that you, per se, was ignoring them.

It's just baffling that DC is seemingly sitting on a Treasure Trove with these four



....an ORIGINAL "Black Superhero with Krypton-Level Powers"....his partner (and conscience) in Rocket.....a Tony-Stark level intellect in Hardware and of course Static.

These four DO exist in DC Universe and ALL FOUR have met Superman and other DC heroes



In THIS pic this is the "Before Engagement" standoff between Icon's "Shadow Cabinet" and Superman's "Justice League".

The lady to Icon's right is "Iota"...she is DC's Atom or Marvel's Ant Man. She is a self-made Billionaire but ALSO a hopeless Kleptomaniac lol...........

She is brilliant but has a penchant for stealing Abrams Tanks and other hardware, shrinking them into her "pocket book" and then enlarging them and using them in combat against her foes.

The lady to Icon's left is Agent Donner. She has invulnerability and near-Wonder Woman strength.

Next to Agent Donner is Hardware.

Next to Hardware is the unique character "Twilight". His body is composed of reality-warping material and during his confrontation with Flash in this epic comic he actually ENVELOPS Flash in his body - rendering him useless for 2 min and taking him off the battlefield.

Next to Twighlight is a Magic user but I cannot recall the lady's name atm.

At the end of the lineup is Agent Blitzen. I know - Dwayne McDufie must have been feeling "Christmassy" when he named Agent Donner and Agent Blitzen but Blitzen's power is Super QUICKNESS. She is fast too but not nearly as Flash.

Her exception is her ability to change DIRECTIONS at the same rate as Flash, though.

Iron Butterfly is the lady in armor. She is Palestinian and can manipulate all metal to her will.

Not pictured is "Payback". He gained the power to shift into a monster with sharp claws - claws that have almost killed Icon. He retains his senses and mind during this transformation. He is one of the Original Bang Babies.

All of these Milestone / DC heroes and heroines are SO UNIQUE........

Back to Icon - Not giving ANY publicity or consideration for the Big Screen but INSTEAD "recycling Superman to be a Black Dude" is a bit disingenuous.

Look - I get that part of Calvin Ellis / Val Zod's existence is linked to a tribute to none other than former President Barack Obama. That is AWESOME.

But this whole thing smacks more of extreme ignorance and indifference rather than Racism in ignoring Icon being that he was created in 1993 and is more ORIGINAL.

Val Zod was created/born in 2009.

If I walked into DC Comics TODAY I am certain that I will NOT encounter Racism. This I believe.

Now INDIFFERENCE?

IGNORANCE?

This is my concern.

Mix Indifference and Ignorance together and it is easily construed to be something far more sinister.

I'll dig deeper into the thread in the am, but my answer to your first question is "pandering". Capitalism doesn't really concern itself with real equality and justice. It's only interest in diversity is reaching new demographics to monetize them. A black version of a white character is "good enough" to businesses who are only interested in looking socially responsible (the appearance) and want to invest the minimal effort for maximum profits. This is why I mentioned in the other thread, I want to see diverse identities represented but want authentic depictions of these groups of people instead of shallow white characters repainted black or brown. Or whatever other minority.

I'd 1000% rather see Icon instead of Ellis. When I heard about that project I rolled my eyes and that was my first thought.

Before I continue posting more Icon and Rocket panels -

The two of them have seemingly developed a mutual respect for one another - as evidenced from Dakotaverse's "merger" into the larger DC / Metropolis Continuum, starting in Icon #15, SuperBoy #7, Man of Steel, Hardware AND Steel's comics at that time - to their epic showdown in Icon #16 and FINALLY all the way to Icon's Shadow Cabinet confrontation with Supe's Justice League - in the last couple of threads.

This spans about thirteen years - from Icon and Rocket's first issue in 1993 - up until this comic issue above, from the mid 2000s.

As I think about this particular panel above - right after Icon knocked Superman out of the Watchtower - I would've LOVED to see where Icon was heading with his conversation with Kal-El....

Right AFTER "...you have the POTENTIAL to inspire the people of Earth to maturity - even greatness. You - ".......

As I think about Icon's / Dwayne McDuffie's - word choice here - "POTENTIAL"...."Potential" is defined as - "having or showing the CAPACITY to become or develop into something in the future".....

Doesn't necessarily mean that - at the time - Icon thinks that Humans are / were "There, yet" - in their maturity and their various "ISMS"....

I believe Icon was / is speaking towards Humanity's divisions and strife - in regards to Racism, Sexism, Ageism and other "isms" and assuming an "Accepted" position among Icon's "Cooperative" that he speaks of in his Comics.

The "Cooperative" from Icon and Rocket's Comics - were in my view - an "Intergalactic Supreme Court" that settled disputes on a Galactic scale, among other things.

This "Cooperative" also judged planets and civilizations based off of their past history and how those civilizations treated one another.

Earth - evidently - FAILED in their assessment, at least so far.

If the "Cooperative" deemed a civilization "Fit and Worthy" then they would be allowed to join the other thousand or so planets and civilizations.

Earth - at THIS particular time in the Comics - was NOT there, yet. This is evidenced in Icon's comics where - right after he and Rocket left for his homeworld - The Cooperative judged Earth based off of Icon's depiction of Slavery and the ramifications it had on society - even to this day, in the Comics.

The "Bolded" text is the voice of a Cooperative Judge, while Icon and Rocket are off of Earth heading towards his homeworld:





I believe this is where Icon was leading Superman to in this conversation that was cut short.

I believe Icon was about to lecture Superman on doing MORE.....whatever that "MORE" was going to lead Superman to.

One has to realize that Icon - even at THIS point in the Comics - was STILL an unknown and this is a shame. A being as powerful as Superman - but, hence - IGNORED in the Comic sense of things. He doesn't "Exist"....he's an "Invisible Man"



In this intimate conversation with Kal-El he is about to lecture Superman on more things that he could do to become a more acceptable civilization in The Cooperative's Eyes and their conversation is cut short.

Granted - change doesn't happen overnight - in Comics and certainly NOT in Real Life - but one has to think that this conversation is where Icon was leading Superman into.

DC needs to feature ICON and Rocket more into it's Comic Continuum. I know that Milestone, supposedly - is renewing their comics. But it's not hard. Send Superman on a Honeymoon with Lois and let ICON take over as the Alpha in a Justice League story.

Let ICON and Rocket - as well as Batman, WW, GL, Flash, Vixen, etc - deal with a Darkseid invasion....Brainiac....Lex Luthor........

It's NOT hard. I'm certain that writers / creators OUTSIDE of Milestone KNOW about Icon and Rocket.

One brings about TRUE CHANGE when you feature ORIGINAL characters - especially ones that have existed in DC since 1993.

Bring Icon and Rocket in DC's MAINSTREAM.

Let's talk I'm interested in meeting up in game, we are both in the DMV

I'm on USPC, under Mace Cosmos HL Green Lantern. That is my main.

I also have toons under "Augustus Freeman4th" and one of my favorite Marvel characters "Doc SamsonMCU".

My Water toon is "Kloud Strife".

You can find me on USPC side under one of those 4 toons, Mace most of the time.

Doing a BRIEF intermission to bring to you a GREAT youtube video review of the NEW Icon and Rocket #1.





I was afraid that they would butcher these two unique characters but so far I am PLEASED with what I've read.

Time for Zach Snyder and James Gunn to GET BUSY

Yeah, I don't get why people want nerfed versions of Icon, the guy literally has no weakness, meanwhile people who never read a comic before want Calvin Ellis and Val Zod, both of which would easily die from bullets made from either Green or Gold Kryptonite unlike Icon, plus the best part about Icon is that he exists within the main DC Universe alongside Superman.

Thanks for your commentary on Icon.

As for his weaknesses - his writers built in an interesting character into Milestone (DC)'s lineup called "Payback". Payback is a young African American male that became a Bang Baby during the same event that gave Static HIS powers.

Payback has super strength...not near same level of Superman or Icon but his TRUE power is in his CLAWS...

These claws almost killed Icon in Issue number 2 or 3 I believe.

Also - during Icon's EPIC confrontation with Superman in Icon #16 Superman actually BLOODIES Icon's nose when they first attacked one another.





Also - during the same confrontation Icon actually ADMITS that Superman IS "Stronger" than he is but Icon is able to handle himself and end in a TIE with Superman because dude has been in BOTH WW1 and 2 as well as fighting for the Union in the Civil War...



Icon has seen A LOT of fighting in his lifetime (his date on Earth predates Superman's by around 99 years, 1839 to Superman's 1938 or so). I'd guess that this allows him to hang with Superman - as well as his use of Positrons which are a form of Ionic energy. This energy AUGMENTS his strength and power and allows him to emit force energy in Positron form from his hands - used to knock Superman out temporarily during his fight with him.

I posted most panels from that comic on page 1 of this thread.

Icon - from what I've read of him - would NOT ever beat Superman but Superman cannot defeat him, either. Icon would need to make liberal use of his Positron Energy just to hang with Superman, though.



Icon is basically "A human being from FAR into the future, maximized"....this is where he gets his powers from. This is mentioned in his comics in the earlier issues and explains how he became so powerful.

The misconception is that he has no weaknesses and this isn't true. I don't believe his writers meant that with him.

This is a dope *** thread.
+1 for rocket and icon media

Heh is friends name is Buck Wild lol. Great name.

If you can find the time I'd highly recommend reading as many of the Milestone Media (DC) Comics from the 90s as you can. Their comics cover just about the ENTIRE breadth of the Black Experience - but the TRUE BEAUTY of their comics is that they do NOT exclude anyone in their comics.

Their comics are definitely told with the central theme of Diversity.

Heroes....Blood Syndicate...Icon and Rocket....Hardware.....Static....Shadow Cabinet....Xombi......

Some of it is ugly....much of it is beautiful.....but NONE of it is false.

I find the character "Pyre" to be as interesting as just about anyone I've read about in Comics. While he starts out as a seemingly decent character he drifts into being quite the evil and corrupt character.

Rufus T (Buck) Wild reminds me of a few popular-life-of-the-party guys I grew up with....the ones that lit up the room the moment they entered it.

The true story of Buck Wild is not about his intelligence or language...it's about strength of character. The people he protected loved him.

Hardware? In his comics starts out as a VERY angry Black Man - and with good reason. The very man he spends just about his entire comics trying to bring down (Edwin Alva) ends up having a close relationship with him at the end.....VERY reminiscent of yet ANOTHER well-known character (Firestorm) lol.

ALL of the Milestone Media Comics are ORIGINAL which is the true beauty of it all.....no "Hijacking of Famous Symbols just for name recognition"............................................

Folks in an uproar about "Wokeness" look no further than Icon and Rocket and many other Milestone Media (DC) comics. Can't complain about replacing "Well-Known Brands" with these comics. They OOZE originality.

I read up to the Superman fight in this thread then sporadically over the other couple pages.(will catch up on rest soon)
Love the idea of someone being able to check supes and do it at his own game, no gimmicks, or krypto, just beat ‘em up lol.
I love how it’s an original comic.
I’ll be honest I don’t mind when they reskin the usuals, it’s not like they don’t make 12 of the same movie anyway (looking at you joker movies, you’re all awesome but can we have at least one other villain!?) however, this seems so much more celebration worthy to me? Why get excited about a different color skin on an already established story when you can have a DC Original that was MADE for you?
(/speaking not to you but in general obviously)
Idk why dc hasn’t utilized any of this yet, but my moneys on at some point this will be a thing, maybe you’re just ahead of the curve my guy.