Icon and Rocket

Great Points.

Additionally -

Considering how Augustus Freeman IV endured Slavery AND fought for the Union in the Civil War.



I also read in his and Rocket's Comics that witnessed BOTH world wars...



...as well as The Holocaust.

And to to top THAT off, the character shares a "Benjamin Button-Like" existence...



..in that he STOPPED aging around 40 years of age....this means that he basically WATCHES his lovely wife Estelle pass away not only from cancer but ALSO from old age, I'd guess




...not ONLY his wife Estelle Freeman but ALSO his Earth mother Myriam





and ALL of his few friends he makes along the way.

As you stated Shn I'm certain he'd desire to maintain a LOW profile after dealing with all of this - at least until Raquel Irvin persuades him to take up his Superhero mantle once again.

Get busy WB - no more excuses. Scrap Val Zod and bring Icon and Rocket to the Big Screen.

If I remember correctly (and I could be completely wrong), the Milestone books have had rights issues, and WB lost rights to the characters after Young Justice season 2, although they've since gotten them back. I suspect that, along with the Milestone books not being set in the DC universe have worked to keep Icon and company out of the minds of the Warner executives. Also, the only Milestone character who really broke out was Static. Yeah, Icon and Rocket were in YJ, but not very much.
Calvin Ellis has the advantage of trading off of the popularity of both Superman and President Obama. That gives him a quick hook with WB executives who don't know very much about comics. It's not fair, but that's life until something happens to boost their visibility a lot. (The only Milestone book I collected when they first came out was Icon and Hardware. I really don't expect to see a Hardware movie, like, ever.)

Milestone and DC did in fact settle their rights issues back in Dec 2019 I believe

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dwayne-mcduffie-milestone-media-2-0-lawsuit-settled/

In August 2017, it was announced that Charlotte McDuffie was suing the founders of Milestone Media 2.0 over rights held by original co-founder of Milestone, her late husband Dwayne McDuffie. Milestone 2.0 was announced back in 2015, a revival of the original multi-racial focused Milestone Media superhero comics line published by DC Comics in the nineties, from Reggie Hudlin, and original Milestone co-founders Denys Cowan, and Derek Dingle (but not Michael Davis). The lawsuit stated that despite the revival's genesis taking place at his wake, the new group left McDuffie's estate out of the new deal despite McDuffie owning half the Milestone rights and defendant Cowan owning the other half. Suing for compensatory damages, punitive damages, legal costs, saying,

Defendants Hudlin, Cowan, and Dingle at that point began a conspiracy to deprive the representatives and beneficiaries of McDuffie's estate of information and assets to which they were entitlted. Defendants Hudlin, Cowan, and Dingle engaged in this conspiracy to enrich themselves, all at the expense of McDuffie's heirs.

DC Comics has repeatedly announced a revival and return of Milestone Media to DC Comics, but there has been no mention since the lawsuit. But not it transpires that the involved parties have reached a settlement. MyNewsLA reported that attorneys for Charlotte McDuffie filed a notice of settlement, but the official Dwayne McDuffie Facebook Page run by family and friends reports;

IMPORTANT NOTE: No idea who wrote this article, but FYI all: when brought to Charlotte's attention, she was confused by its negative tone about such a POSITIVE outcome for ALL involved!!

TLDR: Charlotte says this is GOOD news!!

The article reports that attorneys for Charlotte McDuffie filed a notice of settlement. Charlotte also launched a GoFundMe to fund The Dwayne McDuffie Foundation, which will be,

a non-profit organization to award academic scholarships for diverse students. The fund will also continue to keep Dwayne's vision alive by managing and maintaining an archival website for research purposes, and applying on behalf of Dwayne's fans for his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Dwayne is also featured in the recently-published Little Legends: Exceptional Men in Black History book by Vashti Harrison alongside lawman Bass Reeves, artist Aaron Douglas, civil rights leader John Lewis, dancer Alvin Ailey, filmmaker Oscar Micheaux, musician Prince, photographer Gordon Parks, tennis champion Arthur Ashe, and writer James Baldwin.

Here's hoping (and praying) that the part about the conspiracy involving his former partners (Cowan, Hudlin and Dingle) is NOT true....and I suspect that it is NOT. Could be some "hearsay" thrown out there to give a negative image to Milestone Comics, which would NOT surprise me at all.

Mr. Dwayne McDuffie DID in fact have a few issues with DC:

https://www.cbr.com/dwayne-mcduffie-fired-from-justice-league/

Granted, in the above article he DID in fact say the firing was his fault BUT he still wished he would've had MORE CONTROL of some things. This is unfortunate. Someone with McDuffie's talent should've been given a WIDE berth.

In any event his friends and co-workers seemed to have glowing things to say about him in his passing



As for Calvin Ellis? I'd hope that you took the time to read over what I've posted here in this thread about Augustus Freeman IV. He seems to have a LOT more originality and depth of character about him than a "Kryptonian Black Man".

This "depth" meaning that Augustus Freeman IV was "BORN" in slavery, endured the struggle, helped others along the way AND made a way for himself by becoming a successful lawyer.

Augustus Freeman IV ALSO lost A LOT throughout his Comic Book life. If you've paid attention to my posts about him he NOT ONLY lost his wife to Cancer AND old age but I'm certain he lost OTHERS around him simply by being immortal.

Imagine THAT from HIS PERSPECTIVE. Think about that for a moment.

Calvin Ellis just doesn't have that depth of character. What has Calvin lost? What has he GAINED? What is his "Job" while he's not wearing / stealing the "S"?

What is HIS experience on Earth? Who has he HELPED?

Let me close by making myself CLEAR - I have NOTHING against Superman - not in the Comics NOR on the Big Screen. But as for ORIGINALITY Augustus Freeman IV / Icon - has the "Calvin Ellis" version of him beat by a MILE.

Let's hope that "Former President" Obama and others can see that and respect it......and not fall prey to slapping an "S" on a character's chest and calling them...

"Superman"?

That is the Easy Way Out......










If in THE COMICS these two already seemingly have a DEEP relationship then simply BUILD ON IT.....................

Don't be LAZY and slap an "S" on a character and call him SUPERMAN.

Leave Kal-El / Clark Kent ALONE....he and his Super Cousin Kara-El as well. Stop with the Lazy Clones. And PLEASE give Kara-El her BLOND HAIR back.................................................................

Off-Topic question.....

Something that has BUGGED me about that Icon and Superman picture in space is - how in the WORLD are they able to BREATHE in the vacuum of space? How can they even COMMUNICATE?

Dwayne Mcduffie DID in fact SOLVE that question...



.....by giving him a SPACE SUIT, lol.......makes sense.

it seems like a no brainer to me. especially if WB wants to build a multiverse. Milestone could have become its own franchise while still being a part of the DCEU opening up future movies to crossovers and team ups and building up to a big bad threat everyone gets involved in.

I don't think their decision making is based on one particular bit of information or detail. Personally I'm inclined to think the lack of big name recognition plays a significant part, but without any firsthand knowledge it's all really speculation.

The acknowledgement from WB was well deserved, but that doesn't necessarily mean Icon has moved into the forefront of their processes. As a comparison, Marvel went through:

• Three Iron Man films
• Two Thor films
• Two Captain America films
• One Avengers film
• One Hulk film (if you want to be a completionist, I tend to forget it because of Mark Ruffalo taking over the Bruce Banner/Hulk role in Avengers LOL)

before they started taking risks with their lesser-known characters, starting with Guardians and then moving on to folks like Ant-Man (a founding Avenger in the comics, no less) and Doctor Strange. DC still hasn't quite sorted out handling their Trinity well on a consistent basis, so just from that standpoint alone there's reason to at least suspect their lesser-known characters are going to be on the backburner for a while.

The worries and concerns over tokenism are completely valid and I can see why folks would be upset about DC apparently going down that path. But at the same time, the fact that they've floated the idea of using the Calvin Ellis version of Superman is nothing to sneeze at and not without it's own risks. Even with the environment that exists now and the critical and commercial success that came with Black Panther, there's unfortunately a LOT of people who aren't ready for a black Superman. Beyond the valid tokenism criticisms, there's also likely to be less valid or knee-jerk comments ranging from "they're just trying to be PC or woke" to stuff that is utterly vile and racist. I can't imagine they went into the process of exploring a Calvin Ellis Superman movie without knowing they were going to be facing pushback, but they went ahead with it anyway.

Ultimately I want to see a good super hero film come out of it all. My worries tend to be with DC/WB's very spotty track record in making good super hero films more than anything else, and I'd hate to see either possibility (Calvin Ellis or Icon) getting torpedoed by a crappy story or film. That would ultimately make it harder for the one that wasn't used to get to the big screen. But I can't be surprised that they'd consider using Calvin Ellis instead of Icon simply because Calvin has the association with the bigger brand name in Superman.

Will -

I share many of your same concerns, here. I do.

If they / WB/DC is going to take a RISK with Calvin Ellis Superman it baffles "MY" mind as to why they wouldn't simply pivot to Icon and Rocket...

If they REALLY have concerns over how Calvin Ellis Superman plays out as far as tokenism I know for a fact that if they went with an ORIGINAL brand in Milestone/DC's Icon and Rocket AT LEAST they would be going with AN ORIGINAL BRAND...

...FREE from that "S" symbol. If they had the COURAGE to do this they would AT LEAST free themselves from the TOKENISM complaints and I think folks would (I know "I" would, at least) give them a PASS for "TRYING" at least......

I also get your concerns as far as "DC being a bit behind on the movies" compared to Marvel.....and this perhaps giving them LESS leeway to go with a brand like Milestone/DC's "Icon". But HERE is the thing, though -

If Rotten Tomatoes already bad-listed MoS, BvS AND JL Movies then WHAT RISK is there in trying Icon and Rocket, LOOL??

It is NOT like those three movies established "DC's Cinematic Brand".

What ELSE does DC Cinematic Universe HAVE TO LOSE?

"Sure - let's FURTHER agitate fans by producing Calvin Ellis Superman".

Will I've already did some homework - at least on the DIGITAL side. My Internet searches for Val Zod / Calvin Ellis / Black Superman come up with about ONLY 1 / 3 the traffic hits as Milestone's Icon and Rocket.

ONE THIRD.

Crazy as it is, when I did the "Black Superman" search guess whose mug came up HALF THE TIME?



On Youtube, Icon hits are EASILY double the Val Zod/Calvin Ellis/Black Superman hits.

Again - I get your concerns and your POV. But I'm not sure exactly what data/focus groups at DC Cinematic Universe are using and I'm rather concerned that they are Tone-Deaf and have some Execs in positions that they don't need to be in due to lack of experience with ALL Superheroes.

And - AT LEAST with the Snyder Cut - there is ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that "FANS" can drive a NARRATIVE....

Snyder Cut is a RESULT of FANS driving this thing home. Count ME as one that has railed IN SUPPORT of The Snyder Cut.

Zach Snyder deserves ALL the recognition and accolades for HIS version of Justice League. We are FINALLY about to see the results of what HE wanted for the movie and the EARLY results are GOOD - with AT LEAST a 75 Rotten Tomatoes listing, so far......

Listen to YOUR FANS, DC Cinematic Universe - ALL of them - including your Icon and Rocket supporters.

Here is a picture of Estelle Freeman and her husband, Augustus Freeman IV - in happier times before her passing.

League Vote for Icon (and Rocket) in Young Justice.



Actual vote gets muted but on page one of this thread we see that Icon DID in fact make it IN.

Here's a clip of him doing his "Lawyerly" duties standing as an advocate for the JL's trial.



As I've posted in this thread his Alter-Ego Augustus Freeman IV is a high-powered and wealthy Attorney. And BEFORE he crash-landed on Earth in 1839 he was a member of the Universe's "Cooperative" which I believe served as an Intergalactic Supreme Court from what I understand from his Icon and Rocket comics.

And the number of hits that come with Superman probably dwarfs that of Icon. That's what sort of metric the execs would likely look at as justification. That plus whatever information they would gather from focus and testing groups (and whatever other methods of info gathering they have).

And personally I'd be careful with the Snyder cut comparisons (and I wish you hadn't brought it up at all because it's going to make me rant and go off-topic a bit LOL). Yes, the fans were heard and all that. But it's also a valid viewpoint to look at the whole "Release the Snyder cut!" campaign as a protracted and extended fan temper tantrum that was rewarded (which is something of a bad precedent to set) and was ultimately used by DC/WB and their parent company as a cynical tool to drive subscribers for the streaming service they were in the process of launching.

Which (in regards to the last point) is not all that different from your complaints about what DC might be doing in pursuing a Calvin Ellis story over an Augustus Freeman story: a cynical corporate move.

And I think the cinematic performances of Jonah Hex, Green Lantern and Catwoman alone might give any exec second thoughts on a "what do you have to lose?" strategy. LOL

Will -

You'd be PROUD of me this weekend.

I "ACTUALLY" took the LIBERTY to RESEARCH my antagonist, Calvin Ellis.

What I found was........"Interesting" to say the least....

https://superman.fandom.com/wiki/Calvin_Ellis

So - with "Calvin Ellis"....his Humble Beginnings mirrors that of Kal -El BUT he ends up as "PRESIDENT". This is something that even Clark didn't do......

He ends up with "Brainiac" as his PERSONAL ASSISTANT....................

His 'STORY" makes ZERO mention of enduring SLAVERY (like Augustus Freeman's does).....makes ZERO mention of fighting for The Union in The Civil War....makes ZERO mention of fighting for the ALLIES in WW 2.....

I guess Clark (and Augustus) got the "Short End of The Stick" to say the least LOOL. Maybe Calvin can HIRE Clark as his Personal Photographer and hire Augustus Freeman as his Lawyer.....................

Calvin's "Backstory" makes NO mention of struggle or perseverance......LOOK I get the "President Obama" reference..I voted for President Obama TWICE and would've did it a THIRD time if possible.....

But Calvin Ellis does NOT deserve to get a DC Big Screen moment.

Those HITS you're talking about is because Calvin's riding the Coat Tails of Clark - especially NOW.

I mean - talk about being born with a Silver Spoon...........................Calvin Ellis.

I ALSO found the TIMING of Calvin Ellis' birth to be INTERESTING....it was in 2009. Dwayne McDuffie was FIRED from DC in 2009 as well..

Granted - Dwayne ADMITTED that his firing was HIS FAULT. I get that. But the TIMING of his firing and the "BIRTH" of Silver Spoon Superman is quite interesting to ME, to say the least.

I love Augustus Freeman and Rocket even MORE, now.



Calvin doesn't have an intelligent and idealistic teenager as his partner (and CONSCIENCE), as well.
Raquel Irvin is easily as interesting (if not moreso) than HE is.

Rocket meets Superboy for the very first time - right before DakotaVerse AND Metropolis' merger into one universe AND Icon and Superman's epic confrontation.

Another talented actor that could play Augustus Freeman IV / Icon



Aldis Hodge

https://www.cbr.com/static-shock-movie-screenwriter-randy-mckinnon/

This is AWESOME.

Perhaps through Static "OTHER" Milestone Characters like Icon, Rocket and Hardware can be introduced.

Hodge would be a fantastic choice. I would be thrilled with an Icon and Rocket movie. Will is right that the biggest problem with DCEU has been inconsistent quality. To some extent, in my opinion, that comes from writers, directors or producers trying to fit too many different concepts and different incarnations of iconic characters into a single movie. While I love the general concept of a black Superman, it will be hard, if not impossible, to deliver a quality movie that resonates with the audience the way Black Panther or Wonder Woman does.

The beauty of using Icon would be that the filmmakers could tell an origin that hasn’t been rehashed 5 million times and place the characters firmly in the world (in Dakota) to create a rich, engaging story that makes audiences want more. Of course, I’m nervous about someone creating a truly lackluster or horrible movie and killing any chance of a Dakataverse arc in DCEU, but the payoff would be great if they pulled it off.

I know that an Icon and Rocket movie "WOULD" resonate with its audience - and more audiences than just the ones that were compelled to see Black Panther or Wonder Woman.

The viewers or those two movies saw different themes in EACH one...different stories...different messages.

To experience what Augustus Freeman IV did - basically a PARALLEL (VERY similar to Kal-Els) existence BUT from a BLACK perspective set in 1839 during SLAVERY - is as UNIQUE an experience as BOTH Black Panther Movie AND WW.

EASILY.

I'd gather that "Killmonger" would find MORE IN COMMON with Augustus Freeman IV, anyway - being that AF IV actually LIVED the Black Experience from the start. This was Killmonger's initial beef with T-Challa - in that he and his Kingdom were basically ABSENT from what?

BILLIONS of Blacks while they suffered?



Read this thread if you get a chance....Augustus Freeman IV helped his fellow slaves...made their burdens EASIER...didn't run off and hide and actually USED his powers in spurts to help others.

He was THERE - While T-Challa and his kingdom were NOT, at least at first.

It is QUITE the story....just WAITING to be told AGAIN - on the BIG SCREEN.

Calvin Ellis CANNOT tell it - because his backstory is NOT in 1839..........

Finally - more folks KNOW about Icon and Rocket than what some want to acknowledge.

It is TIME to bring his (and Rocket's) story to The Big Screen, WB - no more excuses. Do THIS man (and his Milestone members) justice.







No "Toxic fandom" (LOL) - here - just an ORIGINAL person that wants an ORIGINAL story and not an "S" slapped on a chest.

Some folks here MAY not want to "deal with" Augustus Freeman's.........."Politics"?

Dwayne Mcduffie WANTED to create RICH characters based off of the ENTIRE spectrum of Black Life - NOT JUST what we've seen in Hollywood the last 60 years or so.

Augustus Freeman IV - Rich, Conservative.....and at ONE TIME - very ignorant....at least until he met Raquel Irvin and she woke him up.

Static - brash teenager with many gifts and can manipulate Electricity like NO other.

Rocket - Intelligent and idealistic teenager that is as interesting (if not moreso) than Icon. She is Icon's Conscience.

Hardware - for ADULTS only lol. His comics - at least at the start - paint a picture of a Tony Stark-like intellect but a VERY angry Black Man - and for GOOD reason if you read his comics.



This ANGER for Curtis Metcalf / hardware manifests itself in negative ways, at least at the beginning. But he grows as a man towards the end of his comic.

This is not even counting Blood Syndicate, Shadow Cabinet and OTHER characters from Milestone. They cover the ENTIRE Breathe of the Black Experience but from a Superhero experience.

Time for THEIR stores to be told on the Big Screen. WB's "TENT" is Big Enough.

What MORE do they have to LOSE?