Test Discussion Ice Mid-range Adjustments

I think he was simply comparing ~WT/CS/IB with Robot Sidekick~ versus ~WT/CS, BW/IB~
The latter is slow and high-risk for low reward.

Ideally, BW being buffed, and WT being range-relative would make the latter the preferred cookie-cutter loadout. IMHO, it would also solve the chief complaints running rampant: the wind-up time (it's slower) and the skill involved (distance has to be maintained to keep up the DoT).

Nope, Ice don't need to be nerfed or buffed, as I say, it is basically the same damage as Gadgets or Fire when playing content. The whole concept here is that AG should be doing same damage as today at melee, reduced damage at midrange, while Avalanche should be increased.

he specifically stated that BW clips and enflame cannot. I have no idea with the motivations as that wasnt addressed I simply replied to make the clarification

It is needed, because ice is faster, having this advantage, ice will always do more damage, if artic gust/avalanche are doing less damage, it'll be balanced.

I understand your concern. If damage is all you care about, you probably would not choose to use Bitter Winds or Enflame. Now granted for many, they only farm 8 person raids as DPS and only care about doing the most damage all the time. If that's you, Bitter Winds is probably not what you want. But for others going the "straight full burn" route is less important and might take a back seat to the added safety and utility that comes from running Bitter Winds which trades a small amount of damage output for Damage Absorption, Control Resistance buff and debuffing enemy movement speed.

So, it sounds like what you're saying is that Bitter Winds, like Snow Devil, is not meant to be a damage power.

Bitter Winds is harmful and shouldn't clip anything but weapon attacks like any other harmful power. This isn't normal behavior. Can you tell me what rotation you're using to get this to happen?

I don't understand the thought process behind making Wintry Tempest affected by range even more than it is now.

In case you don't know Wintry is already making less dmg if far form the target. That happens because if you are far from your enemy then Wintry does not do burst dmg it only does the DoT. What you describe is already there unless you take pleasure in trying to overnerf Ice.

It would not be bad if Bitter had a similar effect for the ones that choose to use it, just like it would be nice if Frost Blast could be added to the AM. Although I believe you don't take under consideration that Bitter is a shield. There is no high risk- high reward type of thing since you are using probably the second strongest shield in game.

The "complaints" are irrelevant since the power seems to be on par with the rest.

I believe he meant something else. Bitter can't clip anything, on either server.

I stand corrected. I'd thought it would clip, since it's a shield.

ok knowing that if the choice is between removing the damage absorption of BW to increasing its damage Ill happily keep it hitting lower for the partial shield it gives us. and control Resistance.. please dont change it then.. i do wish the range was slightly greater as it seems hard to get the dot with it even at close range sometimes but i like the way the power functions as is

if it were solely beneficial it probably would but it also applies a dot

it doesnt he was just mistaken as he posted above

My bad. I would have sworn I'd clipped with it before... but 3 minutes on the test server and I proved to myself it can't. Being a shield, it's still a tad better than Enflame though.

• As for WT doing more damage closer in, and losing the burst-on-cast when far away, I haven't noticed that. Is that something that's only on Test?
• I wouldn't want the damage of WT reduced without BW being buffed. I'm trying to contribute to the overall betterment of the powerset, and am a little offended by the "take pleasure in trying to overnerf" comment.
• The shielding effects of BW are severely reduced in damage stance. But, I would like to see all melee abilities allow a little bit of survivability if you mod/spec into it.
• I think a lot of people were thrown when Av/AG were picked as the AM channels over Frost Blast. Not only that, but the animation for Av was changed to be AG with a bunch of snowballs. I wouldn't mind Frost Blast being added, depending on how it worked. I suppose the idea is for it to be like Fireburst?
• I don't hold stock in the complaints, I was simply saying how my idea would help assuage them. Chill effects being ready for a stream of mediocre hits has little difference to the gigantic chunk that can be taken out with time bomb/emp/mass terror/etc, that is also ready once we've gone down a hallway. People seem to forget that icy fields are the way to ideal damage, and those require the PI + second cast of a channel + the target to be standing in it. Focused Attack versus Advanced Interaction means steady-stream versus buildup-and-pow.

No one is trying to get Ice nerfed. We are simply stating that the average damage per second it does on Test Server now (Ice Elemental exclueded) is fine as it is and doesn't need to have its damage increased. Yes, Ice's average DPS is a bit lower than others but that's how it should be because of how Ice has 0 drawbacks.

How much do ice hit for on live using Tunso's test?

So it wasn't an average of 41k for Gadgets. Thanks for confirming it.

Not trying to go against you but I watched closely all 3 videos, In the Fire and Gadgets they were really well executed, while it was different for Ice, there were few errors here and there which could've influenced the numbers a little bit.

Either way as Avian has pointed out, even then your results shows how is balanced, it doesnt need any more nerfing or buffing. It's good as it is.

No idea, never did a Tunso Test on live. Do you have any data or know someone who can provide any data on it?

• Wintry was always like this. As far as I can remember it has been the same for 4 years, wasn't Ice the first year of the game
• I did not mean to be offensive, sorry if you felt so.
• It is not a bad idea, but if you are shielded even with reduced capabilities you are still relatively safe so the risk-reward thing gets a bit sketchy.
• If it is added I assume it will be the equivalent of Fireburst both in dmg and function. The only reason I keep bringing it up is because Ice is a bit monotonous, I love it to death but it is.
• Well Ice's AM advantage is that it does not get that much affected by interrupts, but in return it gets to do lower dmg than the rest when tested. That's why the numbers are lower and yet it keeps up. As long as it can keep up I'm happy.