I want a challenge in new content

Ok could you not try to sound like you want the devs to hand you everything you want, with very little effort on your part?

yes people are that bad try pugging some time.
and yes in the beginning of the game there were less kids because you had to pay 60 dollars for the game and then 15 dollars a month to play it the kids didn't show up until free to play

You don't have a green name, nor have enough information to know who used what glitch how often. It's data you don't have. It's your opinion before players took them down I could have showed you saved streams of more then one time. If I was motivated I would ask the people who I know sent videos in but I'm not motivated.

The devs didn't realize the potential. They were scrambling for a fix and they did not want to remove a power from the some players actually used because they liked and bough was fun or worked with a joker them character they enjoyed. They made it a supercharge to make the exploiting of the tech harder, exploiting hey have had a problem tech wise with for years same as doors.

If realizing potential is defined as trying to hurt the 95% that used the power for the right reasons instead of letting 5 % ruin it for everyone else.

And since you equate super technical knowledge with investigation here; gear and feats were only stripped from the loot table on the last boss of throne and while here were three separate glitches that made this possible at the gear level of the day. One if those glitches involved quantum tunneling players picking up flow doc players and teleporting to a safe map location where they could do damage with a releativley low chance of taking damage or damyjng and completely bypassing the mechanics of the fight.

Since I otherwise enjoy most of your posts I'm going to pass on any further replies as you took a general point and tried to make specific correction and then presented your opinions as facts after calling me out for the same.

It's hypocrisy at its finest but it's also a giant whatever.

Almost without fail everyone someone asks for challenge them or others break the game chasing down gear just so they can feel better then someone else.

Since you haven't debated that argument I'm pulling myself up out of the minutia of Throne glitching which you are also not arguing was an issue just who got gear stripped.

See ya around hopefully on more amiable topics

What are you talking about. That's what all the content since nexus has been, handed to us. I want actual challenge. I'm a big lantern fan and want to start this up again. But I see nothing is changed. The community only cares about their own wants, and the devs are forced to give in. It's a busineds, so I understand. I just hoped the community changed. Guess not.

I'd actually say FOS 3, but I think the point is made.

Both

Did you just come up with your own definition of "exploit"?

Your claim stating that the use of CB to avoid teleportation in Throne is in fact not an exploit, is invalid, because that depends on whether the devs intended for there to exist a way to avoid teleportation. While neither of us can be certain of whether or not they intended for such a thing, I believe they did not and I think most people would agree. In that case, the use of CB to avoid teleportation IS an exploit as it is a method used to circumvent the mechanics of a raid in a manner unintended by the game developers.

I am not going to say that it is in fact an exploit, because I understand that what is and is not considered an exploit in video games can be controversial, but don't tell me that calling it an exploit is my "opinion" and then immediately contradict yourself by saying that is in fact not an exploit. I have provided my reasoning for why I believe it's an exploit. You've also provided yours but it's kind of weak. Who ever said that an exploit in a video game is inhuman or that only a few people can pull it off?

I will address your concerns.

The Devs were the ones that came out and said that it wasn't an exploit. Albeit, they did mention that they felt that it was cheesy, and while that is their opinion, they were clear that it was a usuable method, and wasn't actually an exploit. Insisting that it is an exploit is an opinion, when by declaration it is not.

Here is my evidence for this:

As per my definition of Exploit, here is the quote for you from the TOS

• Exploit any bug in any Daybreak Game(s) and to refrain from communicating the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the end user unnatural or unintended benefits to the user), directly, indirectly and/or through public posting, to any other end user of such Daybreak Game(s). Additionally, you agree to promptly report any such bugs to Daybreak.

In this case, I will admit that inhuman was used incorrectly, and I should have instead used unintended. So you win on the case of me using inhuman. But let me be clear that attacking my language, does not validate your "reasoning", nor does it difffuse my own presentation of facts.

Anyway, Facts... Opinions... It's all the same, right?

So seeing the definition of exploit I ask you an honest question. Was the invisible Ledge that your league (not you personally) partook in an exploit and should it have been reported to Daybreak?

99% of the community agreed it was and even the creative director described it as one but I'd like to hear what you have to say on this, see if you can put league bias aside.

Wait in line there a lot of people who want something else! Be it challenge,mechanics, mp stuff or free stuff. As long as people die on the brainiac ship there will never be too much challenge in this game anymore. Spank and tank plus DD stacking will be the norm for a good while.

I suppose in a way it was reported, albiet not through the proper channels.

As per the use of the ledge... All I can say is that I personally would rather not use it so that an arguement cannot be summoned to discredit whatever we were trying to achieve.

I'll close by saying that I feel like the entire ordeal could have been handled with more tact from all parties.

That is what Clown Box does. It's an exploit because its effect on the teleportation mechanic in Throne was missed by the devs and the devs did not originally intend for there to be a controllable method to avoid teleportation completely.

I don't know why they decided to suddenly treat it as a legitimate strategy, but in my opinion they were wrong do that. However, by the definition that an exploit is a resource within the game used to circumvent game mechanics in a manner unintended by the developers, this is an exploit. And you can tell by the fact the Locke said it was "cheesy" that they did not intend for CB to be used the way it was. The use of CB in that raid probably never even entered their minds.

The only way this is not an exploit is if, during the creation of Throne, the devs tested Clown Box in the raid, discovered its ability to prevent teleportation during the Hades fight, and accepted that as a strategy. Obviously, none of that happened. When designing the last boss, they did not think, "Ok, we want to make this very challenging so in order to beat Hades, players will be teleported during the fight and be forced to defeat 4 adds UNLESS they use Clown Box."

Take off pieces of gear? Well that defeats a major purpose of the game.

I notice these threads never specify content people found challenging and WHY they found it challenging.

And they can't reinvent the wheel every dlc. How many more tricks could you possibly imagine at this rate. Whether it reflect, high health, needing a tank to defeat it, needing an add pulled out, need bosses defeated in a certain order, or needing an object placed, a portal closed or a shield removed or a one shot blocked or a tunnel closed.

We've done it. No variation will be seen as difficult because you've been playing all these years.
Difficulty isn't high health or 1 shots, or mechanics, the difficulty comes in you figuring those things out. We've done them, and a lot of them. give suggestions at this point.

And would you guys get over people using a super charge to beat throne elite. It was 1 cr. and that cr has come and gone. I never even beat the last boss of throne elite because it just wasn't worth the energy with those drop rates. it wasn't more challenging it was just boosted stats. I promise then next elite will roll around and they'll figure something else out.

Answer this and thats all.

Can it or can it not be removed at any point just like the actual exploit of quantum tunneling or the thing people did in the last survival mode.

I'll save you time. yes. it can.
Was it?
No.

Is not defeating 4 adds the maker or breaker when it comes to someone being good or not? Because if thats all the standards are lower then i've ever seen them.

In all things the raid was, that was also broken to the point where throne spawned 2 final bosses with one invincible one, and was broken in lord knows how many ways for the first month and a half or so of release, this clown box is the thing that the raid will be remembered for.

These aren't to make boss fights harder, although can, but keep them flowing, rather then killing them in a matter of seconds before they actually try to attack you. There are new mechanic ideas out there, but I still would be happy with a current one of them.

You solve the problem in a matter of seconds once you understand it is the point I was trying to get at.

No matter how complex, you have to give them slack.

MMOS are based around grinding.
When doing any task repeatedly you get more skilled at it.

A new group of 8 isn't thrashing TOtD or HH in one foul swoop.

But those dudes who just hit 118cr?

Yeah.

Those dudes who have seen every single piece of content? yeah. it's how people determined lashina had a reflect so quickly even without a skull. Or to block during the really long spin during NGN. Or that adds spawned in NGN 1st boss, or that the objects needed to be placed specifically, or that the glowing white add in TOTD needs to be separated and beat by the one of the 2 roles that can keep things separate.
The colored shield in FE, the panels in FE, the fan room in FE.

They are doing these things. They aren't going to always satiate a player who has seen there tricks ideas and has an intricate understanding of all the mechanics.

I forgot to add, I have no issue with raids, this thread is specifically aimed at duos and challenges, unlike raids, they are just a run, spam and kill now. I want old duo models like the t1's and BFE out. Also the Lantern Duo in WoLpt2 wasn't bad.

Having to have your eyes open while playing isn't elitist. Also taking off gear isn't a challenge. We're talking Mechanics. Something dcuo players don't know about. It means having to dodge, time things, pay attentiom, cooperate. Absolutely nothing to do with how hard you hit or how hard you get hit. In fact most games make you put on more gear to hit a dps check. Making it so you have to have GEAR AND SKILL. I'm not even asking for the gear part. Because I know this community and their sad CR requirements in LFG

I'd love to see more mechanics like we had in TotD. Endgame content shouldn't be as easy as it is, nor be easily beat on Day 1 with a 5-1-1-1 group. The Devs have been catering to low skill players since they implemented AMs, Max Damage, and WM. It used to take skill and planning to be a good DPS, because the modifiers would make or break the damage dealt. Many are just rushing to get to the top, but lack the ability to play at that level. A 126 DPS should smoke my 121 in Duos, but some are smoked by me instead. I know some may think maybe they weren't putting in the effort, but that wasn't the case at all, the person was trying to do everything he could, but had no clue as to how his rotations actually work.

OC was the perfect example of a good challenge, despite the graphical errors that caused people to miss tells. Every DLC, now Episode since then has catered to those that are so unskilled that they took the challenge away. MMORPGs are team based games that require grinding, communication, and skill to get through content. If you can't handle that, then I'd suggest playing games like Call of Duty instead.