I love DCUO, so can you address PvP already?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by BumblingB, Oct 27, 2022.

  1. BumblingB I got better.

    I really like the new title naming convention. (I actually don't remember what the original one was that got changed.)

    What? BB talking about PvP? Absolutely! But not exactly what you think.

    First of all, the game is going on it's 12th year anniversary in 3 months! PvP hasn't been directly touched since 2014. It had a new map and gear set added with the launch of the Suicide Squad movie with Will Smith in 2016. It was indirectly touched with the many Advance Mechanics updates and of course the big Stats Revamp update in 2017, which did a big number on PvP, especially Legends PvP/PvE. So we are talking 8 years of actual development limbo. This is 2/3rd the time the game was alive. At this point, PvP is a legacy gameplay and should be treated as such. Pull the cord and let it rest.

    What do I propose? There are some things that would work for all players.
    1. Grant all feats except the style ones. Make all the gear purchasable by Source Marks and allow the Valor marks be converted over to Source Marks. This is just the easiest route. Leaves the content there for players to do if they want to. Make wins give only 3-5 marks, this is to dissuade players from doing trade wins, but doesn't change the grind for PvE content. EEG has no loot lockouts already.
    2. Don't grant the feats, but make the gear accessible to all players that just want to jump in and out. Put the same number of toughness on all PvE gear. Remove the disabling of PvE gear in Arenas and PvP gear in clamped EEG content. Leave it active in EG PvE content to promote the purchase of new gear. This method allows the devs to maybe add these feats to CR boost tokens and give players a bit less of a wall if they want to attempt to grind the feats.
    3. Make everything open, like it is in the open world. Trinkets, pets, artifacts, gen mods, etc. The problem with this is, I don't think players will want to play it still, but at least players don't have to work around the restrictions. I also think allowing PvE gear is okay too, let glass cannons go boom and be boomed. I'm not personally a fan of this one, but I know it has been suggested in the past in other threads and seemed to be favorable responses there, so I included it.
    For goodness sake, if you do anything, increase the cap of Valor or decrease the cost of the gear. Allow all gear to be purchased at any time. None of that, buy all pieces with weapon and jewelry nonsense and only have enough marks to buy one piece. That was such a deterrent to a player, you have no idea. It was created because of win trading, but all it did was push players away.

    Wait, so addressing PvP means to abandon it? Yeah. At this point, 8 years later, it would require a whole team of combat/systems to work on it. Which means they would have to either hire a large number of new developers that would need to learn the legacy code and work on play testing and balancing, which is pretty much making a new game, OR have the current devs pause new PvE content for _at_least_ a year and work on it. Neither is ideal and could cause the higher ups raise and eyebrow for costs of maintaining this game that we all love.

    But what about all the other ideas players proposed, that might generate interest in PvP. Like, the weekly bonuses, such as 10x arena wins or something? Or how about adding new maps and legends characters, to allow players to show interest and join, like what happened with the Belle Reve map and Deadshot gear? What about just reverting it to an earlier state of the game, where it was more balanced and enjoyable?
    • Weekly bonuses could be included with my option #2. LPvE as an example is another legacy content in the game. Most players don't do it unless there is a bonus week already. It would actually generate interests and if players can just use their PvE gear with Toughness on it, it means the setup is only to make sure you have a breakout trinket.
    • Adding new maps will not work. They need to balance the content. The only reason why Belle Reve had been successful, it was introduced before Stats Revamp and it was one giant map. It was riddle with exploits, like how the ceiling was high, so flyers had the advantage. This falls under they would have to have people dedicated to a new map.
    • Adding new Legends characters is really a no go. The ones they added all needed a long time testing and really they still were introduced broken/OP to the extent they either had to ultra nerf them or they were under performing and uninteresting. Also, being able to sell them is a big issue, as like new powers, they could do all this to develop it and it doesn't make them money. I would rather they waste resources on a new power than a new legends character. To make PvE more diverse.
    • Reverting is NEVER going to happen. If they even have older versions stored on a drive somewhere, it just wouldn't be able to fit into the current build of the game. It would probably require them to overhaul the legacy code to be able to piece together what worked and didn't work. This is probably just as difficult as dedicating an entire team to balance the current build.
    With it all said and done, the devs should address it. Not just saying, "we would like to eventually" or "It would require x amount of resources", but say they will not be updating it and lay it to rest.

    Thank you for reading my Ted Kord talk. ;) Please be respectful, I'm all for conversations and disagreements, but don't be mean to me or others who may not agree with you.
    -BB
    • Like x 13
  2. OneWhoLaughed Committed Player

    Personally, I think we need a battle pass system and a revert to a more balanced build (not that I've ever experienced that).

    500 source marks or 2000 marketplace cash.
    Gives a gear set, some feats, maybe some base items/titles/catalysts/exobytes etc.
    This also puts some money into the game, maybe justifying the cost of a revamp/rework/fix etc.


    I actually really enjoy the mode atm, even if horribly unbalanced *coughs in mental*, but I don't want a handout.
    I want it to be a fair fight when two equally matched players go in. I want groups to haveto coordinate.
  3. King Bakes Well-Known Player

    For me, this is the best and fairest thread anyone has made in regards to PVP. You've listed a few options which are 100% fair because the devs are clearly never going to touch PVP again.

    I think they should just choose one of them and be done with it.

    Let the community move on.
    • Like x 3
  4. BumblingB I got better.

    A battle pass system would be difficult to introduce in the current state of the game. Namely, it wouldn't sell and win trading will be rampant again to get those new feats added. It would require them to balance it first then introduce it, not the other way around, unfortunately. They would have to make a plea to the powers at be, that dedicating X amount of resources would allow them to make money in the future. Not impossible, but I don't feel like it would go over well. Considering the hurdle they would have to take on to make it happen. That's a lot of money they could be dedicating to what was already making them money on.

    Atomic tank combo pull says hi. There are a lot of broken powers in PvP. It's funny, Atomic is the least used tank set, because it got gutted when they removed AM's during the stats revamp, but it somehow is king in PvP because it can just survive. lol
  5. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    If we want PvP back it will have to be crowd funded and some of the previous developers will have to be hired as consultants. It's painful as a previous competitive pvper that it's come to this but at the same time like the old valentines feats from the first year there is realistically no practical way for players to earn the feats.
    • Like x 3
  6. Raven Nocturnal Loyal Player

    At the very least, they should look into fixing the queues. Even on Xbox as a villain, the ONLY big issue I've ever had grinding the feats was the queues (especially 4v4, 5v5, and 8v8). I would use my main to form villain group, and my 2nd account to form a hero group... But even with both groups queued at once, it would take sooo long to finally pop. Sometimes had to drop a player or two and queue them solo to try and "force" it. Really looked like if even 1 player was out there queued for these things, it would prevent two fully formed groups from queueing entirely.

    Other than that, getting the feats really wasn't all that bad. Especially since I created the PvP Feats custom channel, in which saw a ton of usage over time.

    All in all, great post. The only thing I'm against is granting feats. Other than the queues constantly getting "stuck", boosting for all of those feats was actually kind of fun. Especially with everyone chatting and working together in voice chat.
  7. comrade sonya Committed Player

    I propose investing the Time Capsule, booster bundle, artifact money this game generates and diverting a tiny fraction into pvp. The most popular games are pvp games, there is still a dedicated PvP playerbase in dcuo and more that would return if PvP was updated. PvP is a great way to spend time in the game once you’re done with pve content which can get very repetitive and dull. PvP matches are always new and exciting :)
  8. Captain Hideous New Player

    I've honestly never cared about the feats. I just want PvP to become playable again as it is a nice break from the usual PvE grinding and it is something to do between episodes. Also, some of us tend to be competitive and would like to earn said feats. For me, the feats were just a nice bonus. I did read an idea of getting rid of powers/roles in the PvP instances and making PvP much like LPvP and it's something I'm definitely not against. Strip us down to Iconic Powers and Weapons for PvP arenas. Totally on board for bonus marks and reduction of PvP gear cost.

    Side note: I'm surprised the devs never did anything during the Battle Royale fad back in 2018. I think that was the most likely time any PvP updates could have realistically occurred. Ship sailed.

    Much like everybody here, I'd appreciate a definite "NO" over all the "not planning anything" we have been getting over the years.
    • Like x 2
  9. Drake Malice Dedicated Player

    Stupid repetitive meme
  10. Trended Active Player

    The Devs failed to see that pvp generated money in items such as respec tokens, membership, booster bundles Oh and the main one if any1 wanted to be good at pvp they had to do pve to get skill points in order to compete at the endgame pvp therefore pvp was not really free to play if you wanted to be competitive due to all the feats locked behind episodes.
  11. Quantum Edge Steadfast Player

    I have a lot of good memories of PVP in those first couple of years. It was absolutely splendid chaos. I would love for it to make a comeback, but I don't think with the existing population, there would be enough demand to make it worthwhile.
  12. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    hey guess what they did just hire a new team of developers because of the cancelation of the marvel game. so that's not a bar they could do it. The only thing stopping them is they don't care they only care about monetization and how they can squeeze more out of us.
  13. BumblingB I got better.

    They also lost a ton of DCUO devs. And they didn't hire them, they sort of merged the two teams into one.

    I'm talking about hiring people that is strictly there for PvP development. It definitely is not the same.
  14. Henoshock Well-Known Player

    Honestly, PvP is just too imbalanced for them to revive it. I'm pretty much all in favor of them just granting us the feats (Arenas + Legends wins, maybe not dueling), or making them massively easier to obtain. How about just... win X times. Something simple that doesn't rely too much on other people queuing the same thing. Or just like, winning 1 on any map of the same size grants you the feats. Like how new players in Omnibus can instantly pop all of the old R&D feats from AF3 or AoJ.

    Also, do something about the Last Laugh feats too. Like I said I'm in favor of just giving the feats, or at least making them way easier to obtain considering that queues never pop. Commit to PvE and just sideline PvP.
  15. DuffleBagBoii Well-Known Player

    Battlepass is the only way i can think of to get people to pvp. Maybe a pass that cost $5 & last 3-4 month and u game xp by just completing x amount of games rather then winning them.. pvp isn’t ballanced enough for them to be telling people they have to win
  16. KidKretz Committed Player

    not only did pvp die in DCUO, they literally told us they took the horse out back and shot it :p

    the potential for DCUO pvp WAS huge. and as for revenue, the biggest whales in any online game comes from competition.

    but they're content with revenue from monthly subs and the artifact/ally system in this new stat clamped pve world, who are we to say otherwise...
    • Like x 1
  17. Captain Hideous New Player

    I agree that the PvP is far too imbalanced to salvage with the powers and all. I feel that the option they should look at is to just get rid of powers altogether in PvP instances. Would also make the PvP more skill-based than it was before. Basically like Legends PvP but with our toons. If they leave PvP as is after that (no new gear, no new maps, whatever.), I can live with it.

    A small part of me thinks that the devs haven't got around to just giving the feats because there's some hope PvP can be salvaged. How? I don't know. Wishful thinking. If they just give the feats, then yeah. PvP will be dead and buried for sure.
  18. thedemonocus Loyal Player

    I think pvp is broken beyond repair and nothing the devs do will fix it and that is probably why it hasn't been worked on in years.
    • Like x 1
  19. BumblingB I got better.

    I think you are right, they would like to, but it's a hurdle that is just impossible. So they are telling themselves they will eventually do it. 8 years later, we still have it in a terrible state. It really should be addressed.
    • Like x 1
  20. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    Repairing PVP will require three things:
    1. Hardline Anticheating Measures: There is no meaningful discussion regarding participation in PVP without hardline anticheating measure installation; either at the client level, or by exclusion of PC players from PS PVP player pools.
      There is NO POINT in the discussion while rampant speedhacking is still a thing in this game, and player report only measures are not effective enough a deterrent. Either push the beds apart or get a more vicious deterrent.

    2. No More "This Version Is Best" Insistence: There is no meaningful discussion regarding structuring PVP based upon adherence to prior PVP systems.

      We didn't keep Role-based RSK because it wasn't working and it wasn't fun. I know that's not a universal opinion but it was prevalent enough for that change to occur.

      We didn't keep pre-36 because of the raging balance inconsistencies. Again, not a universal opinion, but a prevalent enough one for the change to have occurred in the first place.

      For any meaningful PVP system to operate moving forward, it will HAVE TO BE from the ground up. Start at where we are, TODAY, and what we have, TODAY, and work from there - that way you're not reinstituting a severely specific variant of PVP just to appease oldschool die-hards.

      If you want it to succeed you will NEED to include new players.
    3. Approachability: There is no meaningful discussion regarding endorsement of PVP based on prior requirements. The PVP community is a tremendously gate-kept community in this game, which has ironically become worse since PVP development stopped and the server merge occurred.

      Equipment will have to be approachable, if not reworked entirely. Feats will have to be made approachable through bonus weeks and things of that nature. It may even include reconsideration of Artifact inclusion, et cetera - the current system, honestly, feels more like "undertake the complete retooling of a character in order to compete", as opposed to oldschool PVP, where I literally showed up in my DPS Loadout and murdered people.
    Without those changes in mindset there is no point in having the discussion regarding a PVP rework. It would be mere appeasement of the old diehard segment without major systemic overhaul, and it would be pointless entirely while there is still rampant cheating.