I have been banned

Discussion in 'PC Account Support' started by Talve, Mar 25, 2013.

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  1. Talve Dedicated Player

    So if tomorrow you would try to log in and find you have been banned for glitch abuse.
    (lets say you, without knowing yourself, accidentally used some kind a clip combo over and over again that by a glitch bugged out the sound of blockbreaker for your opponents)
    There is really no way to prove if you did it intentionally or you even never knew about this existing.

    Or lets not even talk about glitches. Lets say you are i my current situation.
    You would be banned for hacking (corrupted files / lag issues and what er else has happened on previous cases).

    From the get go i have been completely honest.
    Yes, about ~9-10 years ago i have even done some actual hacking (scripting / using illegal programs written by other people).

    And no, i did not hack in DCUO. How ever currently i am banned for hacking.
    Whose there to say that you are not the next one to "be banned for hacking".

    I have already mentioned multiple problems on multiple occasions. But apparently you have skipped most of the content or not got the point, so i won't even try anymore.

    Please, quote me.
    When have i ever said i'm less guilty than someone else
    or have ever tried to convince someone that "i'm completely innocent".
    Stop creating a fairy tale.
    All i have ever said is "i know a lot of people doing the same or even more". Does not mean i'm lesser of the devils.
    Stop creating a fairy tale.

    Again, stop creating a fairy tale.
    I have never stated that it is ok to abuse bugs.
    Stop creating a fairy tale.
    • Like x 2
  2. Clutchmeister Loyal Player

    Seems to me you have absolutely 0 idea of what you're talking about.

    You realise using glitches isn't a bannable offence, because it's due to errors in the code NOT because the player is actually modifying the code himself? The devs cannot punish people for something that is created because of a mistake in the coding, they only have the right to ban someone if the player themselves has caused it (racism, trolling, insulting, hacking etc.)

    So many other games including games that have a big competitive scene have glitches and the professionals will use these glitches to gain an advantage, however these will usually get fixed by the developers. Players are not liable for using these as the developers should not have made them possible in the first place, and the player will be unable to use them once the developers have fixed their mistake.

    I mean that's almost like saying you should be banned from a nightclub for smoking in the smoking area because the owners inadvertently put a smoking area there and it wasn't actually supposed to be part of the club. You see how silly that sounds?
  3. Radium Devoted Player

    Its happened before with the Money Glitch, the Broker glitch, and the Duping Bug.

    All were mistakes that happened without 3rd party software and only using the original games code. The reason people got banned for these things is because they directly abused them. Glitches are not intended and when people abuse them they can, will, and have banned people for it.
  4. H2 Pwn Well-Known Player

    Ha, if I made a thread complaining about getting banned, I would be flamed to hell.
  5. Clutchmeister Loyal Player

    Fair enough, doesn't mean it's ethical or fair though. However, the lunge bug is hardly on the same scale as those glitches.
  6. Commander D New Player

    Talve,

    This is very interesting to me. About this same time last year, during the St. Patrick's day event, this same thing happened to me. Literally identical. Unfortunately, I was not able to sort the issue out and am still banned. I must have created 6 different accounts, because just logging into the game with a new account caused me to be banned, and once banned you can't submit tickets. I just wanted to say that I feel your pain, and hope you can see it to a better resolution.

    In all honesty I was checking around the forums and website because I was interested in perhaps picking it back up. After reading this post and seeing that the same shenanigans are still happening I am seriously reconsidering the reconsideration of playing this game again. Which is sad, because the game was truly fun to play with sound mechanics and excellent community, and I was happy dumping my money into it. I have steered clear of SOE games for the past year, and may continue to do just that. Any how, I look forward to hearing what happens with your account.

    -Commander Dooshh
  7. BadHansel New Player

    There will ALWAYS be bugs in the games, it is inevitable. Thats why every MMORPG has rules to not abuse bugs! And using a bug accidentaly is different to use it often! The devs aren't idiots!
    The consequence of abusing bugs is a ban! Sure, a permaban without a warning before is too hard, but thats another story.
  8. Moxinine Voshin New Player

    Yes, because we all know that bugs do not pop up randomly sometimes in sequential order. (Sarcasm) Clipping would be consider a bug in a lot of games. However, this is still why this debate is still up.
  9. Clutchmeister Loyal Player

    In most games using bugs (exploiting) is not a bannable offence or a suspendable, at all. Hell the competitive scene in in some games is completely based around exploiting certain bugs to get an edge. What about bunny hopping in CS? Nade bouncing in CS? Stagger in AvP 2? Rapid sniper in AvP 2? Running heavy attack with a Predator in 2010? Entering spawn points in TF2 via payload cart? Skiing in tribes? Rocket jumping in several FPS? Duping in DayZ? You should look into a concept called unintentional emergence in emergent gameplay, hell clipping can be seen as this as no one really knows if clipping was 100% meant to be in the game. MMORPG developers seem to almost shun any responsibility regarding glitches which is confusing compared to other games, or other aspects of industry involving programming.

    Hell I want to be a programmer when I leave university, and if I was programming a system where it was possible to abuse a glitch in my code to achieve something, in a business environment I would be held accountable for not coding my work properly.

    Now, for exploits such as money hacks which can have a great affect on something like the games economy (money or duping exploits for example), warnings about what they have done & reverting their bank amounts to pre-exploit using levels would be acceptable. If they couldn't fix it very quickly and they kept on abusing it, that might be worth a ban. But never can I see a situation in which it is remotely ethical, justifiable or fair to ban someone instantly for no warning for using something that is in there basically as a fault by the developers ESPECIALLY after all of the money and help Talve put into the game. Temp bans MAYBE depending on severity, but not an instant perma-ban.
    • Like x 2
  10. Talve Dedicated Player

    I agree on glitch part...

    Only problem here is,

    I'm currently officially banned for breaking rule 8/9 on their conduct, which has nothing to do with bugs, but strait forward hacking.
    I have already asked, if there are any files i could send them to confirm the situation / see what is wrong.
    I'm willing to upload even the every file from any of the DCUO folders / registry / logs / what ever else (the whole 20+ GB if its needed).
    Got nothing to hide.

    But it will probably take another week to get another response of "you have been banned for hacking/cheating/what ever else".
    And maybe in 2-3 weeks i get to the situation where someone gives me actual answer if there is something to send or not.
  11. eel_nigiri New Player

    The devs have a right to ban anyone they want for any reason. It's their product, you have no rights here, they can do anything they want. End of story. It's in the EULA you agreed to when you installed the game and made an account. Every company is like this, Valve, Activision, EA, whatever. They all reserve the right to ban anyone for any reason they want at any time, they also often have a EULA clause that makes it so you can't pursue legal action against them for such instances. A EULA is a legally binding contract and you should read them instead of just scrolling to the bottom and clicking "ok" instantly.

    Your analogy is also a bit off. A more proper analogy would be if a ton of money just showed up in your bank account out of nowhere one day and you went on a spending spree instead of alerting your bank that they made a big error. You know that money is not your own, you know it is wrong to spend it, you know it was clearly a glitch that caused this to happen, so if you take it, the law and society at large is going to see it as no different from theft. Likewise, in a game, you know when something is not intended, you know it's wrong, you know it's unfair, but if you do it anyway, you deal with the consequences. You make your own bed in these cases, you run the gambit. Most people simply assume they will not get caught.

    In short, players are liable for everything they do in a game. SOE also banned people in Planetside 2 for using the infamous repair glitch a while back. John Smedley, the CEO of SOE, tweeted that anyone using the repair bug, intentional or otherwise, was risking a permanent account closure. His logic is that even if you get it accidentally, the right thing to do is log off to clear the bug and not run around enjoying it. He is 100% right.
    • Like x 1
  12. Talve Dedicated Player

    And that is already a huge difference between PS2 and DCUO...as in DCUO they never say "what is a glitch and what is not".

    When it comes to EULA, even though in theory it should like you said "completely defend them", in most cases i know when people have actually went that far and contacted their local company which works with customer rights/protection, SOE/pro7 have backed off instantly (most cases have been from Britain).
  13. Clutchmeister Loyal Player

    I was questioning the ethics and fairness of it too, you kinda missed the whole point. Not to mention just questioning hansel's black and white view on "bug use = ban".

    And that analogy is also off, as the person in general didn't actually cause the problem. Let's put it this way. The vending machine at my university has a failsafe for if something gets stuck and doesn't drop. If something is paid for, is dispensed but doesn't pass through the sensor at the bottom, your money isn't used up and you can use it on any other item. However if you turn it off and on, the machine isn't programmed to save information so it resets. I got 3 free packets of crisps that day, and all I got was a "oh my bad I'll fix that".
    • Like x 1
  14. BadHansel New Player

    Only one example for the MOST other MMORPG's:
    " Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;"

    clipping is a known mechanic in beat-em-up-games. And don't come always with clipping as the only argument... (it is so annoying) Its no excuse for using bugs.

    Programming is sooooo complex, that it would be inhuman, if there wouldn't be bugs. thats why there are rules, to not abuse them.

    End of story.
  15. Clutchmeister Loyal Player

    There is always bugs yes BUT that doesn't stop the devs from fixing them does it? As a programmer myself I would take responsibility and fix my mistakes. If a player kept on abusing a pretty large bug if I was struggling to fix it, and kept on doing it even after being warned then I would temp ban him. But never would I insta-ban someone for something as small as the lunge bug, that's just bad practice. Not just because it's unfair but because word of mouth is a powerful thing too, it could put a lot of potential players off the game.

    However SOE I don't believe is the problem, all of the dealings I have had with them have been great and they have been very helpful. I think this is more to do with pro7 and them being inexperienced with the game.

    This is why having experienced players involved with dev teams is always a good idea, just because someone programmed something doesn't mean they are going to know as much about what is possible in their own system compared to an experienced player.
  16. BadHansel New Player

    You don't know how big the bug is. Sure, maybe it seems a little bug, but you don't know the code and which things does affect the bug. So the devs have priorities what to do first. And Mepps wrote, that they will optimize the code. He said for performance, but maybe in this way they could also remove many bugs.

    Insta-Permaban is not ok for such a thing. Thats also my oppinion. At least a warning before the ban is neccessary.
  17. Itazuki New Player

    Abusing bugs/ glitches is bannable. It does happen too... I agree that it should happen also. No matter whose fault for the glitch/bug being there, opportunities to do "wrong" things will always be presented. It's whether you use those opportunities knowingly or not that defines the matter of whether you deserved punishment or not.

    Agreed that a warning should be given, or a 2-4 day ban. With notices of what glitch they were abusing. If they attempt to do so again, then a perma ban.

    Honestly, the mere fact that a GM will ask you to uninstall any programs that could trip the detection system, and to reinstall the game to remove tampered with files, shows you that they do NOT investigate before banning. If they did, they would know for sure that it was a hack/glitch and wouldn't ask you to make sure it wasn't just something causing their system to detect you. They would already know for sure you did wrong or not if they personally investigated.
  18. Saami Loyal Player

    That is common practice in MMOs or atleast in those games what ive played.
    I believe its jsut something that they have to say. Even when they know 100% what happened and what was the glitch/exploit/hack.
    • Like x 1
  19. Itazuki New Player

    That's true, could be. Just thought it odd to ask that for something you seen yourself.

    Like.. "Hey I seen you stab that guy.... But lets make sure you really stabbed him and that wasn't just butter you threw at him."
  20. Clutchmeister Loyal Player

    It shouldn't even be that difficult to fix. Let's say that the 1h lunge animation is 0.75 seconds long (I don't know if this is accurate, it's just a made up number). Now, when a player holds down left click, they will have some kind of condition that says "if (e.button == MouseButtons.left) { //Do stuff }" in the do stuff part you would enable a timer to check how long it is down. If it is down longer for a certain amount of time, perform a lunge. When the animation starts, initiate another timer which won't allow you to perform another lunge until the animation is 100% over "if (lungeAnimationTimer >= 0.8) {disable mouseeventcheck}" (note this is psuedocode). This should prevent the game from checking mouse inputs until the amount of time the timer has been initiated is equal to or greater than 0.8 seconds.

    Now they might have a more efficient way of doing it, such as just checking when the animation is playing but this could be returning a false result that states the animation is over a little earlier than it actually is. Hence, the timer should be able to fix it.

    I guess people are always going to see things differently to me since I've always played games competitively, I'm used to seeing everyone using everything they can to get an advantage. Other players will see this as unfair and as something they shouldn't abuse (which I can understand).
    • Like x 1
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