I don't feel like I'm on a game anymore...

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Sollace, Oct 14, 2023.

  1. Alushaun Well-Known Player

    Another early sign of the declining effort was Collections that reward a stack of marks instead of rare content.
    Thankfully they have not given up on rare content in other places. I did however notice this one pretty hard when it started years ago.
    • Like x 1
  2. Sollace Committed Player

    The problem is, as I said on DCUO, taking a break is like being punished, because afterwards you have to make up for everything that wasn't done during the break, and again, if you come back after X amount of DLC, if you weren't there for the open-world DLC boss feats, it's hard to do, because hardly anyone comes back because DLC is no longer fashionable, just like certain feats that require you to farm X amount of X thing.

    I think this has a lot to do with older players who would certainly like to come back to the game, but are ultimately demotivated by all the catching up that can be too much.
    • Like x 4
  3. Cyclonic Dedicated Player

    People overestimate the amount of time it takes with less players for most things. I do it by myself mostly between instances. The bosses will always have their day. You will eventually log in and see an epic spam phase happening for every old boss that you still need. All it takes is a few friends to start you off and LFG if you insist on pushing for it yourself. I caught up from a 4 or 5 year break pretty quickly.
  4. Dev72 Dedicated Player

    The problem is, a large portion of the community treats this game as a full time job in spurts. A DLC is released, they spam until they get everything up (which depending on the difficulty, takes a few days, or a few weeks.. player's choice)..then takes a hiatus for several months, or complain for several months that they are bored and that the game is dead.....rinse repeat.

    The only thing killing this game....is the community and their toxicity...it is what it is.
    • Like x 1
  5. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Is it more the time it takes to level up in these systems or is it more what you actually have to do or perform to level up in these systems? Or both or something else entirely?
    • Like x 3
  6. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    This 'game' became a 'job' a long time ago for me. Granted...I have no one but myself to blame, but I can say that in the last 6-12 months I've spent more time running seasonals or events, or running daily/weekly missions to build currency for the eventual add on... feat related...account bound...I'll never wear them, styles, or for 'count' feats, than I have running anything I'd WANT to run for feats or fun. Adding stabilizer run and a seasonal vault and race isn't helping that any either.

    And I can't blame it on Allies....don't really use them past my original foray into them....or artis...I haven't even applied any XP the last 2 2x weeks outside of dumping in storage artis to save inventory space. The whole game seem a huge pile of 'NEED' to do vs 'WANT' to do anymore.
    • Like x 4
  7. kallader Committed Player

    Bring back different currency for each Dlc This is killing the game experience we should have to actually run the dlc to loot is content and buy the styles etc right now all is a mess i can loot other dlc style as normal drop doing content that have nothing to do with that dlc and all raid are dead because no one forced to play them all you have to do is change the currency page in menu so it become a full page
  8. Spood Boost Well-Known Player

    It's the amount of time it takes to level up within the system, which then creates a flow on effect to the second where it then affects what we have to actually do.

    When we're collecting things like cataylsts, food to level up OP items, Nth Metal, Ally favor - there is a rough amount a reasonable person can farm within a reasonable period of play time and the requirements within the system unfortunately far exceed what this type of player can obtain, this then leaves the game feeling like its employment rather than enjoyment.

    By the time you've then got what you've needed to level the artifact, ally or whatever there's a reasonable chance its become irrelevant or no longer the most useful item and it adds to player demoralization.

    If the systems themselves required less I think it would help improve engagement and prevent player burn out.
    • Like x 4
  9. zNot Loyal Player

    If you want to reduce the grind remove episode augments they are litteraly the most annoying thing to level up and takes forever by that time its up its useless and gets useless once the new episode comes.

    For the OP item atleast its grindy but has no failure chance on breakthrough and is still useable for 1-2 episodes more.
    • Like x 2
  10. BumblingB I got better.

    It's really too many things that require a lot to catch up in. For a player to really be caught up, lets say, they took a year off, which is roughly 3 episodes, they would need to:

    • Bring up 6-12 adaptive augments. (Depending on if they play more than one role.)
    • Bring up their origin augments 3 stages. (is it 60 levels?)
    • Work on running the content they missed, which includes grind feats, like bounties. This is actually very difficult to do when the content is no longer new and players aren't spamming it.
    • Work on the new content that is out.
    • 3 OP items to work on.
    This is on a micro scale, if a player is new or took an extended break that lasted a few years, they could need to do so much more. A lot of the systems that we have now are all based on grind. If you were not there when they were released, you are at a HUGE climb to catch up. Then a new one comes out and compounds on the last one. For a character to be comfortable, they either spend a very BIG amount of money, grind hard, or just walk away. I had a leaguemate that came in through another game. He dropped quite a bit on the game only to still struggle, because feats really do impact your character. He ultimately walked away. Some players like grind, but there are walls that make it hard.
    Artifacts, Allies, and Augments, the triple A's, are for lateral progression, but really are starting to become necessary to even the playing field. Like, the game doesn't need these to be successful, but to really enjoy it, you kinda need them. And as much as it's been mentioned that content isn't developed around them, they are, otherwise we would not have had an adjustment to EOG. IE, they are vertical progression at this point and we have to do this for more than one character on your account. (Which is also why we seem to have majority of players do 1 character accounts.)

    Edit: I also agree with zNot, can we just do away with the whole breakthrough system for Adaptive Augments? Like, they shouldn't be having them in the first place, especially since they can go down to 40% success rate. Like, that's not fun at all and it's only for one DLC.
    • Like x 4
  11. Ghostknight Well-Known Player

    It is both and more. The game seems to only be about leveling up as fast as possible to endgame, which is where the majority of the player base is or want to be at right now. Starting from the beginning seems a daunting task to new players who go to HOL and see endgame players (most well-earned) running around like gods. Very few want to start from the beginning and enjoy the story of the game; and put in the time (years) like I did to get to endgame lvl. if you make leveling up faster you will have to put out more new content faster, because the player base will get bored quickly with a new DLC. The players that pay to get right to endgame lvl get bored too or upset they can't get the skill points or rewards from the early game.

    The early game is nearly empty, because new players find themselves running around alone or using OMNI to be outshined by endgame players. The question should be, how do you make the game exciting and engaging for new, intermediate and high lvl players.

    I don't believe leveling up people faster will be the best answer. There are some very knowledgeable fair-minded players on the forum who could provide excellent suggestions on how this might be done; fairly for everyone at every level of the game. I know I can tell who those people on the forum are and therefore I know you DEVs can tell too. My input is the game should not just be about endgame, but the entire game which would increase our community size and make EG7/DI want to invest more into this game we love.

    I hope I have not offended the Devs or any of my fellow DCUO players.

    Peace and DCUO Forever
    • Like x 1
  12. The Doctor Time Lord Committed Player

    I'd say that the issue is in the DNA of an MMO as old as DCUO. Being twelve years old, the game has grinding built into it's core design. For players like me who have been playing since launch (and MMOS for longer than that) grinding is a normal (even enjoyable) part of the experience.

    However, over the last several years I have noticed that many players have become less tolerant of this mechanic or any sort of repetition in game play. Grinding and a certain amount of repetition is necessary, IMO, in order to give players something to do between DLC's which take some time to develop.

    The question would seem to be, can DCUO (or any older MMO) "reinvent" itself to reflect this newer approach to gamer expectations without being rebuilt from the ground up? Taking into account the economics of such a change, I would say not.

    In my (semi) humble opinion, I do think that periodic breaks mitigate the sense of "game as task" that some players feel. From the developer's standpoint, I think there may be a middle ground in changing up the mechanics of the grind (either in gear or content) to the extent that time and money permits.
  13. GhostRyder3000 Loyal Player

    To me... It's not the actual grind that's an issue...

    Progressing your character was always a grind... You would play for a week or more just to get enough marks for a piece of armor...

    You would do alerts to bid on rewards... It was a grind... but it was progress... and the nature of the game.



    The problem now is that we aren't grinding for progress.... we are grinding for the replacement of progress... Artifacts/augments/allies... most of which are only leveled by a horrible "%" system.

    Sure, gaining an item in the bid system wasn't a guarantee that you would get an item that you need... but, it never seemed that the system was designed to work against you... or hid behind a "pay for success" scheme.

    It was hard/tad tedious... but seemed more "honest" back then.
    • Like x 2
  14. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    To me it is the time it takes to level them up. Ally’s and artifacts.

    I feel like the amount of time it takes us to level up and op piece should be the same time it would take with daily play to level up Ally’s and artifacts.

    It takes about 3 months of daily play to fully level up your op item, this can be reduced obviously with some luck and money on the broker. I feel like that is a fair amount of time for an artifact or an ally to be fully leveled. Or maybe make it take as much as the bottle city soda takes.

    I’ve been back since January … I have exactly 0 ally’s at level 10 the closest I have is a level 8 I basically get them to level 6 and forget them and only level the ones I’m gonna use for sure … the rest just sit there never being leveled at all.

    I’ve heard and read all the tricks on how to better utilize the artifact nth metal how to farm it better and what strategy to use when leveling them … waiting for a double xp week nd that may or may not come.

    This all over complicates something that shouldn’t need us to make a strategy for it … get nth metal feeed it into the artifact no hoops to jump through to make sure you’re getting the most out of it no strategies to ensure you’re leveling it more efficiently. I just want to feed it and go about playing without hoarding them for double xp weekends that is not fun to me.

    I personally would like to see more artifact type systems added to our characters to further customize how we play to enhance our abilities and our role..

    Like id love to see you guys remove weapon mastery and replace it with an artifact weapon system … where it no longer is part of the cr equation… once you get the artifact weapon you like you keep it until you find something you like better. Example kryptonian brawling .. it would replace the standard range attacks with heat vision … tap range a single target attack hole range a cone attack… instead of the kick it’s replaced with the uppercut the lrypronian legends characters do.

    You could do the same with Batman’s martial arts or even do catwomans martial arts , Doctor fates handblasters, hal Jordan’s brawling etc.

    I’d love to see a fully customizable side kick system … you’d provide us with augments that would make them do certain things in battle. We can design them fully what weapon they use what movement mode what they are wearing what skin hair etc, the body type. They would be out with us 100% of the time fighting along side us this would be something where you’d level up the augments you place on them similar to artifacts.

    These are things I’d love to see you guys do but not if they take the same amount of time with out using any tricks or strategy or waiting for double xp stuff to fully level them … that would just make boring and a drag …

    The whales are going to spend the 100s of dollars it takes to fully level the new stuff you guys put out not matter what they are gonna spend it and have it immediately leveled.

    For those of us who don’t want to spend money on it … we are asked. (Without using any fancy strategy or wait for xp weekends) a very very long time to fully level them … if you’re just playing the newest content and maybe a seasonal a day like I do .. it would be 9 month or so to fully level an artifact just one … that doesn’t make me want to keep invest the time into it that makes me want to say forget it.
    • Like x 3
  15. AZPrime Active Player


    I can't speak for everyone, but to me it feels like the game has had multiple systems added over the years that end up becoming compiled on top of each other to form a sort of messy, layered sandwich.

    The base game is the bread, the story and combat related stuff is the tomatoes, but then you have artifacts as three different kinds of cheese, allies as three different cuts of meat, head and body augments are pickles and lettuce respectively, and then you have extras like the Affinity Mods as your garnish and condiments.

    Individually, these systems are ok at best, but they lack the synergy necessary to make a good package as a whole. And considering most players have more than one toon, that essentially means every player has to make multiple messy sandwiches, often at the same time, with only so many ingredients to go around.

    If there were ways to cut down on some of the bloat to make these multiple systems easier or faster to work with on multiple characters, that would be absolutely beneficial to everyone who struggles with keeping their characters at maximum efficiency, especially when new, more interesting options like new allies and artifacts are introduced on a regular basis.
    • Like x 4
  16. Zamara Dedicated Player

    If you're low on inventory you need to keep feeding them as you get them to be able to get the drops you're actually looking for.
    I just want to add in to this the fact that for each episode you're working on there's about 10 different items to keep track of just to level up your augments and OP items.
    3 catalysts for the ep specific augments
    At least 2 for the OP items
    3 or 4 types of "food" items for those.
    There's also 7 different stats for generator mods on top of that, there's 4 tiers of them i think counting the crafted ones?
    That's 28 new items just for generator mods that may or may not stack up depending on where you get them from. And you probably need just 3 to 5 of those 7 stats.
    So ignoring the generator mods you need at least a row of your inventory to keep those items on if you don't use them as you get them. 5 or 4 slots if you're using the food ASAP.
    So if you're running 3 episodes that's 12-30 slots you need just to level up 3-5 items that will be irrelevant on the next episode and 6 that are probably already irrelevant for your character outside of the feats they might give and the instance specific bonuses.
    I get that the specific drops were there to have us play the corresponding content for each item but if you're behind on episodes it adds up over time, and the way the gear just scales up as your CR naturally increases sends some of those items out of relevancy faster than you can level them and it just ends up being a grind for a few feat points in the end for most of those items.
    Sure you can just not open the boxes and stop your CR from increasing for a while but letting stack those boxes up will make you regret it if you don't have a lot of inventory space available.
    I had 160+ boxes stacked up from various episodes and decided to open them up this weekend, it took hours to get through them because of the many different items you get & most of those drops went straight to getting salvaged or sold.
    You'd think opening older boxes before newer ones would let you get the most out of the boxes gear wise but turns out it doesn't, after 90+ dark knights boxes all my gear was at 350 & the shock to the system gear drops i was getting were all useless stat wise.
    To me personally it's not about the time it takes to level the different things up, it's the fact that there's so many different items that are practically the same and at the end of the day just take up more space. At one point I had to take a character's inventory and use it to keep all the different types of catalysts just to try to keep track of how many i had, and even though i had many just seeing that there's RNG in the ascension kept me from actually trying to ascend them after a certain point.
    • Like x 2
  17. PrincessBunny Well-Known Player

    I feel your having to constantly chase these items and it does take a long time to the point of it being like a job to a lot of people ie, the grind, While other games have grind as it is an MMO, people make alts since as you have stated we won't be getting any new powers. so it does take a long time to level these items.

    Allies: There are so many Legendary Allies and it takes soooo long to level them for even just one character, why not more Allies like Krypto, House of Legends Bot , Cyborg, Oracle and Calculator Bot. Compared to Legendary which just going to cyborg to buy the ones I don't have and that's 12 Legendary and the ones from Time Capsules another which is another 6-10 Legendary Allies, well over 20+ legendary allies, there should be some sort of balance.

    There needs to be a better system in place for alt characters to because having these alts people do spend money on them via membership or buying items from the marketplace, so the people with alts are spending more, till they just get tired of it and go too only have 1 to 2 characters max because they are just tired of it, there is so many allies it's like people always chasing them to and it's just never ending.

    The system should maybe have been you level lets say ally slots and those slots would never max out for example like body augments they go up xxx amount ever new dlc so could ally slots make it more reasonable and have a better way for people to earn ally favor put a chance to get 100 to 200 ally favor in the omnibus box. I have had league mates that are now just tired of chasing these items and went from have 2-10 characters to just 1 it was just to much for them.

    I just want to add while it might be a lot of work since Allies and Artifacts were added , the League hall buffs and Affinity Mods should have been updated to actually give buffs or other synergy to these items.

    League Halls need love just gunna put this here the buffs are sooo outdated and please remove the prestige cap.

    DLC Augments: I should not need a seal to break through and they should not need so many materials for a 6 month DLC and then become useless.

    Omnipotence Items: These items need to last longer, I do like the system I just don't like the short life span these have, I remember having to run Assault & Battery Raid so many times to try to get the OP Rings and they lasted for a really long time. I am all about recycling and maybe it's time to find a way to recycle the OP items instead of them just sitting in my inventory I keep them because I put so much time and effort to level them I just can't salvage or delete them.

    Artifacts: I did not like the change made to artifacts when we were told it was being stream lined! we are getting less nth metal no matter how you stack it , we use to get 500, 200 < these I just want to point out we no longer get the 200 nth metal got changed to 100 and the 500 we don't even get anymore there is no way someone here can tell me that 500 nth metal stack of 999 equals to the 10 nth metal stack of 999, because we only get the 100 and the 10's now. People are earning less, I also did the math even the Nth metal from Dr. Fate does not add up to the loss, of running the vault once a week and getting the 1k Flawless and if you got lucky you got a 500, a 200 and same with the stabilizer event you had a chance of getting a 500 or 200 nth metal. While I was lucky and ran my vaults almost every single day just for Nth Metal and lot of new players no longer have that option.

    In the end this a business I think everyone here gets it and DCUO needs to keep the lights on and while we all appreciate what the devs do, there just needs to be something better for everyone to make it not feel like a job. People now are throwing their hands up and leaving they have had enough.
    • Like x 4
  18. Snoopy Level 30

    For me personally it's both even after chasing gear, augments and feats just to keep up with DLC raises to have to then deal with 3 forms of pay to win for a "free to play" is a crazy amount to chase to be competitive or successful. It discourages new players from sticking around after completing the beginner leveling portion of the game. It also seems like Devs move on to the next thing after the well is dry from the last form of pay to win. The game is being structured around these pay to win items under the guise of "different ways to play" is a straight up lie. These are all necessities and not "options" for end game.

    Time Capsules - By putting the incentive of skill points behind the items in time capsules with zero chance of getting everything without having to go to the broker to spend in-game cash. Hearing stories of players throwing $500 real life money into time capsules and still not completing everything is insane. Other games have a pity system after so many Loot Boxes/Time Capsules are opened. Less focus has been put on Time Capsules with the lack of more desirable items and styles. Skill points have now taken a back seat to Artifacts to where players are putting pressure on other players that don't have maxed out Artifacts.

    Artifacts - With almost every new DLC that introduces new Artifacts just so happens to be the perfect Artifacts to get the new elite content/feats done. Without Artifacts and the stats you have without them is a joke. You need Artifacts to play the game. A controller player with no Artifacts isn't giving out enough power for any role in a raid and will bottom out trying to power the group. Same goes for any other role and what it takes for that role to support the group and get the content done. Artifacts have now taken a back seat to Allies to where players with low or no Allies aren't getting invited to all forms of content.

    Allies - I voiced my concern day one to the introduction of Allies to the game with no way to transfer over Ally Favor from one Ally to another. Its like you learned from your mistake of letting players level new Artifacts with old ones. With the constant addition of Meta changing Allies it is impossible to gain enough Ally favor through active regular play to level any Legendary Ally without going to the market place. I was mocked by a council member that doesn't actively play the game anymore at that time and even now that DCUO doesn't support "cannibalism". I was never given an explanation to why a system wasn't put in place to extract Ally favor from one to put into another. Heroes and Villains fall out of favor from Allies all the time in the comics movies and shows and team up with new ones. Allies turn into digital action figures you don't play with anymore and become useless after new ones are added.

    With everything I stated above and having to deal with how this game works. Devs are taking more and more avenues away from players that play actively or smart. With the removal of stabilizers from Dr Fate, Dakota City and Log in Rewards has slowed down players from opening Time Capsules for free from this "free to play" game. With the nerf to the Nth Metal we get passively playing has slowed down players from Leveling new Artifacts between double Artifact XP events for free from this "free to play" game. The nerf to Ally Favor from when Allies were added compared to what players are getting now has slowed down players from leveling new Allies for free from this "free to play" game.

    I know this is a live service game and you need to make money to keep the game running. But there are other live service games that don't rely on pay to win to support the game. The players supporting this game are the player the like to role-play and the end game players that reset/buy replays to burn though the DLC. My suggestion is to put new styles/emotes/trinkets/pets on the market place. Also bring back SM and make it an endless wave version and rotate the maps every few months. Take away the pressure on players to chase and level these forms of pay to win for the main game. Focus more supporting the game through non pay to win means on the market place and year round competitive end game event.
    • Like x 5
  19. Grip Committed Player

    I can't fully relate to pressure or frustration expressed about it, but all the various features and options that need time and attention to feed definitely add to the action time soft gap between me and the super active grinders I know, especially early on in a release cycle. It may be just a small thing, but being able to drown my toons' body augs in exos a week ahead of some of those past eps was missed this time. In any case, that'd be my only hitch, needing even more time and materials to get locked and loaded than I used to compared to the go-getters around me. But when I have a DC in sweatpants marathon day, I make up some ground. Gotta admit here, while I'm empathetic to this sentiment, staff interest makes me a little nervous lol I kinda like having cool new toys to pick from...
  20. RunfromDanger Man Dedicated Player

    In my case sir, I only have myself to blame. None of it is on y’all or the game. I will elaborate though in case it helps in any way.
    I’ve advanced enough that my SP is at a comfortable top half of the leaderboard level, so I don’t go out of my way to get feats anymore because I don’t have the desire to advance further. But that’s on me, I’ve become complacent.
    Styles, I love styles. The people that I’ve annoyed enough to be memorable know I love styles. However I now have so many style pieces that new ones are tested to see if they will improve my existing armory styles. But that’s just because y’all have done such a fantastic job of providing constant style updates that I’ve run out of ideas.
    Elite. I’ve never been an elitist. Never had any interest in completing it 100% and never understood the desire. So my inability to finish elite stuff is my own fault. My unwillingness to grind is my fault. It’s necessary for improvement and encourages gameplay but I’ve lacked the drive to grind for a long time. My desire to 100% finish a game died in the year 1993 with the game Myst. Lol
    Bases. I love decorating. Again, just ask anyone I annoy with it. Right now I have a weird obsession with libraries. But I’ve put so much time and love into my bases that I don’t see myself tearing them down to start over and with the league hall maxed out on pieces I’m running out of ideas. So like with the styles, y’all have just spoiled me too much and I’m too good at it.

    None of those things are complaints. They’re just statements that are made in case they can be productive input. If the statements are not productive or aren’t helpful feel free to ignore them.
    Y’all do a great job. I love all y’all, even the ones I don’t know. And tell the engineers I love them best because engineers are awesome unsung heroes.
    Keep up the good work. Y’all don’t get enough positive feedback in my opinion but y’all do a great job.

    “You’re going to make a difference. A lot of times it won’t be huge, it won’t be visible even. But it will matter just the same.” Commissioner James Gordon