How do the Devs define "minimum cr"?

This is an honest-to-goodness education question. Flurry of threads going on right now with the release of episode 15 and the reported difficulty (read: guaranteed failure) of a duo or raid of minimum cr players playing the new content when they are allowed to do so. In other words, the instance says min 113cr but if you go in with all 113cr, it would be impossible. In my mind, this is exactly the same series of conversations that occurred during the Summer Seaonal that allows minimum 10 cr although it's unlikely or impossible a group of lvl 10's could do it on their own.

So, maybe all the grief and drama stems from the fact that the players and the Devs do not have a common understanding of the term "minimum cr". In my mind, "minimum cr" means a full group of minimum cr players could participate in the instance with the maximum amount of difficulty but still complete it. In other words, achievable by the lowest common cr.

In the case of Corrupted Zamarron with the definition above, two (2) cr113 players should be able to complete the duo. It would be very difficult but achievable.

In the case of the Summer Seasonal with Orm/Aquaman, four (4) lvl 10s should be able to complete the event. It would be very difficult but achievable.

Would be grateful if we could a Dev to chime in and set the record straight. Is "minimum cr" correctly defined above or does it mean something different to how the Devs have designed the game?

Please and thank you

The intended Minimum CR for this new content was 124. It got lowered but the difficulty didn't. That's why things are odd in this dlc.

2 113s did do the duo while it was on test. It took roughly 80 minutes and they played a lot of it as 1 healer and 1 tank.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...-corrupted-zamaron.256580/page-3#post-3353841

There are 2 other active threads WITH response to this same question....
not to mentioned they added answered the question when this hit live


And people say the Devs don't listen???

Not true. I'm tracking the threads actively, and the Devs have not explicitly stated their position on this topic, only commenting on tweaks or adjustments to the specific instances. As Sbel pointed out, point of entry for the raid was lowered it the difficulty was not. Does that imply to you that an 8 player group with all cr113 players could complete it? Or does that imply a mixed group could I it with cr113 players getting carried?

But let's be honest inless the adds and bosses take a drop there's no way a reasonable group is going to have any 113 players in the raid.

1 or 2, yeah a reasonable group could probably do it. No way you're getting anywhere as a whole group though.

Because it was lowered to 113 to allow people to go from AF2 to Ep 15, I would hope those players would continue to play AF2 for marks and buy the 118 vendor gear. This will allow them to hit 120+ and start doing the Ep 15 group content.

I was in some pug groups in lab with everyone below 110 but me, and it took over 1 hour to complete. I would hope players would have the courtesy to get a full set of 98 gear, but they didn't. Using the random queue I would see people below 105 in those raids all the time. I had to stop using the random queue after a 2nd hour plus lab run. It's funny how in LFG sometimes the person forming the group is the lowest CR (below 120) and they are asking for 120+ people.

Ok, first off...thanks for chiming in. It's appreciated and important.

Second, this is an important clarification as this confirms that new (or really any) content is not meant to be completed by the minimum cr players unless they're being carried in a much stronger group. At best, minimum cr players can get far enough to pick up some trash gear that would help them ramp up, but it would take multiple tries and multiple trash gear drops before their cr is high enough to make it through.

Why is this important to the examples in the OP? Because when posts show up about Seasonal events hitting too hard for level 10's, we now know that's by design (within reason). Level 10's are not meant to complete the Seasonals without being carried. Same goes for every other types of instance. So when a player sees a "minimum cr" rating on any content, it really means "this is the cr to get you into the instance, but you won't make it at minimum unless somebody carries you".

Dlc jumping has a catastrophic effect on the general community, People at a stage that should be fully knowledgeable of a mechanic simply are not with Dlc jumping, you should not be able to be\have access in a raid with cr131 enemies and not understand what a bowmaster or punisher when doing previous raids because you just skipped a entire dlc, cr111 for Ngn hh was very low but 113 vs cr131 enemies? Logic is really not present there in my opinion.

I know this maybe doesn't have anything to do with the topic of this post but I just want to ask you something. How does the CR requirement for T1 stuff works?
I'm asking this because I saw a player in a duo yesterday who was dying really fast, he got killed by the adds as soon as he got inside and he got disconnected like 10 second later.
I inspected him to see if there was something wrong with his CR or his gear and as soon as the window popped I saw he only had 6 pieces of gear equipped and his equipped CR was 6. I looked for him in the census to see if that was his real CR and it wasn't, his CR is 15. If CR relevancy works how i think it does he wouldn't get any loot so what's the point of even going inside??
I still did the duo and I'm 100% sure he didn't get loot because I waited until he got removed from the instance to kill the first boss, he only got loot from the adds.

Agreed. That's precisely why Mepps pointed out in another thread that moving to the monthly episode schedule makes the skipping effect impossible since at least one episode purchase is required to unlock the remaining set.

Very likely this is what I call a "birthday kit" one or more pieces of higher level trade-able iconic armor (ivys belt, abbras shirt, etc...) that you can transfer to a new 30 toon that pumps up his cr just by being in his stash. I normally run through at least all the solos before trying for group content to make sure my toon is at least a little capable of surviving, but some people are just too impatient.

I don't see why anyone is still questioning this....

The CR for nexus used to be 86, you had to get two more points higher to run it versus the CR needed after you officially hit T5 (you used to hit T5 a5 84 an than had to be 86 to run it).

While you can argue that Nexus had several other issues that no longer exist for this current OP, it's not the first time something like this has happened.

I agree 100%. Like 111 CR, for HH??? Why? It makes things complicated and messy, especially when you have that one guy in your group who's like "Well it says minimum 111, why can't I come?" Then I say "It's just too low, I'm sorry" and they're like "WHY?! It says right there 111!" and this just continues until they (finally) leave. (I really don't like kicking them I'd like them to understand why they can't come so that they don't think I'm an elitist b***h.) I understand that some people like a challenge, and I'm all up for challenges but an all 113 group for the new raid? All 111 group for Happiness Home? I don't think so. xD Maybe if all the roles are OP powers, and very very skilled players, but even then, I think it's safe to call it impossible. Or maybe they make it this way so that high people can smuggle their low friends and help them skip some DLCs... But why would DCUO want to allow this? I honestly don't know why they'd make the minimum CR 10-15 less than the recommended.

I'm sorry Mepps but I agree with the OP on this one and that explanation just makes no sense at all. To me if you say the minimum Cr necessary to do a raid/alert/duo/whatever is CR 113 then to the vast majority of people that means they should be able to walk in with a CR 113 character and complete that mission... Now that does NOT mean it needs to be a walk at CR 113 but 80 minutes to complete a DUO? (if accurate) That is not by any stretch of anyone's imagination a successful duo that was a exercise is humiliation and degradation. Good grief I have seen players take off and just quit a team because we suffered one team wipe and the raid was only about 5 minutes old... There is not a player out there, aside from those tow on test, that would put themselves through that much torture and anguish for two lousy Marks and a couple potentially helpful armor drops

Now if some one had taken two 113 s in and completed the same duo in let's say 15 or even 20 minutes with only a couple of team wipes then I could see saying that was the minimum CR for that mission.. its difficult, your not going to breeze through and if not careful you may die a couple times .. But you can finish up. See that's what you want to do.. MAKE people happy so they don't get insane and just quit playing altogether. Again not saying dull the thing down so a 113 can push through in 8-10 minutes and move on to the next thing but if you're going to let them in telling them Hey IF YOUR LUCKY you might beat a boss and get a drop but you'll never be able to finish this at THAT level.. That is the sort of thing that drives people away.

Now while I am on here and discussing CR limits... Can I ask exactly why this stuff was originally designed to not let anyone in before they hit CR 124? At CR 117 I lost the ability to do a ton of stuff in Gotham under Siege and in the Metropolis Historical District and I was under the impression the NEW stuff we got was supposed to replace what I lost. Now aside form a couple new alts all of mine are sitting between Cr 124 and Cr 120 but anyone JUST coming up would have found themselves still only able to do 1 alert 1 raid and 2 duos (along with the 1 daily and the 1 weekly bounty) just like we did all did while we waiting for this NEW monthly stuff to arrive. Shouldn't this new stuff always have been geared to be accessible by any player at CR 117 and above? I am probably stating something that was beaten to death while this content was on test but seriously.. who made that initial decision to leave us with so little to do for 7 combat ratings? And how did anyone think that was a good idea?

Frankly I think you all went a bit too far by dropping it to CR 113 .. at CR 113 I have a pile of stuff I can do to earn marks that doesn't make me feel ;like someone is poking a stick in my eye. But at 117 suddenly most of that all goes away and like the majority of players out there I was under the impression when the new stuff arrived it would fill that void .

But he was way too impatient, he only had 6 pieces of gear equipped. Weapon, feet and hands were level 4, his back was 27, legs 17 and head 11. What I wanted to know was how is it that he could even queue for the duo with a CR of 15, isn't there a required CR for those instances?

Not to mention, it is a bit unfair to those who grinded the Halls of Power for months just for others to skip it altogether. It lessens the feeling of accomplishment for those who actually did the work to access the new content. It's like when a teacher says "Huge project due on blah blah." And you put in a ton of work and a lot of all-nighters to get that project done, then the day it's due, the teacher collects it. Wait, there's more! Then there's those students who turn it in the next week and still get A's! Uh... what? If you don't understand why this would be hurtful to those who did it on time, and in a way diminish their A's, then you probably aren't someone who values their time/work.

You did get something out of it! You got to enjoy new content, learning it mastering it and being OP while it was the best out.

If you want to be "done" forever, you should probably play something that is not a MMO. If the old stuff out classes the new stuff, the game dies.