How about Buffing WM

i use to dislike WM but then it grew on me slight more, thats not to say i prefer it over the old way of dpsing but hey i'm use to it. But along came AM's and they've simple taken center stage for the time being and i have for one feel that they shouldn't be superior to WM DPS Reasons Y

>WM requires more skill points if you want to maximize your WM to its fullest (meaning using melee and range while maintaing crits): u need 3 WM tress or north of 120+ SP. with WM you only need the 77 crits the rest is simply for stats

>Also with WM you are at the mercy of how the loot drops: For instance i can not maximize my dmg because an elite 101 dw will not drop for me and since i need a dw to do my best dmg and the extra dps (weapon stat) gained.

> Next, WM loadouts aren't as confining: AM's are nearly cookie cutter since the moves that work with them are reduced in alot of powersets. with WM you can use nearly all your power moves as well as iconics and movement mode with pleasure

>Next weapon master utilizes your weapon and powers cohesively only to be outdid by simply spamming powers (you know that one thing that brought us WM)

> With every WM rotation there is a level of risk with every attack, since all of them you have to execute a WM Crit. timely and that also increases the opportunity to not execute your rotations as planed. since its a bit slower.

I could go on but this is just a few of the reasons i think WM needs to be improved passed AM's and leave AM's as an alternative to players who are newer with lesser SP... i know they'll be players that suggest its balanced but i ask them when was the last time they've seen a Quantum, Gadgets, Nature, HL, ice users using WM... and are my points not valid? TY all

A superpower should hit harder than a weapon, imo. I wasn't a fan of wm when it was released and not a lot has changed. I do think that all ams should somehow include every power in the powerset. I hate dumbification and that's exactly what wm and most ams are doing right now.

I'm having a hard time understanding why there are so many weapon combos and superpowers in the game but only an extremely small percentage are worth a damn. What are the devs really doing to the combat? They would have to try pretty hard to dumb the combat down any further than it already is. But then again, maybe they aren't "trying" to dumb it down.

How would that work for a power like Celestial? Celestial already takes more skill than WM or most AMs, and is not dumbed down to a set loadout. I just disagree. WM was a filler to bridge the gap between powers while AMs were being created, now its just there until all the AMs are brought up to be comparable. That said, its not going away, and I don't mind it being EQUAL to AM, but no it should not be superior.

I will say that I believe more AMs should be brought into the "Advanced" combat mechanics world, rather than just a single rotation that is REQUIRED to AM to work.

I am a master of my weapons and support this all the way. I give this thread a 2.

Jump clipping took the most skill... then they ruined it with weapon mastery which takes less skill.. now it's ""advanced mechanics"" which take literally no skill.. rotation: 1-2-3-4-5-6 they're making the game too noob friendly and more boring imo.

Maybe for some powersets, it's like that. If you liked jump cancelling for the timing and clipping aspects, I suggest going celestial.

I agree, all powers should be included am, not just some. Pretty much I'm having a hard time figuring out the ams, have to guest on the powers or try looking it up on youtube! We don't have an option of playing it our way any more!

LOL no just stop Celestial is not any harder then WM, it is a bit more difficult then most of the AM's but most of the AM's are brain dead easy....my 114 Celestial toon laughs at your statement

Celestial and jumpcancelling?

Yes, I think someone who likes jump cancelling due to the skill and timing of putting out damage, would like Celestial. I'm not saying Celestial has jump cancelling involved.

I am all for buffing WM. I dont use a weapon as a DPS, but as a healer yes buff WM, unless they make a way for me to not have to use my weapon as a celestial healer then buffing WM would be pointless.

WM was a band aid until the AM came out i wouldn't care if it went away entirely. I play this game for super powers not for weapon attack power rinse and repeat

I think it is fine where it is now. Some powers have better WM than their AM (Such as fire), and then others powers have better AM than WM (Such as quantum).

If you really want to use a strong-hitting WM loadout, I suggest you swap to a power that has a solid WM, such as sorcery.

I didn't like wm but I had to use it to make my celestial toon viable in damage which I had to fine tune and ended up sticking with other powers that had ams besides quantum . Then celes am came out and while many say it dumbed down the power is is doing wht it did when released at a slower pace with more damage. I will say this though my finger cramp up something serious with this am and clipping combos. Some dps excel at wm and am mix loadout mainly sorc and earth. Ice as well with a troller. If earth and sorc pet ams get a boost like potand sp taking effect on pet and a power back mechanic that power both the player and pet with its power usage then wm would be obsolete on those toons outside of solo and duo content but still viable in supports roles like healing and trolling

Gotta say, if you find WM to have any difficulty you are mistaken. While I agree, I can perform Celestial with ease and never miss a beat, it is definitely comparable to WM difficulty. What makes it more difficult is the factor of being interrupted. While you can be interrupted with WM as well, it is only during the WM portion of the attack, where Celestial can be interrupted from the moment your first combo starts, throughout the entire rotation.

Also to note, for PVP, WM vs Celestial shows the very obvious difference in abilities. Celestial is next to unusable in PvP now, where is WM is still everywhere.

Lol then you have never used WM while setting up DOT's and clipping buffs....the degree of difficulty is harder with different powersets...try out an electric hybrid WM load out and tell me celestial AM is harder to perform...

So ignorant...

Each power tree should have one power that setups the AM. The other powers than interact to create a loadout that matches the player style. Damage out should be somewhat balanced based on proximity of the player and enemy (closer = more damage - think P. Dart vs. EMP for Gadgets)

As for WM, it should be removed all together or nerfed. It should not become a major part of our loadouts; it should be used on occasion but not as a crutch, and that is why I'm all for WM being nerfed or removed.

Sounds like rage AM/WM hybrid. Mixing WM with bursts, dots, JC, buffs, etc. Still not so hard, granted I haven't played Electric so maybe its a little worse? That said, not sure if you have to deal with JC as well as bursts, dots, and buffs. All of them come down to muscle memory and generally become simple, even Celestial.

My comparison is based on how vulnerable you are while you are performing, not in the mechanic difficulty involved in the actual action. By comparison, WM is much less vulnerable than an AM like Celestial, as you are only Vulnerable for short bursts VS 100% vulnerability while performing Celestial combos. By this I mean that from the first Celestial combo you perform, your vulnerability for interrupt NEVER ends until A. you are interrupted, B. you mess up yourself, or C. the fight ends.

Regardless, no need to attempt an insult as we are merely stating a difference of opinion. Our argument has become apples vs oranges as we aren't even comparing the same thing anymore. You are arguing how hard it is to move your hands in specific ways to perform a specific setup, I am arguing about vulnerability while performing said actions.

I will make an electric toon sometime to attempt what you are saying to get a better perspective. If you have any tips for loadout/rotation that I could use in order to attempt this harder WM hybrid setup you are speaking of, send me a PM or something and I will see how much different the difficulties are. That said, if you have played rage's hybrid setup, and it is somewhat comparable, just let me know please.

WM was announced to be balanced to AM to give each powerset two rough options for damage. Weapon based and Power based. Right now pure WM is underperforming compared to some of the more recent AMs. That's not balanced so I say buff WM and while you're at it, bring at least some combos up in line with DW.
I don't like spamming WM, it's boring for me. Spamming 1234 AMs is boring for me too though. I like having options so I'm all for WM and AM being viable approaches for all powersets.

but my idea simply says buff Weapons ... you can continue to play the same firstly and secondly ... using weapon master allows you to use a wider range of powers to dps w/ and it still allow you to use your powers ... one does not use wm w/o powers