HL PoT and Defense Debuff

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by dr strangeonline, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    This thread is meant to bring to light(sorry for the play on words but I couldn't help myself) some deficiencies in the HL powerset on the trolling side of the role. If you disagree please save that for something else. This is merely to gauge interest from the community who would like to see these proposed change's made. If you have an idea of your own that would help improve the issue's presented, please post it or send me a message.

    First off I'd like to point out that HL trolling in its current state is a great power but has some flaws that become more evident during end game content. These flaws keep other trollers or would be potential trollers from using the power. Hardlight from its conception was meant to be used as a mid to melee range troller power. The changes I propose wouldn't change that conception but would give HL trollers more options when things get too hairy in certain maps.

    Below is the PoT powers for current controller powers. It will state what range they can be casted from, how many targets they will hit(CC) and if they apply a Power Interaction. I will also list a few opinions and example's of the above mentioned issue's with HL PoT's.

    1. PoT

    *Quantum- Grav Field cast from far range, single target applies graviton charge.
    Tachyon Burst cast from far range, can stun two enemies, applies destabalization.

    *Mental- Telekinesis cast from far range, single target, applies dazing.
    Terror Tendrils cast from far range, multi add frontal cone AoE, applies terror PI

    *Gadgets- Tazer Pull cast from far range, single target, applies electric PI.
    Sticky Bomb cast from far range, can juggle group damages 3 in proximity and stuns.

    *HL- Claws single target lunge(can be cast from far range but will move you towards enemy), applies panic PI.
    Boxing Gloves single target lunge(can be cast from far range but will move you towards enemy). No PI.

    I like that HL differs from the other troller powers. It truly feels like a power in its own. All other PoT's can be cast from range without moving you into a dangerous position. Each power has a single target and a multi target PoT move for Crowd Control(which could be argued are the best CC powers for trollers) except for HL. HL differs that both PoTs serve the same function. This is likely to keep combo's and playstyle's meshing but could be improved.

    I propose that impact trade places with boxing gloves in the support tree. Making impact the PoT for the support side of the tree. This will keep with HL's conception( As a melee based controller, impact deals more damage at melee range). It will give HL a PoT that can be cast from far range without lunging you at an opponent but incentive to stay in the melee to mid range. It also will give HL a multi add CC. Impact is a frontal cone AoE juggle that can stun enemies.

    Example's of bad time's to lunge at the boss

    *Any time a one shot or skull icon is coming from an enemy. This can be difficult due to needing to keep PoT active and then of course lunging towards the boss. A HL user can clip PoT with recharge and avoid some of the lunge but this works with varying degree's of success.

    *In Nexus when the shields pop up around the HL troller. This has happened to me several times. The shield will pop up and I'll have to wait to activate PoT so that I don't lunge away from my teammates. I can work with my teammates but if the other troller is down and out then they can't cast it to keep power coming in from the team. That is if they aren't a HL user as well.

    *FOS 3 when the medics have their shields up. Power damage won't effect the large damage from hitting the shield but it's not good to lunge it.

    These are just a few example's and their are many time's when a controller hurling themselves at an enemy can be a bad decision. Most of the time even with the change I would still run with claws. I enjoy melee trolling and the claws would net me more damage and set me up for my favorite PoT combo(claws/ram/whip/whip/impact). But would sub it out for the more dangerous area's.

    Gloves and impact share the same number of combo possibilities. Gloves is also the weaker of the two current PoT's in my opinion. Mainly due to PI and combo possibilities. I think that making impact the PoT in the support tree would would make HL more viable for other controllers who want a traditional or basic playstyle. While still letting others use HL in the way the developers envisioned. It also wouldn't change most controller or DPS power point allocation. They would most likely be headed that way for grasping hand/light blast and gloves and impact share the same damage modifier.

    2. Defense Debuffs.

    *Quantum- Time Bomb can be applied at range. Has the potential to damage multiple adds may explode before hitting opponent
    Singularity can be applied at range. AoE root, juggle, stun.

    *Mental- Phantom Flames can be applied at range, splash AoE. Stun and burning PI
    Thought Bubble can be applied at range, encases two targets, inflicts crushing PI

    *Gadgets- Gauss Grenade possibly currently bugged, but normally will stun and electrify two adds, can damage 8 splits at 3 and will electrify 2 targets.
    Stasis Field can be applied at range, encases two targets, inflicts crushing PI

    *HL- Whip Thrash mid range but will lunge you into melee range, can be interrupted. deals 4 ticks damage
    Entrap Applies Debuff at mid/melee range, can encase mulitple nearby targets.

    This debuff differs from the other power sets as well. Likely keeping with the conception of HL. Its irksome though due to WhipThrash moving a player into dangerous position and being interruptable. While Entrap not being clippable(can be jump cancelled) and needing to be applied at mid-melee range to land its debuff(damage will apply from far range just not debuff). This could be a bug but has been this way since game update 17 leading me to believe that its working as intended.

    Entrap is the safer of the two options and can be a very fun power if you run with teammates who have encasement breakers. It can however waste power when your just slightly out of position. During a mission where you stand more towards far range to avoid taking heavy damage a HL user would have to move out of position and get in close to land their debuff. This can be irksome every 10 seconds. Along with keeping up PoT. The trollers two main jobs during a boss encounter.

    This also can be troublesome during objective oriented boss encounters such as nexus when you have the shield and are trying to keep a defense debuff up but need to move away for the team's safety. Not being able to apply a debuff from range makes the power less viable and this is one reason their are less HL trollers and many of the game community feel it is more limited than the other power sets.

    Entrap should apply its debuff from range on the targeted enemy. The damage lands and the encasement. Too keep it from being OP it should land its debuff and damage but only encase multiple nearby adds when in mid-melee range. This would keep it in line with other powers and improve trolling for HL users.

    HL is a fast fun playstyle. Its different from all the other controller power sets and even with the above mentioned proposed changes it would stay that way. It would simply be more accessible for other players looking for a more traditional playstyle in comparison to the other troller powers. It would also improve survivability for current HL users and give players who want to experience HL as controllers less to be concerned with.

    Please be respectful and stay on topic with this thread. It is meant to gauge interest for HL troller users who wish to see these changes. Once it receives enough likes I will present them to Larry Liberty and see if their is any possibility in seeing changes.

    Thank you.
    • Like x 54
  2. Ekart Committed Player

    My alt was HL Controller for more than a year, liked playing him also. Was fun to play HL, but compared to my main, which is quantum in Dox & Nexus it was also stressful, because of the mid/close range of the defense debuff. Claws are clippable with recharge so i didn't had any problems with it.

    Before GU31 hit the servers Entrap was mid/far range like debuffs in other Powers. HL needs some minor changes in the Controller stance. Bigger range for Entrap like it was before GU31 would be a good start.

    Since December my alt is Mental which is also fun and less stressful. ;)
    • Like x 1
  3. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    I agree I like its current incarnation but it could be improved and increasing the range on entrap is one step that would help HL controllers. Please give a thumbs up if you agree and I appreciate your info on the GU 31 change.
  4. Mary Bliss Committed Player

    Is it true you have to hit on a close combat combo to put up the pot ?

    Like I will throw up pot right before a cutscene with no npcs around so people heal off screen.

    If true I'd have to say lantern controlling is the weakest controller there is sorry. You at a huge disadvantage having to be in the killzone, with a longer casting time (and having to hit something?).

    As much as I really love the animations, they still make me laugh, I'd prefer any tree that gives me the option to cast from range - especially when I am on new or harder content.
  5. Dr Torched Well-Known Player

    Heres the solution to all your problems. Ready?

    CLIP Your Light Claw / Boxing With Recharge ( Power dump ).

    Really, it's not hard at all. Only thing i can agree with is HL's Defense Debuff, the range is awful after what, GU32?
    • Like x 2
  6. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    No you don't have to land a hit to keep PoT up. You just have to cast it. You can clip it by casting recharge which will stop your lunge but also keeps you from comboing. PoT will tick every 5 seconds and as long as you cast it while you see blue numbers it won't reset delaying a tick. Keeping it up consistently will result in the double tick.

    There has been an issue with cut scene's ending PoT for quite some time now. That affects all controller powers.

    Please like if you'd like to see a change for HL pot or defense debuff.
    • Like x 1
  7. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    I'm well aware of your very astute answer. This is merely a suggestion to swap a power in the tree to give HL players an additional type of CC and range option at the PoT power. I brought up your answer and am not saying that anything isn't usable. It would be nice however to have a pot that doesn't cause me to lunge away from the group, if I cast PoT when the white shield is up on me in Nexus. Even if I minimize movement by dumping power. I would still run with claws 75-90% of the time since it would net me more damage than casting impact from far range. It would simply improve my options with CC and give more versatility to an already very fun and good power.

    The defense debuff is likely bugged since this change came at GU 31. It should be fixed.

    Please like if you agree. If not please be constructive and respectful with your comments.
    • Like x 6
  8. expeel New Player

    True enough. And he stated that he in fact does clip with recharge therefore its not personally an issue of his. But others powers don't have to do so, and may be problematic for a up and coming hl troll that's not great at clipping. So they clip slower and end up in harms way. I'm sure the problems he speaks of are why there are not a lot of hl trolls. And just go dps. I have a hl troll as an alt. But often when my main healer runs into a hl troll in a raid he doesn't even want the pot role. Granted they may be inexperienced at hl trolling still goes to show there is more of a learning curve for hl trolling even if vit is higher
    • Like x 2
  9. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    Thank you for your post please like if you agree with the thread. If not thank you for taking the time to read it and consider.
  10. EvilSnake Well-Known Player

    i'd love to see entrap apply a debuff at range again. i can't see it working as intended the way it is atm if so they never should have given us the entrap option and left us suffering with whips in t5 raids. also a pot that doesn't have to be clipped would be super for those times power gets so lean all you can give is a pot. well thought out man.
    • Like x 1
  11. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    Thank you. I would very much like to see it be impact that way it keeps with the conception of risk vs reward that is hardlight. Impact doing more damage from mid to melee range would be very beneficial for a HL that uses that as their PoT.

    Not sure if you've given a thumbs up but if you haven't please do. If we get enough likes I'll forward the info to Larry Liberty and see if we can get some changes in the future.
  12. Jurgen Blitz Dedicated Player

    There is another option to bypass the close quarters PoT. It saves you the need to clip recharge... but it requires you to look away from the fight.

    Turn your camera to the side or 180 degrees, so you won´t be looking at the bosses, and then use your PoT. You will just move in a direction where there´s nothing, and land on an empty space. I use this a lot with my HL alt when I can´t spam Recharge too happily.

    About the defense debuff.... yes, that´s nasty. Only option is to look for a brief window where you know you won´t be 1-shot, jump in and then retreat.
  13. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    Thank you but I am aware of that method too. I don't like it since it feels like a wasted cast. If I'm having to target empty space then something should be changed. Not being able to land any damage or control objective seems wrong to me. I appreciate your comment. If you'd like to see the proposed change please give the page a thumbs up. If not thank you for reading and your post.
  14. Furious Wind Well-Known Player

    I agree with u.
    Pot can be at least clipped with recharge, so isn't that risky, but when u're in Dox against Tyrant and sbs and that damn def deb doesn't work beacuse u're in a bad position, damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, waste of time, waste of mana, and u risk once again life to reapply....
    I want it RANGE.
  15. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    Thank you for your post. The defense debuff is incredibly annoying in more area's than claws will get in the way. I'd still like to see gloves and impact switched just to provide a alternative but I'll still be using my claws until I get to the boss fights at the minimum.
  16. Furious Wind Well-Known Player

    Yh also this. Impact is really cool (love to see the train make noise :) ) , but as dps is quite useless, as troll totally. Could be a good idea to give it the chance to pot.
  17. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

    I like that it could be applied at far range and would be a multi add CC. Similar to other powers that have multi add options. While still giving HL users incentive to use in melee range since it deals more damage in melee range. Again thank your for your post:).
  18. Furious Wind Well-Known Player

    This would be an easy nd good implement. Devs won't ever do it.
  19. dr strangeonline Loyal Player

  20. DarkFenix Active Player

    honestly I don't mind entrap too much the range is something to get used too I guess and train would be a nice pot move definitely , im more concerned about about triage and shield being completely useless in either role , dps or troll maybe im mistaken but I cant really find a use for them at all
    • Like x 1