Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by DCAutymn, Aug 22, 2019.
Not surprised at all
This is "balance"
While I get what your saying a few stuns and counters isn't going to put you that far down on the score card.
Not if the weapons don’t hit like fluffed pillows, no. I had high hopes for this update, but now I’m very worried they’re going to be dashed.
They are dashed, range aoe hits harder then melee right now, these weapons need to parse higher then might for a reason example..
"Most" weapons don't have the luxury that all powers have which is AOE range and AOE melee range this is important, 2h arrow storm has that field of view from range and 1h flurry has a cone not necessarily a 360 but you get the point, these weapons will hit the adds like might would vs others that dont.
Might as 1 button and a cooldown to restart the power cast and has AOE 360 or cone far/close
Prec Needs to redo that combo to apply the damage again and deal with *HIT VIEW* of limitations of hiting far/close etc
Solution: all 360 aoe melee combos need to hit less then the combos that has limited hit view, all the limited view combos and long performing ones need to hit way harder to equal might
Parses are not going to measure the gaps between pulls/interruptions lack of lunging closer, by making these weapons hit low, you'll be hitting lower on these 0 parse gaps that people keep ignoring.
Which might exels on sparring targets when prec doesnt, this is why Bow smoke bomb mastery was as great as it was mostly cus of the aoe 360 relm that might plays in
You guys just had to give into it. You just had to nerf the new improved melee Weapon Mastery combos because some people felt it was too useful a tool to have. I thought you were making progress just a little bit by making these combos with so much damage. It felt like the perfect representation of the "high risk, high reward" aspect of Weapon Mastery you guys wanted to implement. Trying to stay at that kind of range is risky, but the damage benefits of taking that risk is what makes it all great. Might doesn't even have the same concept yet because a lot of the good might close-range options for Might have been either nerfed (ex. Jackhammer) or don't exist.
Maybe the idea people had in mind when deciding that this should be nerfed was that in non-raid content the Prec-DPS with these WMs would be too powerful compared to Might-DPS players, and to that I say "who the hell cares?" The difference between killing mobs in alerts and duos between Might Loadouts and these WMs would've been a mere 2-5 seconds. And when it comes to bosses who wouldn't want to have an asset like that on their team. Might may never have the damage potential that would prec would have, but people are still going to choose between Might and Prec based on what playstyle they like. I thought that was the whole point of Stats Revamp to give people choices.
The only thing these WMs would've been unfair in is PvP, but PvP is a whole steaming pile of mess as is between both Prec and Might, so if the idea was to nerf WMs so no one would abuse them is kind of absurd. Hell I think these WMs would be useful to new players who try to go in to Arena against experienced players who have way more SP and better gear to abuse the insane might loadouts with crazy power regeneration.
Btw you guys missed a spot on this update. There's still one melee combo, that's non WM that does pretty decent damage similar to the WMs that were nerfed, at mid-range at a 150°-180° angle. Combined with Earth's pet this loadout's going to hit 40k-48k/s without any buffs and max gear and max prec-points.
which means melee should be hitting harder, period. it's harder to use. literally no one disagrees with this. candycoating the "safe" damage option leads to the FOTM followership mentality, and this isn't much of a weapons pass if it simply results in the same functional breakdown at the end. literally, it's just "slightly nerfing DW->Flurry so Might DPS feel better".
hey, uhm, why are melee combos still terrible?
inquiring minds yo.
I agree. The weapons should "parse higher" than might. Because parsing doesn't show the whole picture. Trying to play as a pure precision WE is going to have its struggles with all the "extra stuff" it has to deal with to even keep up with might. Mixing in as a hybrid still couldn't parse the average parse of a simple quantum LO. Testing with Grim, Solar, and Tetra artifacts Time Bomb, Distortion, Heat Vision, and AW. Parsed out average of 50k with highs on the 60k's per 10/sec. Superpowered focus. 415sp. All Crits, Might/Power, the rest in iconics, movement inates. Weapon up to mastery, no cross WM combos. The remaining I health.
As pure precision, running cog, vwd, and grim, WE focus, all weapons/combos unlocked (to test all weapons) Crits and Precision, the rest in might and power. I could parse similar numbers.
Hybrid parsed lowest for me. Most likely failure to find the right combo of weapons and might powers. Hybrid focus, Crits, brawling with WM, movement innates, split precision and might, going heavier on might a little. Couldn't find anything with a mix of might and precision moves that could keep in the 50k range, consistency was an issue. I used Staff, Dual Weildb DP, MA, Bow all with WM parsing for 4 or 5 hours. (Bored).
Taking these builds into content shed a lot more light on everything. Might is easy, Pretty Fluid and safer at times. WE was fun, but I couldn't keep up, staff WM was solid, but got countered alot and interrupted a lot. The damage just isnt there if I go easy. If Im hard at it and chasing the boards, it takes a lot of focus and is very engaging with the weapons overhaul there is some variety in playstyle. Its no cheese. Gotta work to keep up. The good players will shine, if weapons hit just a little harder on the longer combos, and risk/reward factor played in more. If its easier to just go might (like my preference) it is what it is. But if the reason is because precision cant keep up and might is the cheese...than its a loss. If precision has a handful combos that are quick that produce great numbers, then precision is cheese. Prec should hit harder than might, but on long combos with a risk/reward factored in. Hybrid need the cog to work better for hybrids. Hybrid is lagging behind Prec and Might.
Agreed with everything, and this is what I was hoping for the weapon update
I shall brace for disappointment Why does this always happen?
Cause people view parses as broken or op
Without understanding that powers are AOE range/AOE melee and cone based vs Non AOE/cone base weapons and their cooldowns of repeating combos
There's alot of gap between a nature/electric might power versus 1h stunning swipe but not 2h arrow storm for example, I got to lunge then depending on interruptions or add pull lunge get up repeat combo and the position view I can hit them in, during that time nature/electric might already did like 5 rotations..
Nature/electric and 2h arrow storm are in the same play style... So it isn't hard to balance that specific weapon
Weapon combos or majority of them are not outrage, so because they are not I'll be posting a list of weapons that work in raids which should of been the first step
Afraid it's too late guys. People hit on sparring dummies thinking they're going to pull that off in content. The weapon update is a complete fail.
Melee combos got messed up when they decided to kill the range and cones on them in revamp. Because of that melee weapon combos will always have a weak point of not being able to hit everything inside of large groups which I think was a bad step. Also people need to understand WM combos are slow and not mobile so of course your going to loose out on dps when things move that’s just how those combos are and what you need to consider if you choose to use them. The game wasn’t intended for that kind of play it’s more catered to a hybrid or might playstyle but sadly hybrid prob will never make a come back because of weapon mastery and trying to balance everything which will never happen.
I feel like they're going about it the wrong way,they're trying to balance weapon mastery and normal weapon combos together, when (in my opinion) it would be a better idea to let the actual masteries do the work. If weapons expert is intended to be used with WM combos, then why not make that give a huge buff to WM combos, and if hybrid was intended to be played with normal weapon combos, then make it so it gives a buff to normal weapon combos.
I don't know, I feel like this is all being made more complicated than it has to be but I'm not a dev so...if this is how they intend it then we have to roll with it.
I for sure agree on the mastery’s having a larger role in the balance of things.
My honest opinion would be to get rid of weapon mastery, give melee combos a better aoe/cone like they used to have. Cut weapon tap damage back down to small numbers and have a larger portion of the damage come from the final hit like it used to be. But I know WM is here to stay unfortunately but we can still work on the aoe sizes of some weapons.
For example some combos have a 5 meter aoe range and some have a 7. Why not just make melee aoes 7 meters so one isn’t better just cause of the aoe size. That also goes for might melee Powers. Some are 5 and some are 7. If we’re going to set standards they should be the same for all so things are as equal as possible.
During revamp I knew trying to balance 3 different playstyles would never happen and just make to much useless work.
What I think they should do is get all regular weapon combos to a good place first then work on the WM versions. That way the base of the combo would already be where it should be then they could adjust the WM part accordingly either though the combo itself or the actual mastery or both if needed.
The new prec dps doesn't even compare to current might dps on live. Gadgets prec (the best prec power) with 3 rank 200 artifacts and a good build can hit 30k max. Most of the time it hits 25k in a 10 second parser. Some weapon mastery don't even hit as hard as the normal weapon combo leading up to them. I think the easiest way to fix this is make the actual weapon mastery combo hit hard depending on how long it takes to execute. Atm you can get 17k parsers with some of these s/t weapon mastery combos and 25k parsers on 3 targets.... I can hit more on live with 3 80 artifacts as might. I hope testing keeps going on even after it hits live because it really is hard to do a weapon pass with limited time. Anyways I sent a bunch of parsers with the gear spec n weapon combos listed to DCAutymn.
Would've been nice if something approximating a final build with regards to the state of weapons was on test before a double nth metal weekend. Since that isn't the case, people who are on the fence about whether to go prec or might have no means by which to make an educated decision about which artifacts they should level. Choosing one way or the other, based on the recent weapons hotfix, can immediately be undermined by a subsequent hotfix.
If a prec player decides—quite rightly—that might is more practical than weapons as they are now, and they absorb their prec artifacts into might artifacts during this bonus weekend, what assurances are there that you won't increase the viability of precision on Monday? Conversely, if a might player—for some strange reason–likes the current state of precision, and decides to absorb their might artifacts into precision artifacts this weekend, what assurances are there that you won't completely destroy whatever is left of precision's viability on Monday?
Seems odd to leave a portion of your player base in this precarious position during a rare double nth metal weekend.
This can't have been the plan, right?
the split between the precision and (in comparison to) the might/power stat is brutal.
the increasing numbers you gain for the more SP you spend into either one of them,
i guess this is the reason why you need to choose between either and cant get both.
however: using weapons will lead to an additional loss of SP for the weapon combos.
also: as you will need power anyways and the stats might and power have been fused,
going for might and power will allways be giving you twice the amount of stats you need.
but when might and power is clearly the better option and splitting isn´t going to work well,
of course: going super powered is the only reasonable option if you want the most out of it.
it will make you never actually going emty, even if you try hard, your power pool will replenish.
it will boost might, same as hybrid does, but using weapons will only result in slowing you down,
if you do not use weapons at all and PFTT, even with the hybrid build, you will still get higher DPS.
even though i am repeating myself over and over and even if i will never get any response at all for it:
PLAYSTYLE STATS NEED TO GET ADJUSTED, they were botched short before revamp went live and:
this is the reason why the VWD was OP: devs tryed to make weapon damage stronger by the artifact instead.
however: the buff for the weapon buff, buffed only the weapons for half the time the weapon buff is staying active.
hence is why the shortest combos were allmost guaranteed to become waaay to powerfull. and here we are, nerfing...
guess noone would mind hybrid getting 10% prec added to the 10% might bonus
(additional might was never needed for hybrid and super powered, however:
those who PFTT are going to defend it and it would piss them off to loose it.
at first, power replenishing wasn´t fast enough with the super powered stat,
so it got a bonus for additional power, to make it work without trolls or colas.
THAT was what testers asked for, NOT making it stronger with 10% on might.)
even though WE is getting 10% weapon damage overall (10precision+10%DPS),
it just isn´t enough... if devs don´t nerf away the might to hybrid and super powered,
IMAO at least they need to give 10% prec to hybrid and make WM´s stronger for WE-
this is what i am saying since devs botched it and i am still absolutely certain it still holds.
Isn’t the update about balancing weapons to make them more useful than they were before as a whole? That’s already one step in the right direction So congrats to the devs so far for what they’ve done. Everything isn’t might vs prec who’s going to win the scoreboard
If you don’t like doing weapon combos or scared of losing damage because you were interrupted or your combo isn’t quick enough maybe playing weapons was never for you. This is what comes with playing with weapons and it’s a choice of style to play not mandatory. Some of you may still be stuck on cloud 9 to attached to that venom dispenser artifact giving you a 54% boost while you just spammed quick hard hitting smoke bombs and flurry shots.
Time to adjust
Separate names with a comma.