Test Discussion GU95: Tutorial

OK, you like it, I don't - but it definitely needs an archive for people that clickthrough and then come back a week later to the game and have forgotten what they were told?

As I said I my long post earlier, when I first started out, I managed to get confused between being told how to block break and which of my combos did that... during the course of the Tutorial. There should be a recap function, so you can recall earlier messages.

And, I would respectfully submit that I am not an idiot. Sometimes you just miss things, or think you have it, but then don't.

you're asking for something that requires a lot more work because it would require an entirely additional menu etc. I'm not opposed to adding the feature, but I'm also a realist and I'm working with what's been presented and what could more easily be implemented with what's been given

p.s. I'll make sure I keep using the fonts you enjoy lol

I don't think so - since Avair made it clear that it has a backend (data driven), and is event triggered - all that needs to be done is to make a node somewhere where you can recreate that trigger at will. It would be exactly as difficult as putting a new vendor (backend database, triggered when you access it) in the game - which happens every DLC, with considerably more constraints.

It's not technically difficult - in fact it's been a feature of DCUO since the year dot :O

You don't think that's a little inconvenient though, you'd have to go to that particular node, instead of just being able to open a menu, plus if you're a brand new player how do you even know where the node is? You'd have to create a UM for that too or create a journal mission to direct the player there and you think its a good idea to send a new player to this node every time they forget how to lunge?

Sorry - I should have been clearer. An activation node can be anything - a consumable, a vendor, a UI list, etc. My comparing it to a vendor for the sake of explaining why it is now possible (when you argued that it would be difficult) was only a comparison to demonstrate that that technology already exists in the game.

Long story short, jargon, and my example made my point unclear?

Sure, if it's something that can be easily implemented, that's fine. My feedback was more specific to the tutorial experience anyway

Very true .

I think that the UMS has the capacity to address some of my issues with the Tutorial, but it isn't doing that yet.

Sadly, no matter how many educational messages one gets, doing - in an environment where you *have* to do something - (à la old tutorial) is going to work better than letting new players go off piste. I think the whole point of a Tutorial is that it should be "on rails". There's a "Skip Tutorial" button on character creation, but it only lets you do that once you've run the Tutorial once. Fine, if it's obligatory just once, then it's a missed opportunity if you don't teach as much in there as possible. For instance: -

You and your mentor solve a couple of simple puzzles to escape the room you begin in. Not just blowing up some crates, but moving maybe a bomb to a destination, then activating a cog to arm it, and finally breaking through the revealed door with your attacks. Then be told to complete that mission in your Journal. It's a missed opportunity to fail to put so many simple day-to-day interactions into a Tutorial, IMO, and telling absolutely does not replace doing.

Generally, I think Proxystar's feedback is spot on. I have a couple of thoughts to add. I hope you don't mind me using your post as a jumping off point, Proxy. You've just made a lot of good points, so it's hard to resist!

I agree that this is a good place to learn the lunge and block break attacks, but I think it's too early to introduce counters. The player just used the tap attacks to break the items in front of the door. When the door opens, I suggest having another UM window pop up to tell them they can also hold the mouse button for slower, more damaging attacks (lunge and block break).

While I was disappointed a few years ago when the counters were taken out of the tutorial, I think I understand that it could be a disincentive for new players, maybe especially players that have done other MMOs with combat systems that don't have counters. I really like Proxystar's suggested approach of introducing them one at a time. I would just move this particular suggestion a little later in the tutorial (see below).

Agree with all of this, and I think the Overseer fight is the perfect place to introduce breakouts. I did the same thing (hitting shift to break out without thinking about it), and it wasn't until I got the feat that it occurred to me that a new player wouldn't know how to do that.

It's good that there are several robots to fight in the hallway after the Overseer fight (around 3:35 in the video), so that will allow the player to use their powers a few times right after that tip comes up. The next room (4:25) is where it would be great to begin introducing the tutorial for the counter mechanics in sequence. Here's where I'd suggest adding the robots doing the channel attacks, and the player should be told to lunge the robots. I'd save the block breaking until a little later, and have this room be all about lunging channel attacks.

The room that starts around 5:55 would be a good place to introduce the concept of healing barrels and soder. Side note, I love this room because the Arachnids keep coming out of the tube in the ceiling. It's just fun!

Some of the robots in room where you get the block UM tip (around 6:25) should lunge at the player. As it is, the robots use mainly tap melee or ranged attacks, so the new player doesn't get to see how effective blocking is against different attacks.

To me, these fights feel more epic than the ones in the tutorial on Live because there are way more adversaries and you're working with the iconics to take down the Brainiac ship.

When you hit Level 3 (8:27), it would be worth repeating the UM tip about using abilities to point out that another power has been added to the loadout. The "You have learned" message at the top of the screen disappears quickly.

I agree with all of this!

I suggest adding a UM tip before the Brainiac fight to tell players how to lock on a target.

QOL Improvement: I'm glad that all of the styles are automatically locked at the beginning. That can be confusing when your carefully crafted look randomly changes when you put on new armor items.

I ran through the tutorial again with the universal messaging, as well as some leveling content. Here are my thoughts:

I also agree with Proxy's post; there are a few areas of opportunity for improvement; however, the tutorial makes a bit more sense now.

However, the universal messages are TOO BIG. Why do they have to take up the entire screen? The messages make me think that the devs evaluate us as little more than grade school children (ok, sometimes we act that way); these messages look and feel like something that should be from a early learning program on a child's tablet. I do not care to be in the middle of doing something only to have my UI totally encompassed in a pop up message, forcing me to stop and dismiss it.

Please consider making it smaller and appear at the top of the UI using a unique, windowed environment; for example, the pop up for the Batman Starter Pack could be in a Bat Signal shaped/colored window. These messages perform like the ones you see on certain websites when you visit them using an ad-blocker; they grey out your view and ask for you to turn off your ad blocker. What if I am in the broker and the pop up blocks my view? I could make a mistake on the broker and end up buying something I dont want or posting something for a price I did not mean to, especially if I am using a broker bot.

These full screen messages are perfect for players who stand around and spam all day; if they are going to take up chat space then they should at least be bombarded with pop ads.

I also saw Proxy's video. The Universal Messaging System (UMS) is a good addition but most of the feedback from my last post in this thread still stands.

The advertising pop ups for me only ever turned up after loading screens so that wouldn't happen at the broker, but was that not your experience?

If that wasn't the case then I agree, they should limit the advertising pop ups to just after loading screens excluding instances. i.e you only get them when loading into wt/hod or open worlds.

Throughout my leveling I would get the pop ups at any moment, besides the event/dlc ones when I did something to trigger it. Like accepting a journal mission, getting a feat, reaching a new level. I could have just killed a npc or complete a journal mission and I would get the pop up in the middle of combat or an instance. I could see how a player could even be killed during the pop up as I don't know how quickly a PS player can dismiss the message.

Well, like Chill's experience, I got the pop ups when I "triggered" something. That got me thinking how precarious this can be if you level up or get a feat during a mission in the middle of combat or if you decided to use a vendor. I only made to level 15 and then deleted the character because I got tired of seeing all those pops up for almost everything I did.

Members should not see ANY pop ups after the tutorial. It should work like a Hulu subscription in which members that pay the top tier (in this case the monthly/yearly membership) do not see any commercials; in this case NO pop ups.

You dismiss it by pressing circle, it dismisses it instantly.

That being said, these pop ups shouldnt be occuring within instances then and probably shouldn't be occurring im combat period even if it is quick to dismiss.

That of course implies members also don't want to buy things.

That aside though i agree i think members need to be targeted different from say premium players.

Members don't often need to be reminded of dlcs or replays etc. But it might be useful to target members with sales notifications and event notifications or special items on the marketplace.

The trouble is they're targeting all players with a very sweeping generic messaging system that would be better off being more targeted and perhaps being a little less intrusive.

Perhaps the popups for example could be coded so they never occur more than once in a 24 hour period and never in combat.

Agreed. If the messages weren't like the song: "Every breath you take," I would not have minded the pop ups so much and would have kept on leveling up the test character to see how the pop ups work after level 30.

One thing i do appreciate about this tutorial is incorporating more iconics to be alongside you in the tutorial. I had actually been theory-crafting a tutorial to be a four player instance rather than just a dark, desolate solo cave system.

Reason why is because MMOs are multiplayer for a reason. Player interaction is a key aspect of the genre as a whole, and not having that in the starting moments of the game only serves to negatively impact a player's fun, which was promised to be in socializing.

This video example of how Jagex and Runescape struggled with this concept themselves. It's a good watch:

Hello everyone, after watching the live stream and skimming through a few paragraphs of the content on test. I am downloading the client now and from what I can gather this is already starting to look like a "Boy is this going to be big" type scenario. LOL. Can't wait! Thank you all and have a great day!

This is coming from a coaching/managment perspective. People do not pay attention as well as you think. Unless you are standing right in front of them and then that does not work all of the time. You have to make them run a few laps or clean up toilets a few times to get their attention.

Just tossing out directions in the tutorial within pop ups is not going to work as well as you think.
People need reps.


As far as the tutorial mission goes.
All of the dodge, block, roll, block break mechanics need to be kept within the robot room and to further add onto that.

The Final fight needs to have each player go through all of the mechanics a number of times within the final fight.
(10 times each would be a good round number)
while at the same time..................
The Mentor needs to go down and be resurrected by said player about 4 or 5 times.

Until these things are accomplished the final fight needs to continue.

The only way people learn things well enough is by repetition. Just tossing out directions is not going to work. We all know and understand ( hopefully) that most people just toss directions to the side or just ignore them.

You need to make a reference that all players can go to and look at the tutorial pop ups at will. Make the pop ups have a reference like /help or /emotes in chat. People will use this because they like to ignore things at first.

If those pop-ups show up during combat thats a reasonable cause to quit the game since its totally changing ones game experience, just saying.