Test Discussion GU95: Tutorial

Positives
1 the first power you get seems to be a P I finisher and the second sets up P I...nice...you finally have a "Full" loadout regardless of lvl...if you want it
2 The plot makes sense now...expanding the mission lets oracle and others finally tell you where you are who kidnapped you etc
3 I always thought...(every once in a while threads about improving the tutorial pop up...and Ive popped off) YOUR mentor should be the one that saves you..Batman picks up YOUR utility belts warning beacon...Batman finds out Brainiac is attacking...Using stealth and gadgets he saves you...and together you get off the ship..duo style. Wonder Woman feels a disturbance in the spheres...whatever...using skill and brawn and brains she saves you...with magic able to do things beyond even super science you beat Brainiac together..etc..Finally you at least get to see your mentor fighting and winning beside you
Negatives
1 this teaches you little to nothing about how to play
2 instead of a mask I always thought the first piece of gear/style of gear should be a weapon...you rip apart a Brainiac pod with your power...why not pick up a "broken pipe" for your first weapon style...anyways
3 you cannot seem to lose...you learn nothing about the consequences of bad play...the difference between blocking non attacks and letting them simply tickle you while you hit away is nil and never teaches you that standing next to bosses or even PvP opponents with no defense is suicidal in actual gameplay Refer to No. 1 on the list for more explanation
4 the first PvP experience you should have should be on the ship...win or lose your first fight shouldnt matter...explain PvP...thats what would matter

Just a suggestion. Leave this new tutorial as is. Once you are out (roles at the appropriate time), Oracle tells you to check your missions tab for training and orientation. You're provided with a set of beginner missions, that you can choose from. All port you to a holographic simulator that Oracle controls. All of these modules are separate and can be developed/released over time. That will make any rework needed easier. It's also a system that can be added to as needed (last bullet).

• How to fight: This is similar to what used to be in the tutorial about blocking, block-breaking, etc and any other weapon-related moves, including indicators. Oracle can keep rolling how the NPCs and maybe even the user can increase/decrease the difficulty with each roll-out.
• Power usage: The basics on power usage and how the bar indicators works. Perhaps also allow for difficulty options.
• Healing, Tanking, Controlling. Simple basics in a demonstration, that also explains what your roles do, how they interact with other roles and some play suggestions.
• Others as needed: Anything that arises from user feedback.

actually you could seamlessly fold role tutorial into the overall tutorial...just have different icons rescue you....Batman saves you...but those indestructible super robots could take his head off...good thing you are a fire tank huh...Wonder Woman could break those robots...it might take everything she has...if only she could HEAL though...Superman breaks indestructible things all day...but shattering through Brainiacs defenses took all he had..if...if...if only he had more POWER!!! You get the idea...

The tutorial changes as they stand per now on the test server should be scrapped entirely. They make the tutorial boring and unhelpful. they make your characters feel like an little kid being led to kindergarten. they should remove the mentors except the end fight. only having oracle on the ship till the end was much much better. just add brainiac to the end fight of the current live server version of the tutorial other than that change nothing because all the changes to the tutorial currently on the test server has made the tutorial way worse and completly useless as a tutorial. you learn nothing and it makes you feel like your character is an complete baby. Also why is this suddenly called GU95 instead of GU94.

I concur with this. Though I would add that you should learn to use your movement mode.

I wasn't able to test the various leveling content updates, but the thrust seems to be to make things easier, and removing counters gets mentioned a few times in the various test threads. The problem is too easy makes thing boring. Counters are a huge part of what makes this game fun.

A problem here is that when you only have 1 ability to spam over and over again, play from the tray is really not fun. )It's not all that fun even when you have all your abilities unless you're doing combos and clipping, but that's another discussion.)

Yeah, this was mostly an attempt to get them considering buffing hybrid playstyle so that the synergy is there more than before.

some styles do not fit the palettes of the new skins.For example translucent network.

New Hero Tutorial:

New Villain Tutorial:

I agree with a lot of what others are saying. I found videos of both the hero and villain tutorials to use as references. Let’s start with the positives. The first one is Brainiac as the final boss. It’s much better than fighting some random robot. The windows to the outside world are a nice touch and there is a lot more visual variety in the environment. Fighting all those robots in the room with the large window looks enjoyable.

Now here are the negatives. First off, having Superman or Lex Luthor help the player through Brainiac's ship feels too much like hand-holding. Instead, just have the player’s chosen mentor show up at the end for the fight with Brainiac. In fact, don’t have any other NPCs help at all. But do show some of them fighting outside the ship when the player reaches the room with the large window. Secondly, there is no section that teaches players how to use their movement power. I suggest adding a destructible object on top of a large structure in a room that the player gets trapped in. Flying, climbing, or running to the top of the structure to destroy the object would allow them to progress. Thirdly, taking out countering mechanics from the tutorial is a bad idea. Teach them to new players while they’re fighting Brainiac by having Oracle or Calculator advise them.

I would also like to add some suggestions and improvements. Have the game automatically unlock weapon combos as players level up instead of allocating skill points, just like how it is with powers. Additionally, make it clear to the player that smashing the orange barrels will heal damage. I also like the idea someone had about having players queue for tutorial instances that cover what the first tutorial didn’t, like combat roles.

I really miss Adam Baldwin's voice as Superman. Calculator sounds a little different, but much closer to the original. Is it the same voice actor for Calculator, just with eight or nine years of vocal chord deterioration?

Adam was SO much more superman than this new one

I think that this "tutorial" would have to change its name. A tutorial mission that doesn't tutor you, it's just a mission.
The devs have to have in mind that people playing this game for the first time are clueless, so the game MUST teach them the mechanics. Does anybody here remember his/her first time playing DC Universe Online? If it weren't for the instructions, I wouldn't know what to do for attacks, movements or defending.

you know they give you that legends practice area...they could easily make something for role teaching...other things...good idea

My thoughts from only having seen the video of the tutorial..

It's nice having brainiac at the end but he's the main baddie, we shouldn't be defeating him so easily and so soon, or else the entire reason for the game is lost.
We should fight brainiac, but at the end, have him blast everyone and flee. Then superman can say something like how we are the first to hurt brainiac and make him run, giving the player a feeling of being needed in this world of superheroes

even in previous updates they tried to make you feel cool for getting off the ship..plus you are needed in other missions too...saving someones soul might be considered a big deal...raven can fight her father thanks to YOUR help...( honestly this is never fully described...why your punching demons to shadows is holier than most other punchings...but she insists...so who am i to B) ...plot and character interaction wise they try to include the player often...

Having Supes for the entire thing is redundant. Why would he need the player there at all? Unless there's some explanation as to why he's at 1/4 power due to Braniacs interference or something. It should be (as said) the iconic can warp in after the player takes down a shield or something.

Also as mentioned, a tutorial that doesn't teach anything is not a step forward. It is in fact a gigantic leap in the opposite direction. Why on earth would the actual tutor elements be removed?

Why is there a new not-tutorial in the first place? Are we suddenly seeing an influx of brand new noobs? After 8 years isn't there significantly more important aspects that need re-working? And if there is a sudden influx, why would we want them being taught less than they were before?

Change the final boss fight, absolutely. although...supes and newly born hero/villain being able to take out braniac is..odd.

Absolutely agree with the majority opinion of posts that this is an awful tutorial, that actually teaches nothing.

On top of that, it suffers from a truly fatal flaw - whilst not being taught how to use your weapon, powers, or combat mechanics, you are required to fight through literally 100+ adds, sub-bosses, and a boss for... well, just the hell of it I suppose?

There's no loot. Zero. And precious few opportunities to get Feats.

No reward for overcoming these obstacles, and no indication that you're going to get any rewards in this game whatsoever for just endlessly fighting crowds of adds with weapons, and powers, you have no idea how to use. Whilst walking everywhere.

The adds are also tougher than the current tutorial, which is a mistake IMO - it's going to be a really tedious effort to take down all 48 of the adds in the army room if all you know is melee taps.

Additionally, there's no real variety, and very little emotional atmosphere - just a number of different fights, and nothing else to do.

Thinking back to my first ever game of DCUO, the things that grabbed me were: -

- Movement: I was told how to activate flying - which immediately made it cooler, because I felt like a superhero.

- Tension: I was on my own - the sense of menace was real, and there was some trepidation when I went into the tunnels because they were confined spaces that I was expecting to get ambushed in. Particularly the "leap of faith" into the vertical tunnel. I was worried about what might be at the bottom.

- Abilities: I was told how to use my weapon and powers, and because this was back when I had to *choose* a power, I *read what they did* before spending my Power point, so I had an idea of how to use it, and whether it looked like it might be a cool move. I was also reminded to spend my SP, so the same applied to my Weapon combos. This helped add to the feeling that I was growing more powerful too, and gave me an increased sense of confidence and anticipation - spoiling for the next fight.

- Exploring the Environment: Is that glowing box in the corridor dangerous (no, but it does give loot)? What happens if I attack one of those red barrels (OK, I got stunned)? What if I throw them (That worked well)? What about the orange ones (now I'm getting healed)? Am I safe if I simply fly up in the air (no, the enemies will grab me out of the air)? A feat just flashed up - what are they for, and are there more I can get (more SP, and yes there are)? What is that cog for (opening a door)? Will I die if I drop down this shaft (no)? I learnt a lot just by having the opportunity to interact with my environment more than is encouraged in the Test version.

- Rewards: I got a thrill claiming my first piece of loot from my first sub-boss. I got a thrill from getting another Feat, and ecstatic for *earning* a SP. I was even pleased to get Soders and trash drops from adds - it was Stuff. Rewards. Things I could use or sell, because I knew having money would be important later.

- Progression and Satisfaction: I was taught how to do new things in combat (lunge, block-break, and block). At the time it did seem confusing, because I would forget which of my combos did what - but I got the hang of it finally in the boss fight, when I realised that these moves did *big* damage. Which felt good. My stats improved as I went on, with each new bit of gear I acquired, which also felt good. I got more confident with my weapon combos, which again felt good, and I got a reasonable handle on navigating in my Movement mode, which felt great.

Basically, all the experiences I had in that first run through the old Tutorial had me hooked. The version on Test has managed to cut that all out, and make the entire experience bland and unrewarding.

If this is the first impression new players get of the game, it comes across very, very poorly indeed - uninteresting, repetitive, and long combat for no reward .

If it had been *my* introduction to DCUO, I wouldn't be playing it now.

I have just run through the new tutorial again with the new messaging system thing. It is still way worse overall than the current tutorial run. i will try to split my explanation of why i think this into mechanics and story. I'm not always very good at properly wording my opinion on stuff. But i can say this even with the universal messaging system the new tutorial is an huge downgrade on the old one. I am not being negative about the new tutorial just to be negative it is just another case of an mmo change that when first announced sounds like an good idea or good change, but when it has come to the testing phase has become implemented in an horrible way. For my detailed description of my issues please see below.

Story
The way it plays out now with superman meeting you in the room you wake up in and then leading you through the entire ship and getting help from other npc supers makes your own character feel way less cool and superheroesq (or villainesq) it makes your character feel like an little kid being led to the first day of kindergarten. in the old version you fought your way almost alone with only assistance being through oracles audio stuff and superman at last "boss". this felt much better and much more epic and heroic stuff that you managed to fend for yourself and escape the ship almost completely unaided until the last boss where you meet up with superman (if hero) and then he helps you with the last boss and the legions of robots being teleported in in that last room. this after you going through the ship being thought stuff, without an physical guide present in the form of superman and the others. The new tutorial makes your character feel like an weakling and it is an really unepic tutorial compared to the current one. so once again i have been disappointed by an thing in an mmo that i was exited by when first announced but then greatly disappointed by when it became implemented in game testing. also the three loot crates in the ship has been removed which gave you some armor at the start and also gave you some style collecting at the start.

Mechanics.
The universal message system at least on the tutorial ship doesn't help the fact that the way you are supposed to learn the different combat stuff is all wrong, for example you learn about the shift usage in the big room with all those robots to fight and really big and confusing fight. and having such and important thing be thought to you just before it is too short an time for it to register properly. the way blockbreak and the other things in the original one where you had to defeat those robots one on one by learning and countering their special attack attack pattern was way better way to do it under more controlled forms for that. also the same goes for the big robot in the old tutorial as an way to learn you how to use the shift key in combat situations in game. The way the game tries to teach you how stuff works on the ship right now is way too confusing because it tries it in the middle of or just before combat situations with loads of enemies that are very chaotic and hard to get an overview in. Also in the old tutorial you have way more freedom in relation to the speed with which you can complete the entire thing if you have already done it and know everything that the tutorial wants to teach you. one of the places this removal of freedom to complete the tutorial fast is most evident is how you have to talk to superman to be allowed to destroy the crates that block the door, unlike before when you could just straight away attack the single robot in the room and the door would open. This in addition to the other issues makes the tutorial super boring when you have to replay the new version of it for alts and so on. it has become in total less epic, less fun, more boring, more on rails and it feels more like an kindergartner being led to kindergarten by an parent, than an new hero or villain taking their first independent steps into this new world of superpowers.

Can someone record the test tutorial with the new messaging system for those of us that don't play on a PC?

Sorry but i dislike the new tutorial so much after running it around 7 times that i don't want to do it again. but i hope someone else can help you with that i thought some previous posters in this thread had filmed the new version with the new universal messaging system.

I ran through the tutorial with the new messaging system in place - video immediately below of my experience




Again much like before, I like the general overall feel of this new tutorial and I like the appearance and look of the new universal messaging tabs, they have a smooth overall feel and don't appear to intrusive on the screen and naturally divert a persons attention to the box to ensure they read the instruction.

I think the new tutorial is great in the sense that it applies a nicer overall experience to a new player with interactions throughout with more of the iconic DC characters, the ship overall also seems to have a more pleasant glow and the windows and enhanced cutscenes are a nicer experience overall. I still really like that room where you have all the NPC's and the big window and the other iconics help you fight all the NPC's with Superman

I think the general feel of this new tutorial will be a much more appealing experience to the new player, but there are of course some suggested changes I would make based on my experience that I think are important, outlined below.


At the start of the tutorial Superman's voice line "Fancy meeting you here, I'm Superman..." is repeated twice - this needs to be fixed.

My suggested changes will primarily be highlighted in pink and bold, but my justification will be outlined.

The first Universal Messaging ('UM') window comes up and tells you how to do combat moves, the problem here that I see is that at this natural point you want to also explain to a player how to do a "lunge attack" by holding Melee, even I naturally started doing it albeit there's a degree of bias because I already know how to do it and it comes naturally when you're more experienced, but it's also for this reason I think it needs to be incorporated in this very first room.

With that being said of course lunging has the intended purpose of causing an interruption and needs it's own explanation as well so my suggested change would be as follows.

At about 2:20 of my video when the very first door opens, you have the NPC's rushing towards the door. I would propose having them stop half way towards the door and have them start doing a channel attack in your direction. A UM window could then come up and prompt the player to "lunge" to both attack and "counter the NPC".

The Brainiac Overseer at about 3:00 of my video I think should return to what it did previously where it stuns the player a UM window should then appear telling a player to tap R1 etc to break out of a stun. The reason I say this is because at the end of the tutorial I naturally broke out of a stun because I was taught how to block but I would have no idea about the intent of "breaking out" or the point of it as no UM had been presented surrounding what it was and its purpose, although tapping the button might inadvertently also show a player the "block feature" at this early stage it doesn't matter.

The Ability UM after the overseer is fine and well placed.

The Block UM before the large room at about 6:25 is fine and well placed.

After this room I think is when a player needs to naturally be introduced to "Block Breaking" as they've just been taught how to "Block" - there is a natural spot to do this.

As you leave this room and round the corner at about 8:36 you enter the cut scene where you see Brainiac's invasion force, while that cut scene is going and the player distracted I think you have Superman move ahead in to the next room where he is then fighting NPC's that are blocking him. As the player approaches the room at 8:55 you have a UM pop up that tells a player how to block break and why. The player then proceeds to block break the adds and kill them and then move past this room.

The penultimate fight at 10:18 would then be a useful opportunity to combine it all by having an NPC block, an NPC lunge and an NPC do a channel attack just to allow the player to practice a bit with what they've learned, most will just bash through it, but at least the opportunity would be there.

In the final boss fight I think a UM could pop up just before the room where it tells the player to look for objective targets indicated by things like a "Lightning Bolt" This would then indicate to the new player that they should focus and attack the power core in the center of the room and will also help them remember to pay attention to targets like this in other content.

Other than that I actually really liked the final boss fight, except for the fact of course I broke out with no UM previous which I've explained above.

Overall apart from my suggested changes I think it would then be a very good overall experience for the new player that teaches them the very basics, more can of course then be taught as they progress through the leveling, of which I'm also testing a little and will provide additional feedback for when I can.