GU73: The Stats Revamp

I'm not saying your concern isn't legit, my personal opinion is I could care less, but that doesn't stop me from being able to see the topic from a different point of view. I agree with you for the most part, if content stays this difficult, remove CR relevancy.

Oh I see. Thanks for making it clearer. I do think that blind pugging could be an issue but the content has been scaled appropriately no? They should be able to figure out properly everyone can learn on their own IMO. Of course don't make it irritating like FoS 2 from years ago or other raids.

I think that they should gradually increase the difficulty between T1-T4 so that new players don't just quit at T2-T3 if it's too hard.

I disagree with your fifth paragraph a little though. I do think that maxed out level players should have a high advantage but another thing that drives new players away is the high levels destroying content. I mean they can barely do anything in the raid. Do you think optional stat clamping may be a solution?

I want to say something on the topic of how combat feels cause i see thats a hot topic. Just because you are over geared for something doesn't mean your going to steam role it like on live server and thats just something players are going to have to get used to. If you were here from back before Cr scaling was a thing you know how content felt back then and to those who weren't here you will just have to adjust to it.

Don't expect to walk into things a tier or 2 lower and plow though it cause thats not gonna happen anymore, even things like walking into paradox and soloing it isn't going to be happening and thats a good thing.

Moral of the story just cause your over geared for something doesn't mean its going to be easily beaten.

This ^

People are just spoiled with how easily content can be beaten over geared.

I agree, remove CR relevancy. I think the development team will also have to adjust their attitude towards feats in general as well. The casual side of the player base have always approached feats with a "I'll get it later" and the developers have embraced or encouraged this approach to some degree as well.

Which raises the question "how hard do we make feats going forward" and I think "yes we do keep hard feats" but given they're now going to have to basically be completed at tier in almost all circumstances should we be considering the weight of some of those as well, i.e. which ones are 10, 25, 50 etc?

I know this is a slightly more "minor issue" in terms of the whole revamp, and there is importance in also ensuring power balance etc etc etc. but let's get all parts of it right before putting it live right?

Roleless buffs are very much needed.

That scaling curve it seems to me perfect, for a better integrity of the game in the long run, sure people might get upset, I get it too, we have been spoiled to much for to long, and the content is a joke, as I see it this is a great way to fix a lot of broken stuff, and to have a better pace for the game, people with low skill point might want to get those feats before revamp.

With the SP matter again people will revisit that content too, and work a little for those SP, instead of being complaining that they are bored running only the end content over and over, it is a perfect opportunity, to make that content relevant again at least till some extent, and also to let new playeres to hope into the action of the raids or alerts, instead of being left out because some high CR did finish the raid by itself.

I more or less agree. I don't think it's only about ego though because I understand why some older players think they should have a massive advantage in the game since they did earn their stats. Otherwise I agree, I can't even enjoy older content anymore and I've been around since late 2012, I feel bad for players who have never had the chance to experience things.

absolutely optional stat clamping has always been the solution. I mean everyone that knows me knows I'm against anything that appears like stat clamping, not because I necessarily will personally have a problem with it. I've never had trouble obtaining feats and the like at tier when I set my mind to it; it just goes against my view of what makes this a great game; and that's obviously a personal opinion.

This however, feels very mandatory doesn't it; again everyone's entitled to their opinion and I'm sure some people will love this change, hell even I'd enjoy the odd challenge from an old raid in a league run

I mean if we talk the stat curve for example anyway at what point do you think you should out level content

Exactly. If it's difficult for you at release, it's going to about the same difficulty a year later...and another year later...and another year later. There's no need to rush on progression. No need to R&D. No need to feat hunt. No need to replay. Just play the game if you can. Once a week for the free reset if you're able; but hey, it won't really matter if you can't come back till next year. Everybody that came every, single day will still be in the same boat as you; you won't have missed a thing.

I mean, it's a great business strategy for a Super Nintendo cartridge game; it worked then and works just as good now!

I think what we have to remember here is that we're only talking about "raid content" being impossible to solo here, everything else in the game actually appears to be by and large ok.

To be honest I think feats have been generally getting easier, obviously with the exception of no-dying feats, (which I hope everyone has those from past elite raids btw, no more face rolling throne elite, BDE, or PBE! ). Most feats can be completed in a timely manner and/or more objective based since the return of large group content. I don't think we'll ever be seeing the "complete 500 of these" feats again.

Guess the point is, it could already be in their plans going forward for all we know, obviously it's too late to go back and adjust previous feats but going forward its definitely a good concern to raise.

And you're absolutely entitled to your opinion thanks for sharing it.

If we keep this on topic in terms of raids, at what point would you like to see a significant strength increase i.e. "out-leveling" or feeling like you've out-leveled something within a raid environment? is your answer, never?

Exactly this. If they make it like this then the content becomes very static and unchanging. What's the point of leveling then? There has to be a point where things become easier and easier, not to hit a wall where things will continue to be the same difficulty no matter how far you go.

Replays will be irrelevant, leveling will be irrelevant. It's going to be like the old coin op arcade games. The same experience no matter how many coins you put into the machine.

It's not necessarily that it remains static, it's just the rate of progression in conjunction with content difficulty has been greatly slowed down. Probably by 250 cr FOS will become a cake walk again, who knows? I'm not in disagreement with it, I come from the days where soloing a raid was a big deal, but I am in agreement with the removal of CR relevancy if this is system stays in place. if were gonna start fresh, might as well start fresh everywhere.

Proxy isn't posting this for himself. We have 40 active league members. Most of the league has 250 ~ 330 SP. We don't have much trouble with instances because our team work is on point. The problem is when you look at the pug community, they are nothing like the league community. They can't get all the feats at level because they don't have the same co-ordination that a league run will have. This also goes beyond that, look at the feats. Some of them have clearly been designed to last well into future DLCs / tiers and to have people come back and revisit the content when they are stronger. This will also make the grindy feats much more unbearable, because not only will you need hundreds of xyz, it will now take much longer to get each individual xyz to count.

It's it's such a small curve that three tiers makes little to no difference for the pug community, then there is no difference. 3 tiers is a lot of time! We are just past the 5 year mark and have reached the 8th tier. So the curve went from "/" to a "|".

Maybe, after all the raids are intended for a group of 8, nobody should be able to stomp those by itself, once you know the mechanics of the raid, the raids becomes easier anyway.

It is good opportunity to improve the way people act in the game, lets say for example a high cr goes into paradox with some others alike and some low cr but also new players, and you are struggling with it, if you already know the mechanics, it might be wise to advise the rest of the players at lest the ones open to listen, so you can beat it, new players will get a glimpse of how that raid was, and maybe they will learnt something in the process.

If people get engage with the game and with the content they may stick to it, if they jump in and do nothing it might not be so fun.
Sure there are all kind of players, but is more engaging a fight than do nothing at at all and still getting loot.

I do agree they should get rid of relevancy now, and allow people get a reward for getting into that hassle, that is fair

There is still a curve though, people's damage isn't being clamped, their stats aren't being reduced, they just won't be as effective as they are now, which is what spoiled everyone into thinking they need to be able to faceroll something 3 tiers below them.

Also not to discredit proxy's video, but FOS could still be very much well soloable with laodout adjustments and effort put into it, I'm actually tempted to jump on test and try it out before I hit the shack. The thing that's being bought up as a concern is how easily it can be done, which doesn't coincide to live server, in other words aren't what people are used to.

Do you think this will have a detrimental effect on the abandonment rates of content when it comes to blind queued raid content?

That's always been a critical question, would you rather get content done and maybe have a higher cr player do a lot of the work for you, or not get the content done at all because people get all upset, disorganised and then just start leaving.

I mean were you around when DWF was fresh, did you see what all the PUGS were doing during those runs and were leaving after 1 or 2 wipes and there was a 200 page thread asking for a nerf, what happens when that potentially becomes every raid?

I do understand the desire to restore a challenge and have people learn, but what we're talking about here is essentially going to be an overnight change come game update 73 and we're going to be throwing about 2-3 years of a "very different casual player base" that has been created right in the deep end with no tutorials and just asking them to "immediately get with the programme".

I don't know about you, but that just has me very very worried, because I see a lot of people just leaving over that. I mean I could be wrong, but I'm genuinely worried and I honestly do actually care about the PUG community base and this game in general.