GU73: The Stats Revamp

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Avair, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. Derio 15000 Post Club


    The simple fact is all of my gameplay on test is without a single TC mod. TC mods should not in no way shape or form give you to edge to do be able to do the bare minimum. The bare minimum should be achieved without TC mods.

    And if the revamp goes live and TC make it to where not having TC mods makes it where you are unable to play the game effectively, then the revamp will be worse than gu3, 36, 47 combined.
    • Like x 8
  2. Saint Nutella Loyal Player

    I strongly agree with both of you here.

    1. Light is definitely right. Honestly (yes I know it's my opinion) but it just doesn't make sense for me to be able to do prime pretty easily and then fall to a wave of adds in FoS 3. Listen everyone knows that I just love rerunning content and I'm against endgame players ROFLstomping but this is just extreme. IMO the sense of progression just goes away when you work so hard for your stats and then you can't even get through a raid you did years ago. To me adds having high health is not something I have a problem with but when the trash starts decimating my health then I have an issue. What makes this more unique is that a T4 raid is easier than a T3 one by far. I don't even understand how lvl 55 will get through it but I'll find friends to test it at CR level.

    2. I agree with Proxy on this. It does feel sort of clunky for me when I play as quantum (using time bomb) but I'm ok when I play with electricity DPS. I haven't tried controller role but the healing also feels sort of clunky as well and I prefer it on live.

    ^ That explains how I feel about healing perfectly.
    I don't even really like healing but it feels far more enjoyable and fluid on live for me.
    • Like x 7
  3. pitbullb3 Devoted Player

    2 facts thst can't be denied; power is still an issue on test server and It's mods that give power back.
    • Like x 2
  4. Saint Nutella Loyal Player

    Agreed. That was among one of my concerns months ago.
    • Like x 7
  5. mexmex Dedicated Player

  6. Earth Sisters Well-Known Player


    Hmm, makes me think... what WOULD convince me to run some of the older, unpopular raids like FOS2...

    ...maybe something like they have now when new content drops: play the missions in storyline order, get some loot... but instead make it weekly, and make the loot valuable to everyone, like a Stabilizer. Do it for the 3 Batman T2 raids and the 3 Superman T3 raids (maybe have some smaller weekly reward for Khandaq). But those missions would still need be "soloable" (FOS2 still needs at least 2 for fork) for skilled, high cr players. It's bad enough getting everyone to one side during the fork in FOS2 so I can solo the other... if you tell me I CANNOT EVEN solo one side by myself anymore, and I need to teach a healer how to heal everytime I run FOS2... no... screw that. Not worth even 10 Stabilizers.
    • Like x 3
  7. Derio 15000 Post Club

    Devs for raid content. All tanks need more mitigation.
    • Like x 8
  8. mexmex Dedicated Player

    Ok I can do a very long response to this. but lets keep it simple, and I think pretty much sums what I think, the reasons why I say I like the revamp.
    1.- Feedback, other than I like or dislike, and why as an overall is the only one I can give, (we did have a private conversation and you know exactly what I think about testing) I dont record vids. or get into technical issues, or do the maths for this or than, or going into the pyhisics of the game, I leave all that to you guys that have the time or willingness to do so. In all this thread I haven´t said anything about those topics.
    2.- imbalances, yes I am pretty sure there will be some or a lot, but dont think it will be worse than what we have on live, so in my eyes is an improvement. But uniqueness is more important for me than numbers, so if a power is underperforming but I have fun with it I will go with it. Take eletricity live, my leaguemates tried to keep me out of it because it was in the bottom damage, but I took it anyway because I like it.
    3.- soloing content, if you review the thread, there are people claiming they shoud be able to solo the raids 2 or 3 tiers below. and this is the critical point for me to engage in this discussion, simply because I dont agree with it. So if the devs decided to flatten the curve of progression or slow it down, I do agree with that decision. I think it solves more issues for the sake and integrity of the game. If T3 or T2 are out of whak, they need to fix it, I said that numerous times in the thread. but not till the point that high crs would be able to solo it.

    Yes I agree there might be more work to do, that might not be perfect or balanced at 100%. But the game live is so imbalanced, so out of whack, boring 1234 boom, etc etc. What I tested in the first rounds felt bad, then it got better, like way more than what we have live hence I love this change, and is a valid opinion. I am against so many things as numerous times I have explain on this forums, but this revamp, it is a good thing a very good thing (some of the few good ones they have done lately) at least for me and some others I know, simply because the removal of AM or CR differential, and just for that I like it so much, and I hope and expect them to improve it more, sure, but it has been a year already in development, 7 months rounds of testing ( I think), how much will they need to wait to release it, if after all, there will never be a general consensus about it.
  9. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    Mepps:
    Where is your data and where are your specific examples based on your personal testing?
    • Like x 7
  10. stärnbock Devoted Player

    PROBLEM:
    when trying a raid through teleporter, you can not CC anything, yet everything does CC on you!
    tryed a subconstruct solo and duo run... guess what happens? you get encased by every trashbot.
    not complaining, but: if i can't roflstomp my way though, could we at least be able to CC targets?
    i mean, i am cr201, sunstone assasins are like cr80. but because it is a raid, i can not even knock back?
    yet somehow they can pull me through the entire instance and do whatever they want on my character ^^'

    cr201 sp280
    power: mental
    stats: super powered
    20 crit chance
    40 crit dammage
    1 precission
    1 health
    1 dominance
    175 might/power
    weapon: brawling (with MA and 2hand WM combos)
    full special forced might/precission exept head and shoulders
    full special forced generator mods power, vitalization, might
    trinkets: special force dampening field, supply, trinket, sidekick
    loadout: mass levitation (no CC, doesn't levitate or stuns), menace, telekinetic shield, telekinetic bolt, granduer, neo venom boost

    FOS2 power core teleporter solo:
    way to the first boss (super girl) was doable, boss was stunning me a lot, but it was actually pretty easy to beat her.
    i wiped several times on the way to the second boss (the passage below is flooded with adds that pull you into the mob),
    second boss, i allmost got on the 3rd try, but most tryed got him only to half life... not even trying the bridge alone...
    well, in tryies with partner, it was a lot smoother, but we never got through the protection part to open the door...
    i think it was ok, not possible to solo, but i guess i would rather have it left very hard than easy roflstomp godmode like...
    also: i don't want the stats revamp to get delayed... also: it will stay a challange to solo it for some time further, wich is good!
    only the problem with crowd controll is indeed a very annoying thing that allways was giving some headache, even worse now ^^
  11. mexmex Dedicated Player

    same goes to you, what are we in elementay school here, as if cheer leaders matter to me, trash the revamp all you guys want, that is your prerogative
  12. Goddesssilver Well-Known Player

    This is why I said tanks need more testing to catch things like this.
    • Like x 1
  13. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    My sig agrees
    • Like x 10
  14. Jay Smeezy Dedicated Player

    So what you are saying is that no one, league or anyone carried you when you started? My league helped me....i didnt get to end game without help from a ton of folk...if the commuinty helped and taught the guys you all say have no skill, it would be an even better game. This is no means a jab at you, but when all of the "OG" been here since it was a cd folks say, im not carrying a new guy, it makes no sense to me...remember, you didnt start at 200-ish.

    Play more PS4!
  15. Aggro Well-Known Player

    You guys are so stuck on the "Community Standards" it's ridiculous. Just another word to make the game worse.

    What makes this game fun is thinking outside the box, not staying in that box. This is why people don't wanna stay and play.

    How many things are you going to limit a player from doing till you realize it makes no sense?

    Weapon Expert is broken and shouldn't be played like that? Does this mean you going to disable burst and dots within that style? Or buff the other 2?

    You guys talk alot of nonsense, nerf this, that's broken, how about buff things for once? Or actually fix the damn game.

    Make fire burst and frost blast OP enough to give a damn.

    Supers having cool downs? Really? I charge up for a reason, and on top of it I have to wait? By the time my cool down is gone i'll end up at max again. Which means I never get to use a 50% cus of a cool down.

    So eager to nerf thing's smh.
  16. Aggro Well-Known Player


    -___- people don't test numbers they just run there mouth all day.
    • Like x 1
  17. Ringz Dedicated Player



    The problem i see with your statement is, that when i joined my first league in this game, even if I was being carried, I was being taught or willing to listen/learn. All of this is back when it was late 2012 so there were barely alot of info videos or forum guides on what to do's. Now there are tremendous forum guides on things, and helpful YT vids(at least back then the youtubers were reliable and knowledgeable). So the community has been helping.

    The problem is those who aren't willing to learn or won't listen due to the current function of how the game works. New players shouldn't be carried period! They should be going through trial and error, and if they want to get better the internet exist for more than just social media browsing or they can ask as there are more then willing folks who will help a new player, ingame or forums. But you combine players not listening.learning + the game being so forgiving and the way it functions now = end game ice dps who are spamming dual pistols auto. Those jokes exist for a reason

    The whole players not wanting to teach new players, is either OGs wanting them to learn because the game is so easy if you just read things or the new players rebutting back because of whatever ego or they think because they made it this far in game they are doing something right.
    • Like x 2
  18. Proxystar #Perception

    [IMG]

    This is something I've been back on test and taken a look at and I think it's leading to a degree of the disjointedness and clunkyness I'm talking about.

    Not all the troll powers are equal; which isn't outright a bad thing but unfortunately it doesn't take into account the fact we have 6 years and 8 tiers of existing content, all of which primarily benefit from largely speaking one debuff; defense.

    We have the trolls broken down into 3 categories of supercharge generators:-

    Mental & Quantum - Supercharge Generators = Healing Debuffs
    Munitions & Light - Supercharge Generators = Damage Debuffs
    Gadgets - Supercharge Generators = Defense Debuffs

    Now obviously only one of the debuffs is the supercharge generator meaning that the second choice of each particular type of debuff is never going to be taken, so the debuff chosen as the supercharge generator is mandatory to that troll class (taking the other would be a waste of power and slot).

    What we also have is a debuff on an NPC lasting 12 seconds and a supercharge generator lasting 6 seconds, which means the player is going to be pressing that supercharge generator button every 6 seconds rather than a more efficient 12 seconds. The second press of the debuff within the 12 second window, is from a controllers perspective, wasted power; apart from the fact that it generates supercharge so arguably it's not all a waste.

    Now this is where it all becomes a bit murkier and this is where these sorts of discrepancies can lead to FOTM, power preference and power/player exclusion.

    Quantum & Mental have theirs as a 'heal debuff' now going forward in content this could be beneficial, but playing all existing content apart from very few bosses this debuff serves little to no purpose and as a result the quantum and mental trolls have to cast their other debuffs in addition to this healing one.

    With Light & Munitions it's the same, but at least the damage debuff is of some consequential benefit.

    WIth Gadgets, this is where the advantage will become distinct, they're benefiting from both a defense debuff and a supercharge generator all in one go ultimately saving them a significant amount of power cost.

    I'm not sure how you're best to go about fixing this because to be honest you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think what you were wanting to achieve is for controllers to run together benefiting from each others debuffs, unfortunately the inequality problems become more apparent in small group content and you'll find people maybe simply changing gadgets so they don't need to bother.

    I think possibly you're also intending to implement the healing debuff in more content going forward, but unfortunately this isn't going to help the issue we'll have with content going backwards.

    edit - In addition to this the fact you're spamming the supercharge generator too frequently leads to a case of over controlling, making NPC's unnecessarily immune and could lead to an annoyance from a tank's perspective because you're causing NPC's to potentially become rooted in place every 6 seconds if not becoming completely immune and causing other problems.

    Side Note from a DPS perspective:

    I've noticed all the supercharge generators all apply a specific PI, this is ok where you only have one PI within the power class, like munitions where everything is burning, however, the other powers like quantum have both graviton and destabilization but the supercharge does destabilization, this means there is a natural tendency to push people towards one PI over the other, then seriously limiting the choices a player has when choosing their loadout given the significant focus of building a supercharge.

    Perhaps the solution is having 2 supercharge generator options in all power classes to alleviate this? I realise in saying that people might carry two supercharge generators on their loadout to try and speed up their accrual of supercharge, perhaps we could just be looking for a way to limit that, other people may have some thoughts on this.
    • Like x 12
  19. Saint Nutella Loyal Player

    I see your point. I agree for most powers like quantum but I don't mind too much since I love shockwave for electricity but it would be nice if I had a supercharge generator that applies the electrified PI instead of the polarized one because it does limit my options for my ideal loadout. Of course I do like the loadout I have and I'm using two PI applicators, along with electrocute which benefits from either one and then I have two burst powers and a supercharge.

    I'm not sure if all powers have two PI (I'm assuming they do) so I would also like to see two supercharge generator for each PI but like you said people would be able to acquire their SC faster. If not, what do you think of a supercharge generator that applies both PIs?

    Adding a second supercharge generator and making it so that they charge your supercharge slower seems unfair to those would only use one supercharge generator. Unless they can make it so that the loadout can recognize the difference between having 1 SCG and 2 SCGs. That's why IMO I think that the SCG should apply both PIs for more variety.
    • Like x 3
  20. light FX Steadfast Player

    Im not sure how anyone can say what they tested, what power they used, what rotation they used, what role they were playing, or what piece of content they ran is irrelevant. That data is what testing is. And when someone can not answer those simple questions i cannot believe they have been on the test server. Mepps and the dev team have asked people to give that specific info when posting feedback. Saying that information is irrelevant is beyond silly.

    Now here is some issues ive seen on test. Already posted multiple times about the older content. An adjustment is needed. Not so people can solo old raids. But because new players will struggle in that content while progressing to end game. And when adds in t3 are hitting harder then bosses in t4 there is a problem. Plus how many t2-t3-t4 tanks are out there? Speaking of support roles....

    ....we have seen many people request more support roles in content. I agree with this. But how can we expect this community to form 1-1-1-1 alert groups on a daily basis or 2-2-2-2 groups for players in older content who are at level? We all know there is a major shortage of support role players in the game. Many players only have 1 armory and pick dps because there is open world, solo, and duo content to run which is about 50% of the content in the game. So ofc they will pick dps. To think all of a sudden all these players out there who main as dps and have never played support are suddenly going to start tanking? Or trolling? Sorry but i dont see that happening. I think its a mistake to think its going to happen.

    Because of what i just said here^ pugging is going to be very rough. Finding support roles for your groups and then finding good support players too. We all know again, there is a lack of support players, there are even less good support players. Active leagues with many members who dual role wont have issues. Pug community imo will struggle because majority of the pug community is dps only players.

    Lastly, and proxy mentioned this, players run old content to get mats, styles, base items, feats, etc. Somehow people are going to form full groups for some of this stuff they previously walked into to get gear to salvage for mats? Again finding support roles for these kinds of runs doesnt seem realistic.

    Mepps i know this is not direct feedback from test, well a little bit, but i think it raises some valid concerns. I apologize if i went off topic a bit but some of us play daily and see these issues on live every day. Im sure u guys, the dev team, knows there is a lack of support roles in the game. Id be curious to hear how u guys think this is all going to play out. Do u guys think many players are going to suddenly start playing support despite the fact they have been able to for years or however long they have played and chose not to? I think getting more people to play support and learn the game is a good thing, im just not sure this is the best way to go about it. And the carrying does need to stop, but the people being carried have to want it to stop too ;) Id love to hear the dev teams take on this. Thanks.
    • Like x 5
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