GU73: Fire

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Mepps, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. Pyrometers Active Player

    Ohhh, I knew something was wrong but didn't know what.Last time I seen the passive was nerfed from 65% to 55% and now I look on test next to the tank role slot it's 40%:confused:. Yea may you guys please bump it back up to 55%,also I too believe engulf should inflict burning and for some reason it feels like im stuck in the animation for 1 sec longer.
    • Like x 1
  2. L T Loyal Player

    Comparing Fire to Ice again, I'm distraught to find that nothing has changed.

    Could the cool down of Mass Detonation be lengthened to match Frost Blast, and the damage increased to match? There's no way, even with 3 trolls, that you're spamming a 400 cost power every 3.6 seconds anyway. Frost Blast is doing nearly twice the damage of Mass Detonation right now.

    Fireburst does about the same damage as Avalanche, but Avalanche
    • costs 300 power instead of 400
    • is max range and not mid-range
    • has a shorter cool down (3.5 seconds vs 4 seconds)
    • starts doing damage right away instead of having to wait 2.5 seconds for the burst
    Could Fireburst PLEASE get an adjustment?

    Flame Cascade is only doing 80% of the damage of Arctic Gust. FC costs less and is max range, so that might be ok.
  3. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    When interrupted, the cooldown of both Mass Detonation and Fireburst doesn't start counting down again for about a second. I'm guessing it starts counting down once you break out. Is this intended?
  4. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Can you post exact amounts and other info please? Like number of targets, etc. The two powers aren't really similar, it would be better to compare Frost Blast with Mass Detonation. And Frost Blast with Avalanche.
  5. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Are the devs taking into account that powers like Frost Blast, Mass Detonation and Fireburst involve a much higher degree of risk/reward than channeled abilities? That's because we can't use the channeled hand mod for them, so we still get interrupted pretty easily. That said, having the SP into knockback resistance, etc. is helping a lot too. But heavy enemies will interrupt you constantly anyway.
    • Like x 1
  6. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    Almost correct, but I disagree on one part.

    Fireburst should be compared to Frost-blast, they are basically identical in every way.
  7. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Close, but not when it comes to damage/power. Mass Det has a CC effect at the end, as does Frost Blast. That's why I mentioned it.
  8. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    Didn't fireburst also have CC effect at the end or did it get removed?

    Last I remember they both had the ability to stun enemies multiple times when it got finished, I'll have to check that out.
  9. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    It must have been removed. Which is fine since Mass Det has it. Also, I'm wondering if the wind-up for Fireburst is shorter than Frost Blast, because it does less damage, and with no CC effect. Maybe Frost Blast takes longer to release. I'm checking now.
  10. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    OK, so, Frost Blast definitely takes longer to release than either Mass Det or Fireburst. At 190 CR (didn't have time to change gear right now, been testing in Area 51, lol), on 3 target dummies, Frost Blast does a total of between 16k and 19k depending on crits.

    I'd say it takes about 4 seconds for release. And it has a CC at the end.

    Mass Detonation takes about 2.5 or 3 seconds to release. It does between 10k and 15k depending on crits. It has a CC effect at the end.

    Fireburst takes 3 seconds to release, and does 14 to 17k depending on crits. It has no CC effect. Maybe buff Fireburst a little bit.

    Avalanche is doing quite a bit of damage (betweek 14 to 19k depending on crits) and costs only 300 power. But the channel also lasts longer (around 5 seconds). But it also has a push back CC effect. And it's full range. So it definitely is the superior option out of all of these.
  11. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    Occasionally ive had this happen even when queuing another ability too fast after starting fireburst, and this also effects ice's moves as well
    • Like x 1
  12. L T Loyal Player

    Here's what I posted in the 1.7 thread:
    Someone pointed out that Fireburst was more similar to Frost Blast. They certainly share an animation. Fireburst is doing a total of about 136 average base damage (53 average base damage per second). So all these powers have a 2.5 second cast time. Mass Detonation has a 1.1 second cool down (I don't know why, unless you're running with 7 trolls you could never keep using it). Fireburst has a 4 second cool down and Frost Blast has a 3 second cool down.

    Avalanche is doing 155 base damage per cast, with a lower power cost and a longer range. 55.5 base damage per second.

    Something is totally not right here.

    Flame Cascade and Arctic Gust are a little more difficult to compare. They don't hit at the same rate and they have different power costs. Arctic Gust hits a little more slowly than Flame Cascade, and does more damage. The result is that the average power consumption winds up being about the same but the damage is not. Ignoring cool downs, the average base damage per second of these abilities is as follows:

    Frost Blast 74.2
    Avalanche 55.5
    Arctic Gust 47.5
    Fire Burst 53.9
    Mass Detonation 44.6
    Flame Cascade 39.8

    Mass Detonation has a short cool down, but Fireburst has the longest at 4 seconds. Avalanche is 3.5 and Frost Blast is 3.
  13. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Are you totally sure Frost Blast has a 2.5 second cast time? I was running both yesterday and it seemed like Frost Blast's cast time was way longer than both Fireburst and Mass Detonation.

    Either way, great job with your work, something definitely needs to be adjusted, especially considering that both Frost Blast and Avalanche both have CC effects too.
  14. L T Loyal Player

    I'll check again, but the first time I tested I timed them all with a stop watch.
    • Like x 1
  15. McShotzz Well-Known Player

    Well not sure if it was reverted or brought in line but back when fire received its AM fire bursts animation was shortened but iirc frost blast being similar i dont think was ever met with that change
  16. spack2k Steadfast Player

    Engulf (fire pull) needs to apply the burning pi, fire tanking depends on it .

    Spontaneous Combustion really should have 3s cooldown , whats the reason behind the 6s ?

    why we use the same shield animation for burning determination ability?

    why no use of blue flame sfx ? where is the love moja?
  17. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    If engulf applied a PI (which no other tank pull does) it would be hard to justify it being a multi-target pull and keep it at 100 cost like the rest. Maybe there's another power that could apply burning instead (because you're right, we do need at least one other option (or fire soul shouldn't require a target to be burning to work).

    On bosses this isn't a big deal because keeping them burning isn't a big problem. With groups of adds it is though, since in slows you down while you wait for a power to come off CD, and also basically makes running with the shield obligatory.
  18. L T Loyal Player

    Maybe it could apply the PI in tank stance only then. Fire is the only Tank that depends on the PI to boost its defense.
    • Like x 1
  19. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    That would be a great idea.
  20. Immortal Kyrro Loyal Player

    And there's it's justification for applying pi when no other multi pull does. No other tank relies on a pi to be a tank

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