GU73: Fire

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by Mepps, Jul 14, 2017.

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  1. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Please use this thread to discuss Fire in the Stats Revamp.
  2. KeeblerElf Well-Known Player

    Tank stance- we still feel squishy in comparison to other tanks
    increase the healing of stoke flames and burning determination
    increase the health buff to 55%
    allow for more powers to apply burning because our current loadout is pretty set in stone
    stoke flames and immolation are the only powers that apply burning from tank current loadout and immolation only works if your being attacked

    stoke flames(heal causes burning), burning det(heal), backdraft(heal and pull), engulf(long range pull), burnout(heal break out), immolation(shield)

    i would like if burning det or engulf could apply burning as it would help alot while tanking
    • Like x 6
  3. supalova20 Well-Known Player

    why not throw a burning PI on engulf? other than that fire is awesome
  4. TiGGeR.TSK Well-Known Player

    I agree with your post there is only two moves that cause burning to enemies, immolation and stokes flames. So fire tanks have a very standard loadout no diversity what so ever. Also as a fire tank you never know when fire soul is active it has no prompt of visual effect letting you know it's active or not. A suggestion would be the blue flames we once had for burning determination. And the health and healing buff need to be set back to how it was 65%; Fire tanks are way to squishy on test. They are very healer reliant
    • Like x 4
  5. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    DPS feedback:
    Spontaneous Combustion needs to be reworked. It's a 200 power cost burst ability with a 6 second cooldown and It only delivers one tick of damage. On-top of it too, The damage doesn't deliver compared to Flame Cascade which has a shorter cooldown and demands less power.

    I parsed the two in a 60 second run, and while I can understand that Spontaneous isn't mean to be a spammer the damage certainly doesn't make up for the long cooldown or increased cost compared to Flame cascade.
    FC no PI:

    Spontaneous no PI:

    FC with PI:

    Spontaneous with PI:

    Conclusion: You can see it for yourself in these logs, not only can you use Flame Cascade more often thanks to it's shorter cooldown; but Flame Cascade only costs 150 power, Spontaneous Combustion costs 200 and has a 6 second cooldown.

    TL;DR: Please Rework Spontaneous combustion, At this rate nobody will use it for PFTT or Hybrid; it's not a viable ability in any rotation you try.

    • Like x 3
  6. TiGGeR.TSK Well-Known Player

    When fire soul is active molten lava should rise up from the ground and attach it self to the player as armor representing the defense buff we get now and as your buff increases or decreases so does the armor. I think this a viable way to indicate that fire soul is active.
    • Like x 2
  7. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    Is this intended?

    Spontaneous Combustion:
    • Now debuffs the primary target, and deals AoE damage when triggered.
    Never heard of a DPS or Tank Ability doing any sort of Debuffing, so some clarification on what this actually means would be great.
    • Like x 2
  8. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    When it comes down to it, I'm still finding it difficult to do any sort of high DPS rotation with Fire PFTT that doesn't rely on any sort of Channeling Attacks. When it comes down to it, your options outside of channeling attacks are quite limited on Fire.

    And when it comes down to it regarding Fire PFTT I just can't find a sweet spot with any rotation I try outside of one that involves Flame Cascade.

    Takes advantage of burning PI:

    • Detonate(Non channeled, burst, 100 power cost, 0.5 second cooldown)
    • Flame Cascade(Channeling attack, 150 power cost, no cooldown at all)
    • Spontaneous Combustion(Non channeled, burst, 200 power cost, 6 second cooldown)
    • Wildfire(Non channeled, 300 power cost, 3 second cooldown)
    • Meteor non strike(Slight channeling required, burst, 300 power cost, 6 second cooldown)
    • Fireburst(Channeling attack, 400 power cost, 4 second cooldown)
    • Mass Detonation(Channeling attack, 400 power cost, 4 second cooldown)
    Basically what I'm driving at here is that the cooldowns are all over the place with Fire, this needs to be smoothed out both for Channeling and None-Channeling DPS rotations. Currently I can't play a PFTT rotation with Fire without the pace feeling slowed down, damage being too low, or giving me a general clunky feeling.

    Bug report:
    • Stoke Flames description is not stating that it deals additional damage DPS role.
    • Like x 4
  9. Brav Well-Known Player

    Okay, so the new update notes show this. So far on test I've noticed the 40% stats for health and healing are still active and the description also wasn't updated. As for Fires passive "fire soul" the description also still shows 20% and it is not completely functioning while in tank role. The new passive is suppose to be 25% defense while not blocking. While in tank role and not blocking there was no increase to defense. The bonus to burning enemies is working and defense is going up while hitting them but the increase doesn't seem to be reaching its possible max defense.

    I'm just pointing this out in case no one else does but it was pretty noticeable as the stats were adjusted for gear but not for the powers buff ability.

    I know this is just the first adjustment tune and more will come before this goes live. Maybe this change just didn't make this update and will be in the next. I just didn't want this to go unnoticed as this will be vital for a fire tanks survival in end content.

    Thank you developers and testers for all of your hard work. Keep up the good work.

    Sincerely: Brav.
    • Like x 1
  10. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Fire doesn't have enough CC available in actual content to be able to use either fireburst or mass detonation. And since they're technically not channeled abilities, they aren't available in the channeling mod either. Of course, if you're intending those abilities to not be used in non-raid content, then they're fine. I still don't understand the purpose of having a knockdown at the end of mass detonation.

    A knockdown? At the END of your longest channeled ability? Seriously? Perhaps you could put that knockdown somewhere else, like at the beginning of it. Maybe a minor explosion or something.
  11. Brav Well-Known Player

    Okay, so I doubled checked the passive "fire soul" and the defense is there, it just took a minute to remove while in Dps stance. What is still not right is the percentages. They are still giving 40% for health/healing and 20% for defense. Its correct based on the description currently on test but if the new update notes are correct then those changes are not yet there.
  12. Mepps Sr. Community Manager

    Sounds like an issue with the notes. We'll review.
  13. Alrighty Then Loyal Player

    Why not use the Blue Flame for Fire Soul?
    Players saying they can't tell when it's active.
    • Like x 6
  14. Brav Well-Known Player

    Okay, sounds good. Thank you.
  15. L T Loyal Player

    That's a really good idea right there. Even more useful would be to add the blue flame when Fire Soul was at or close to its maximum.
    • Like x 1
  16. Brav Well-Known Player

    I believe they wouldn't do that because "fire soul" is a passive ability meaning it is automatically active while in tank role and not blocking. At the moment it gives a 20% defense increase off the characters base defense and the defense can increase up to 50% when you hit a burning enemy multiple times and aren't blocking. (Players can maintain that increase during fights while actively tanking by hitting a burning target during counters or after knocking them down.)

    If they were to use the blue flame animation if would be a nice look for one of the new shield animations. At the moment both immolation(shield) and burning determination(heal) use the same fire animation. It will just be a nice touch but isn't necessarily needed.
  17. Brav Well-Known Player

    An animation to indicate when "fire soul" was at its max sounds okay though the defense increase starts to drop for every second you aren't actively tanking and hitting a burning target. It may help some players know when their bonus defense has dropped similar to Atomic 's aura animation. Sounds a little tricky but maybe it can be bright when at max and starts to dim as it drops. If it is possible and helps some players I say why not. Though "fire soul" is passive and currently functioning fine at the moment.
    • Like x 1
  18. Heart Well-Known Player

    I just logged in and tried to reproduce your findings but I couldn't. :(
    • Spontaneous Combustion:
      • "Blast your target and nearby enemies. Additional attacks against your target may cause it to explode, damaging nearby enemies."
    I'm getting 3 hits each Spontaneous combustion activation. 1 on cast and 2 additional hits from attacking the sparring target. I also compared the damage of Spontaneous combustion and Flaming Cascade:
    1. Rotation: Flaming Cascade -> Flaming Cascade -> Flaming Cascade ~ 3300/s against 1 sparring target
    2. Rotation: Spontaneous Combustion -> Flaming Cascade -> Flaming Cascade -> Flaming Cascade ~ 3600/s against 1 sparring target
    In my tests using Spontaneous Combustion with Flaming Cascade is always better than only using Flaming Cascade.
  19. Jacob Dragonhunter Devoted Player

    Oh I wasn't using Spontaneous with Flame cascade, I was comparing them individually; that explains why you were getting different results.
    Honestly I still think Spontaneous 6 second cooldown is overkill and needs to be reduced just in general.
  20. Korlick Loyal Player

    So...what about that dovetail on the pull?
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