GU50, Tunso Testing, and Player Testing

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Sore, Jul 16, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. toast Well-Known Player

    ive read through most of the posts and have a few questions. why is wm being used in the tests? wouldnt weapon damage skew the results, padding the numbers? i mean if your testing which ever power, shouldnt you be using just that power?

    by saying that mid range doesnt exist, is incorrect. its actually something that they created without even realizing it, and its been there since the beginning because of sorcery's CoP. it forced us to stay within a few steps of its outer ring, thus creating this non-existent mid-range. also them giving some powers a max hitting distance of 12.5m they are acknowledging without openly admitting that there is a mid-range.

    if you're just testing the 2 extreme distances without testing the middle, those tests are inconclusive and could give you the numbers you want but not necessarily the numbers you need.
    • Like x 2
  2. SGS_JonLegend Well-Known Player

    This I can do.

    I have separate logs for each of these parsers that I can provide, and I also have another toon ready on Test that I can use to see how the parsers will vary with the additional proficiencies (etc.) available. I'll be testing on that toon tomorrow, and will get those and todays parsers to you so that we can get those numbers together.

    I would have done some Testing with my Live Toon, but he is equipped with full Elite gear, and all 7.3 Precision Base mods. So I'm not sure how that would factor in, but I can still provide those numbers as well if you think that'd help the overall presentation.

    In the case of using HL's point blank Melee AM, I will omit that if that is what you were suggesting. I can use HL's AM again with the Melee Range under the Live Test outline, as my results today were showing that it was still producing some more DPS then at far range.

    But, I will be sure to get this information out tomorrow just as soon as the opportunity arises.
  3. SGS_JonLegend Well-Known Player

    According to Tunso, Melee extends out to 12.5 Meters, or Half of Far (max) range of 25m.

    In his post, he also recommended that we don't use WM, but his logic was that you were wasting DPS time on it.

    It does depend on the power, but in most cases there isn't any reason for WM. I've done numerous tests with Hl comparing the use of WM and the absence of it in 10-15 second burst cycles, each cycle being a fresh rotation. While WM does typically out perform a strictly AM burst, the difference is minimal -- anywhere from 200-300 DPS.
  4. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    I suck at Haymaker combo. I can't execute it successfully enough times to get those numbers, but when I did connect, it was an improvement. Haymaker
  5. Black Jaq Devoted Player

    • Like x 3
  6. Remander Steadfast Player

    I know. :)
    You can use some mid to close range AoE combos, but the gains are minimal, even against sparring targets. I've suggested that Celestial either get a range bonus or have the closer range combos buffed to provide that risk vs reward.
  7. Sore Steadfast Player

    The purpose of not doing WM is because players instantly tunnel vision to Dual Wield Explosive Shot. You can test with WM but it's requested you at least do one test without.
  8. Sore Steadfast Player

    We've been doing "live tests" with that spec I described across multiple ranges / powersets. I'd be worried about using an actual live toon with differences.

    I think I might have confused you regarding melee. Your melee tests should be point blank. Your ranged tests should be >15m away. You can do a midrange test too but it isn't required.
    • Like x 1
  9. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    So what we're your results between tunso testing and normal testing? I bet you found tunso testing to give inaccurate data didn't you. And whether they like it or not mid-range is a thing and needs to be recognized. Things need to be tested how they are not how the devs think stuff is. In order for them to get the powers balance they are gonna have to get on the same page the players are.
    • Like x 4
  10. toast Well-Known Player

    well in the case that melee is considered to be out to 12.5m, does a melee tap hit and damage any target from 12.5m out? not including lunge because you can lunge at 25m out. i use hb's on with my toons and its not something ive ever thought about til now. if a melee tap does not hit and damage a target from 12.5m out then his testing rules are truly flawed and proves that mid range does exist. true melee, not in game, is 0-3m depending on the length of the weapon, not upto 12.5m or 41.01 FEET. now if you believe that melee can be done at 41'.01" apart, you might as well be larping.
  11. Xibo Loyal Player

    Hard Light
    Single target
    No trinket and soda used
    Might: 8616
    Precision: 4616
    CR 126 full precision mods with Core Strenght
    Rotation: Fan-Impact-Light Blast-Minigun-Ram

    • Like x 1
  12. CrazyArtBrown Dedicated Player

    If you can get one non-Elite 110 piece to swap out there. the partial set bonus is just some stats, right?. The difference between 6.2 and 7.3 base mods is also some stats. You may be able to reach the target Precision or Might numbers anyway just by adjusting where you put SP at. For example, I have a mix of 7.2 7.3 might mods, but I can lower my stats to match a 6.2 set just by moving SP from Might to something useless like Restoration.
    • Like x 1
  13. Sore Steadfast Player

    It's a bit erratic. A lot of the collection of the data points happened over the weekend. I want to give them a chance to evaluate what we've collected and respond.
    • Like x 2
  14. CrazyArtBrown Dedicated Player

    Wouldn't people doing a live test normally have Penetrating Strikes or Core Strength in there too? You can swap easily enough for free, but you're more likely to get accuracy on a live test if the suggested config matches the optimal config people already run with.

    Presumably you mean these league proficiencies:

    Damage Out (+3%)
    Critical Attack (+1%)
    Might & Precision (+3)

    Are there any others that might impact the test? There's this rumor that higher Vit makes power fueled pets hit harder, but I've never tried to confirm that.

    As for the generator mods, 6.2 mods add 24 Might or Precision. and are easy to get because they sell at the vendors. People who have higher mods may be able to balance that out by adjusting where SP is spent. Here's a table showing the correction needed if you have a full set at various levels:

    Mod Bonus : x4 : x4 Correction
    Might 6.2 24 96 0
    Might 6.3 36 144 -48
    Might 6.3 Ex 54 216 -120
    Might 7.1 26 104 -8
    Might 7.2 52 208 -112
    Might 7.3 78 312 -216

    Precision 6.2 24 96 0
    Precision 6.3 36 144 -48
    Precision 6.3 Ex 53 212 -116
    Precision 7.1 32 128 -32
    Precision 7.2 64 256 -160
    Precision 7.3 96 384 -288

    I for example have 3 might 7.1 (+26 each = +78) and one 7.2 (+52) for a total of +130, while the testing target is +24 x 4 = +96. That means I'd need to eliminate 34 might from the normal way you'd spend 160 SP to get the same Might as four 6.2 units. I switched mine from Might to Power.
    • Like x 1
  15. Sore Steadfast Player

    LOL. I'd re-read what you quoted.

    For the other stuff, I'd kind of rather people just use PC Test and make a toon to that spec. I don't want to overly complicate things because people will inevitably do this...


    I know that kind of shuts out people only playing on the live servers but I'd rather people do both a Tunso Test and a Live Test at this point. I'm not really interested (right now) in just a Live Test in isolation.
  16. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    I don't know about you but i tested 4 powers with tunso testing and normal testing and it took me about a hour to figure out that the tunso method isn't getting the correct results. I actually knew before i even tested it that it wasn't going to get the correct results but i tested it just to be sure. I tend to work fast especially when things are this simple. Just knowing how the powers work with different setups its common sense that the tunso method would't be correct. I don't know how they don't see that and why they need to be convinced, they develop the game they should be more in tuned with simple things like this.

    I'm not ripping them apart just disappointed that we need to jump though hoops and explain their own game to them. Sometimes i might come across as a dic* but thats only cause i understand how things work and i hate how long it take stuff to get going around here. This is all very simple stuff.
    • Like x 2
  17. generalzod Committed Player

    Man I don't get his testing myself ? But I do know I took my electric yesterday after update and I have 200 plus skill points at cr 126 full moded and on 8 targets the avg over 30 sec paser was 25 k and I peak at 27 once . Then I took my sons charater cr 126 full moded fire 94 skill points , remember 94 and I produce and avg of 24 k a lot of times and peaked at 28 k ! I was amazed ! And once again with my avg about 1 k more then him he beats me in raids because he all ways gets to reach hi amounts of damage with his fast burst most the time I don't even get rotation really going ! So even if Tunso getting around same numbers you have to look at burst vs non burst powers .
    • Like x 1
  18. generalzod Committed Player

    Also mepps said privately there gonna get togather with testers has anyone been contacted yet ? This is a great idea hope there getting to this fast ! And they get unbiased good players
  19. CrappyHeals Devoted Player

    And that is exactly why i suggested some things in the electric thread of how to make it a bit faster on the setup and more efficient. You kill a set of adds move to the next and egen is still on cool is that even right lol
  20. Sore Steadfast Player

    Thanks a ton for the test results you provided. I was able to incorporate it into a larger reporting of results. I didn't get any data from anyone else so I thought I'd thank you again!
    • Like x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.