GU50, Tunso Testing, and Player Testing

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Sore, Jul 16, 2015.

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  1. Fies Committed Player

    according to Tunsos Post the 2 ranges are: 1)everything< 25m, 2)=25m if I remember correctly although I think >12,5-25m isnt really relevant or is it?
  2. Rokyn Dedicated Player

    I can contribute some Earth info using the Tunso Test. I think this will be interesting.
    • Like x 1
  3. Radium Devoted Player

    I think the thought behind it is 0-12.5 is Melee and 12.5-25 is Range. The big problem lays in certain powers definition of Melee. Rage Melee is not the same as Ice Melee in this case.
    • Like x 7
  4. Sore Steadfast Player

    I'd vary that a little to say the thought with melee is that you're at 0m and might additionally be hitting other targets up to 7m and 12.5m away.
    • Like x 2
  5. Fies Committed Player

    I shouldnt have quoted/replied like that as its imo basically the same and it was misleading. The point of my post should be whether anyone thinks 12,5-25 is relevant at all.
  6. Sage-Rapha Steadfast Player

    You may need to do one with regular pet and one with despawn.
    point blank and range too since the pets scalar functions that way.. (which is dumb imo)
    • Like x 1
  7. Sore Steadfast Player

    Celestial sure does. :)
  8. Remander Steadfast Player

    Here's the relevant portion of his post:

    "First a word about range! We have two ranges. They are "ranged", which is 25m and it causes lower damage. Then we have "melee", which causes more damage and it is less than 25m; usually at least half that. There's no such thing as "mid range". That means there's no such thing as a distance where something should do more damage than range but less damage than melee."

    When he says "at least half of that," that's the 12.5 m in. Problem occurs with there being a subset of abilities that only damaged from 7 m in. That creates a third range partition. What he's saying is that there is not supposed to be that 7-12.5 m mid range. It's only supposed to be 25 m in and 12.5 m in. Outside of 12.5 m is lower damage potential than 12.5 m in.

    Unless you're Celestial, of course. ;)
    • Like x 2
  9. Remander Steadfast Player

    Yes, this is that reverse way to think about it. It's the difference between target-based ranging and attacker-based ranging.
  10. MEBegnalsFan Devoted Player

    My thoughts on this is that you have melee point blank damage and Range damage. The average of the two is probably DBG thought on balance of powers.

    Meaning if I'm doing 25K melee and 20K range my average is 22.5K they may say ok that is good for HL because Ice gets 23K average.

    Even though Ice melee is doing 30K and range is doing 16K. The average would be 23K.

    I'm curious if that is what they do or if they look at just melee and just range indepdentent of each other. All of these little things matter.

    Sore, did they tell you what is baseline damage for melee and range is? Or are they waiting to set the baseline with the new DLC?
  11. MEBegnalsFan Devoted Player

    Which makes no sense at all. 7-12.5 is not valid for some abilities making them higher risk, but the reward they bring does not exist compared to the abilities that can hit targets in the 7-12.5 range. Why bother using X ability that is 7m or closer when the reward are small or makes not sense given how many one shots we have in this game. The lone expection are for solo and duos. These instnace is where abilities that are 7 or less shien but in 4 and 8 man content mostly 8 man, using such abilities make you a liability to your group and if you use them regulary you will get a kick. I know from playing Necro with HL. I got kicked as 121 using HL melee. I was told I was a liability. So intead of making things balance they just made the community more toxic towards each other. Good job.
  12. Fies Committed Player

    I didnt know as Im not very knowledgeable :) but I could imagine sth like that. Wouldnt that be another (yet not- excluding) range?
  13. Remander Steadfast Player

    Point was that Celestial has no range variation in damage potential. If anything, damage potential goes down the closer you get, because you're more vulnerable to having your combos interrupted.
    • Like x 4
  14. Fies Committed Player

    Thats what my first post in this thread is about (maybe I failed to express it :)) as I think its mandatory that Devs acknowledge that there is a "mid range" and I dont think balancing leads anywhere unless they do.
  15. Remander Steadfast Player

    Would probably be easier if they just made the 7 m attacks hit out to 12.5 m. They could adjust damage from there to shore up the balancing.
    • Like x 2
  16. Fies Committed Player

    Sounds like a great solution.
  17. Electrizzaro Loyal Player

    I like where this is going. If I was a pc player I would help more with these trsts. My sub on the pc will run out in a week so I will see what I can do. I would like to point out that for electric there is no closer you are the more damage you do part to its AM. We do have eburst but that is literally just one cast to set up the dot faster and most skip it for a burst move because it nets more damage.

    On test I pointed out how each dot in our 3 dot combo was of a different strength. IF they based the combined dot off of eburst strenght, egen and the electrified dot strenght then we would have some close range stuff going on. However right now that is not how it works....hope that made sense
    • Like x 1
  18. Immortal Kyrro Loyal Player

    I've tried every possible loadout. Sorcery is not print out the numbers of fire ice quantum. If you think you can hit 30k^ with sorcery please post it. I find wm still doing more damage without fury but even that is in the 19-20 range. Abd with a rotation that could only be sustained by 2 trolls

  19. L T Devoted Player

    I've always tested at near and far range, and my near tests were "as close as I needed to be for peak damage".

    I've always tested both with and without home turf mods, but never with just the one home turf mod. The fact that the devs don't generally do that probably explains a lot things we've seen. I've generally tested with and without weapon mastery. Using WM really increased my dps for gadgets.

    I've never thrown away data. That's just plain wrong. I suck at celestial combos-- I mess up those rotations all the time-- but I posted the numbers anyway (with an explanation). I think Remander still laughs at those posts.

    A 10-second damage summary seems very short. I've always used a 1-2 minute window when testing, generally with 3-5 samples.

    Because I've tested differently, are all of the tests that I've posted considered invalid? Has it all been ignored? Should it have been?

    If we all test in exactly the same way, is there a point? How will bugs or fringe cases get found?
    • Like x 1
  20. shiny mackerel Committed Player

    Definitely curious about this. The balance of stats are different in this testing spec. Modding changes your might:dps (prec) ratio a bit since both gear affinities and mods give different might : prec than gear and sp. A relatively small difference, but it could be magnified by the fact that some powers get % stat buffs. And also throw off some powerset comparisons since some powers don't get stat buffs. Having 5% less crit chance from affinities also make crit chance buffs stronger than they should be, another issue since some powers don't get crit buffs.

    and also
    in addition to this, pet based powers might look very different since pet strength will remain the same at CR 126 while player damage goes down significantly, in the ballpark of ~25-35% less according to Sore and Radium. This will probably be a lot more significant than stat differences with pets contributing so much of the damage. Pet powers should look like they're performing a lot better in the tunso test spec than when fully spec'd.
    • Like x 4
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