Test Discussion GU106: Nature Balance Changes

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Batuba, Aug 31, 2020.

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  1. L T Devoted Player

    Having actually been on the test server to check all this out, I can assure you Nature is still in a good spot. DPS wise it still parses as good or better than electric on 8 targets. You're generating supercharge pretty fast with most load outs, giving you access to constant buff/load out changes your supercharges. In the league hall on test, I was able to switch back and forth between gorilla and wolf forms not long after the cool downs were over.

    I did less testing of the healer side, but on live water and sorcery healers use eye of Gemini very frequently with 5000 cost supercharges -- it's just no longer literally constant with nature.


    Nature's supercharge builder does almost 3 times the damage of other supercharge builder abilities of other power sets. The fact that it can be refreshed doesn't mean at all that it does no damage.
  2. Aspar Agus Well-Known Player

    The combat log shows that it does no damage.
  3. L T Devoted Player

    And yet any idiot can stand in front of a sparring target, cast serpent call, and see the 12 ticks of poison damage it inflicts. And if said idiot is on the test server, he or she could quickly and easily change to any other power and compare the total damage with the exact same stats. Spoiler Alert: Munitions is the closest by far, but it isn't that close.
  4. Charlieboy Well-Known Player


    There is no need to respond in such an aggressive way. I think the difference is that serpent call doesn't do any damage besides the dots it puts on the target, whereas similar powers such as briar do actual damage and then apply the dots. As you suggested any idiot can read a combat log so why you didn't pick that up I dont know.

    Also I think you will find that Arc Lightning kicks *** as a sc generator and outperforms most others
    • Like x 1
  5. Aspar Agus Well-Known Player

    No need to get personal. I haven't called anyone any names.

    The description of the power says it deals damage over time, the description also mentions a power interaction where it applies poison that deals damage over time. Only one of those conditions is true. The power itself deals 0 damage over time.

    If you look at the description of the other Poison powers like Briar. They mention that the power deals damage, and then has a power interaction that applies poison that deals damage over time. In this case the combat logs show that it both deals a small burst of damage as well as getting the poison DOT.

    It would be like if Metabolism didn't have a Heal over Time and instead all you got was a pheremone stack.

    Cast Serpent Call and then cast harvest every 6 seconds to keep the poison up indefinitely. This will deal at least as much damage as casting Serpent Call and then casting Serpent Call and Harvest back to back every 6 seconds (when Serpent Call comes off cooldown) Re-applying the poison application doesn't matter in the second case because harvest will keep the poison up regardless. It is the only SC generator where you gain nothing other than SC when you fit it into a normal rotation. So its a SC generator that actively doesn't want to be spammed to gain SC.
  6. L T Devoted Player

    I neither got personal, nor called anyone any names. I did *not* call you an idiot. What I said was that any idiot-- myself included-- could get on test, open the CR166 gear box, obtain the 7,443 might that I did, and verify the numerical results that I present.
    I'm not sure if you're purposely distorting things here; but just in case you're not:
    • Go on the test server, obtain a CR166 gear box, and put 1 skill point into superpowered to obtain 7443 might
    • Grab a couple of test server helpers. Change your power to Hard Light and cast Light Weight Strike on a Sparring Target,
    • Then switch powers to Nature and use Serpent Call on the very same sparring target.
    The damage over time from poison is, in fact, the damage from Serpent Call. At CR166 (that was the CR gear box when revamp was first on test) Hard Light's Light Weight Strike does 850-915 damage for an average of about 882. That's fairly typical for a CR166 supercharge builder. But don't take my word for it-- CR166 gear boxes are readily available on test. Munitions and Rage average about 1200 damage at that CR-- I consider them outliers. But any idiot-- not that I'm calling you an idiot-- can cast Serpent call on the test server with CR166 gear and see Serpent Call hits 12 times for 190-230 for a total of about 2520. It's 2.8x hard light's supercharge builder and more than 2x rage and munitions.
    Again I have to question if you're being deliberate here. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say... Welcome to Nature! You get this awesome mechanic where Harvest can refresh all your DoT poisons. Just cast Harvest every 12 seconds and the party never ends. If you forget, get interrupted., or otherwise mess up, you have to cast your individual poisons over again, one at a time. Vine Lash, Briar, and Serpent Call.

    I think it's disingenuous to claim that poisons do no damage. It's like saying that Nature somehow outperforms all the other DPS power sets when most of it's main abilities do no damage at all.
  7. Aspar Agus Well-Known Player

    I've repeatedly said the poison does damage. We are agreed. When a power says it does damage over time and also applies a power interaction (poison) that does damage over time, that is what I expect when I use the power.

    Its same as Metabolism which says it heals group members over time, as well as applying pheromones to heal over time. You wouldn't say this was working correctly if you only ever got the pheromone ticks.

    Regardless, I am done with this particular discussion.

    Back to my primary point. Nature has TOO MANY supercharges, many of which duplicate each other. Simple math suggests that one of Rampage or Gorilla or Wolf or even Neo-Venom will produce the maximum DPS depending on your stats/artfacts/buffs and using any of the others will ALWAYS be a DPS loss. There is no need for this.
    • Like x 1
  8. Walvine Well-Known Player

    Nature still broken because there still is no ranged burst power . The finisher needs a burst power companion.
  9. MarvelHawkeye Well-Known Player

    In this case, I believe that the devs have the right idea. A nature nerf is definitely needed. That being said, I believe that the 50% SC for wolf and insectoid is a bit much. I suggest that you extend cooldowns to 60-80 seconds instead of making SC higher. I would also like to see the 20 second gorilla buff stay. I can live with only a 30% dps buff.

    Regardless, thank you for the updates Batuba!
  10. gemii Dedicated Player

    Give nature the 8 man shield since all other heals have a 8 man shield but the shield cannot absorb full damage. You can’t have a strong shield plus the best HOTS. Where’s the draw back here? Why would I want to be any other heal than nature
  11. inferno Loyal Player

    I can live with that. Nature just needs enough shielding for the group to allow the Healing over time to take over. I still would like Roar to be adjusted or looked into by Batuba if possible. Just an acknowledgment that he'll look into it even if changes can't be squeezed into this update.
  12. jptml217 New Player

    As a person note, it these changes go though as is, it seems to encourage sticking in form. That works for Gorilla only. I s the healer
    SC boster item part of this 'rebalance' or just somehing that will be considered at some point. I think nature healing without bug form chages can work ok, that is not true for dps by a large margin.
  13. jarroden New Player

    when patching the sharing of poisons u have broken the grimorium verum pi for nature now its a unless artifact fix it and make it give a poison again. thank you
  14. jptml217 New Player

    Another prehaps intented drawback to wolf melee (will be only viable wolf form), is estimating when you can bounce into human form to bounce back into wolf again (especially if mechanics interrrups the new counting of rotations), thats assuming you get 50% supercharge back in that time (impossible to work this out on test server).
  15. jarroden New Player

    can u fix the grimorium verum pi for nature it isnt working anymore and its now unless on test server
  16. Batuba Developer

    Fixed Wolf Forms tactical head mod to now properly grant it's critical strike chance increase. Should be going out with next PC Test build.
    • Like x 3
  17. jptml217 New Player

    after the changes hit nature, the only sweet spot will be human form healing with no supercharge on the loadout, my gut is tellling that with no wolf 2500 supercharge there is no stepping stone upto gorrilla or down from it when the inveitable deaths happen. I will expect many will desert nature in droves. I'm gonna try it and see if dps is at all viable when it hits server for real. I'll give perhaps a couple of weeks and if its as bad as I'm expecting, I will use a power respec token
    • Like x 1
  18. jptml217 New Player

    tred dog form on live server, just to see if was viable, dps is similar to human form dps, but provides no SC regen so the form is worse than useless.
    • Like x 1
  19. Mr.W Committed Player

    Okay I understand nobody likes nerfs b/c everyone enjoys feeling powerful after hard work/spending a lot of money (which we kinda should feel lol). However, if changes are forced making regeneration a 100% 8 man shield should never happen. Yes, 8 man shields can be & were a huge part of healing but after the increase of the cost all of them (for healers) became practically worthless b/c we dont have access to them the majority of the time when we need them. (even with a 200 scrap & gem)

    Regeneration's function should remain as it is & if anything have its cost reduced to the 25% b/c those are nature's larger H.O.Ts. I agree the burst should be built into every power instead of the artifact, but the page (pseudo bio cap) & orb does basically turn every healer into electric.




    For the other changes, I understand the double buff/permanent buffs had to be looked at however i feel a better solution instead of raising the cost to 50% to keep at 25% but possibly lock the players in the forms for the entire cooldowns 1st & prevent switching to a different one while transformed. I do agree with you on the general idea with (slight) increases to the cool downs if its still troublesome
  20. Batuba Developer

    I will take a look at Grimorium
    • Like x 1
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