Work In Progress GU103: Tank Balance

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Batuba, Mar 6, 2020.

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  1. The Anxient Loyal Player

    If you're going to go on a ridiculous rant like this at least have your facts straight. Kiting did not start with the revamp. After the revamp you could still face tank Age of Justice, Riddled With Crime, Earth 3, and Deluge. The current incarnation of tanking started with either Titans or Atlantis.
    • Like x 2
  2. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    When everyone talks about kiting are you expecting the developers to balance tank powersets against elite content only? As you don't need to kite at all in regular, so I feel you need to make that distinction in your argument. Also if you don't want to have to kite at all are you expecting tanks to be able to face tank npc encounters like Cerberus in FIE? The poison spores in MOME? 15+ npcs and 2 Subbosses in COTE? instances like HIVE where you have a boss, passive dot and multiple npcs? Kiting requirements will differe rraid to raid it just depends on the content in front of us and you can't expect them to balance tank powersets against the possibility of that sort of content because if they did that then tanks would just be broken in other raids and be unkillable. Same with if they balanced tanks around the concept of SM. I may not agree with what stats revamp did in terms of forcing tanks to be more active and taking away the effect of fortified blocking but at the same time what most of you are talking about around "balance" and not having to kite is no where near balance at all....
    • Like x 3
  3. The Anxient Loyal Player

    We had elite content for years without kiting in every fight.
    • Like x 8
  4. MrPlumberman Active Player

    I get what your saying but I think the community is getting pretty clear that this is not the style of game play that they want. Not just from this thread but also in the fact that on some nights when trying to form a group, that the tank role is typically the hardest one to find. I've had some nights where we've waited and shouted in LFG for more than 30 minutes to get a group going.

    I've got no issue in making mechanics in raids that require a second tank to hold adds or to have to separate bosses. Hell, as a troll main I remember having 2 trolls in a group and sending tells to one another about who has PoT. But having to kite groups of adds in hallways because a specific powerset can't handle all the damage at once is pretty pathetic and a good reason behind a lot of the posts on here.
    • Like x 3
  5. Rejchadar Inquisitor

    A proposal to improve the survival of earth pet, similar to how damage is transferred from tank to pet, is to make the pet also heal when the tank is being healed. This would solve two problems: healers who do not use ability healing allies and the need for a specific ability for the tank itself ...
    • Like x 1
  6. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    What you are describing is a tanking skill issue, even raids today you don’t have to kite for your lives for most encounters. You didn’t even need to kite in CoTE as atomic, and that fight was one of the biggest examples of kiting. If a player has poor personal skill as a tank and the only way they can survive with low gear, artifacts and sp is to kite that is not a dev problem nor a balance problem.
    • Like x 2
  7. Awsome Well-Known Player

    I'm at work during the busiest part of my season, so I don't have time to read the responses to this post, so I apologize if this has been brought up, but aside the typical balance issues that was mentioned in the dev's original post, there is one thing that is more important to change about the tank role than anything else.


    To feel like a tank, we need to be able to stand there when everyone else is blown back. Should it be 100% immunity? No. But I need to be able to stand my ground way more than any other role. PERIOD.

    This (along with finding a way to remove kiting from the game) will give back that tank feel, that most want their Tank characters to have.
    • Like x 4
  8. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    What raid needs kiting in the hallways? If a tank is struggling in hallways that is a personal skill problem. Are they using chronos to stun? Are they changing their loadout for one with crowd control moves or just keeping the same cookie cutter loadout? Are they going for counters? Are they just standing still with no shields or mitigation while npcs do 5 hit combos on them?

    You can’t balance tank power sets around tanks sucking at their role.
    • Like x 3
  9. The Anxient Loyal Player

    I have atomic tanked everything in this game. It's definitely not a skill problem. I've seen your fix for atomic. Rotate shields and throw thermochem in there from time to time. That's not atomic tanking. If I wanted to be a shield tank I'd play ice. All tanks should be able to survive using their intended mechanic with their shield being for emergencies.
    • Like x 6
  10. Draconiano Committed Player

    For me the problem with atomic tank is that the combos are too slow, not the length of the quark aura. Sometime it's very hard to react to a 1 shot when you are mid combo. Also you can't kite as easily as other tanks because of that.

    While you are at it, please fix these atomic bugs:

    1. Quark aura not vanishing (visually) when you are using man-bat form.
    2. Density shield is bug when you are flying, I explain it here.
    • Like x 2
  11. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"


    That’s not even “balance” you want for atomic then, that’s a CC issue that’s been holding atomic back from its “intended mechanic” it was a poweraet designed during WM/AM era where crowd control actually meant something and couldn’t be overwritten, now that isn’t the case, can’t do much as atomic when you have to combo and instead of juggling the npcs have immunity and are all hitting you and the self heals aren’t as quick nor change like Rage. Why do you think Rage needed a nerf? Cause it’s king in this stats revamp era cause Rage always had garbage CC and depended on severe. We can’t just buff Atomic through the roof just case they broke breakout profiles and have a bunch of npcs zero willpower at stats revamp, that effects all the other roles just as much.
  12. The Anxient Loyal Player

    No need for any balancing then. All tanks load up on movement and iconic shields. Nothing to see here folks.
    • Like x 2
  13. MrPlumberman Active Player

    Just want to point out not everyone runs around with full 160-200 artifacts and has 500 plus sp. Not everyone has a league full of the same. I was giving an example that probably wasn't realistic due to I'm not a tank main. I'm not lobbying for a buff, I just don't want to see anymore reasons for a hurting tank population to drop any further.

    Also I do realize that some issues fall on the "quality" of the person. Not everyone wants to kite all the time is all I'm saying. Gonna bow out of the conversation now as I said before I'm not a tank main and I'd like the conversation to focus on the ones being mostly impacted by these changes. Thank you for your responses.
    • Like x 3
  14. appocolyps Committed Player

    Wow this is a flex in stealth mode of ever i saw one, yes it can be done, with great difficuilty and i would bet less than 1% of the tanking community could do it, just because it can be done doesnt mean it should be done that way.
    • Like x 4
  15. Aggro Well-Known Player

    Kiting was not a thing before the revamp and especially in SM on till higher rounds of course, Kiting became the norm, again in SM now. there's also reason behind it, we are working with 1 immunity so we cant rotate them like we use too to receive more heals, Also our shields just go away like they mean nothing shouldn't be a thing, Im not saying to buff the tanks to face tank but their should be a happy medium.

    1. Kiting isn't a Mechanic am sorry, is a way to survive when the power itself can't (just like lunge spamming its the same call it what you want it was a surviving tool)
    2. Shields are not working as intended if you get knocked out of them especially in current SM. Its legit ridiculous
    3. At those high rounds our shields do not matter, your buffs do not matter, immunity doesn't matter, everything a tank is meant too do other then playing tag and run doesn't matter so just like trolling with prec the tank role is stuck with a alternative tool like kiting or in the last SM's case exploiting lunge mechanic, the tank role isn't a role the powers them selfs dont work other then pull... tag YOUR IT.
    • Like x 6
  16. Proxystar #Perception

    And you're saying that's not a balance issue? Since you've state quite clearly there, only one power...

    I'm symapthetic towards both sides of the argument although I don't think kiting is as bigger issue as some are suggesting it's also become a little too prolific in some elite end content, not all of it but a good chunk of it and the inferior tanking powers, because there are some, especially when it comes to face tanking are being forced to kite and that isn't a player problem.

    I think what players are getting at is that they're happy to seperate things out but when they do, they don't want to have to still run around to survive, they'd have expected seperating them out would have reduced enough of the damage in take to make the face tanking more viable, of course the damage in and mechanics etc would still require them to not make mistakes with their rotations and just face roll everything.
    • Like x 1
  17. Aggro Well-Known Player

    we gotta wait for a video response, he making one right now, but all i got to say is, did tanks kite paradox wave? or throne elite?
    oh wait GOME?

    Other then kiting that spider's one shot from wave i dont think so... im just more into sm territory
  18. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Kiting has been around in the game since the beginning, you can't just face tank everything throughout dcuo history lol, is it the excessive man-bat rolling kiting tanks do now adays? no but that shouldn't a) even be intended b) necessary whatsoever. Most tanks just kite because its easy not out of necessity for survival. SM high rounds was about counters not shields nor healing because the damage was so high you would be dead regardless. The change to immunity is what impacted that, not powerset balance. This was one of the main reasons why people said SM can't return post stats revamp because of those changes to immunity and fortified blocking because you would have to foundationally change SM. Also this SM had terrible boss choices in regards to their combos for face tanking and required range or kiting. Once again that isn't anything to do with "tank" balance which is the point of this thread that is just more things that was wrong with SM that in a 2 week window on test when 1/2 the time was spent fixing the stupid role buff system the devs didn't have time to adjust any actual scaling or boss choices.
    • Like x 1
  19. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    -Atomic could face tank the adds
    -Earth could face tank the adds
    -Rage could not because the heals weren't fast enough to recover the multiple hits at once and if you got cc'd by them which was common you could miss your immunity
    -Ice doesn't do well whatsoever in rapid multi hit instances where the sub bosses hit hard enough to strip shields but that is how ice has always been.
    -Fire has largely been weak since stats revamp and didn't specialize in anything

    They fix manbat form which they should because tanks rely on it WAY TOO MUCH and alot of the kiting issue is corrected there
  20. Proxystar #Perception

    Those are balance issues though, right

    Also I think it's fair to say just because something has been the way it has been for a long time doesn't make it exempt from improvement.
    • Like x 10
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