Test Discussion GU 57: Light Mid-range Adjustments

I wouldn't be surprised if I got banned for saying this, but your perspective as a dev needs to be adjusted to a "live sense" like what the players in this thread refer to. I don't like the argument of raids vs sparring targets because of personal skill level/other factors, but in terms of raid factors such as what range you'll be doing damage at, what rotations you can and can't use, etc., that all needs to be taken into account and that last update didn't. You fixed the damage on the sparring targets but that excess damage was the only thing that kept HL even close to the other powers when at melee to mid range damage. Every other power already beat HL close range compared to mid and you nerfed the mid range to put it down that much more. Someone did the math and said it was around a 5% damage increase compared to live, which is minimal to say the least. Out of the issues between the AM, power points, and loadouts that were the real problems for why HL wasn't keeping up, we're seeing it as you chose to beat a dead horse and nerf the damage instead. We basically see that currently as a waste of time considering it changed nothing for HL in major way like what the other issues would've. HL is still going to be an under performing power for a really long time until those other changes get addressed. And even when you do fix those, because you took out clipping, you essentially just irritated every "OG" HL dps and made them not want to be this power anymore. Honestly, during the pvp update testing we warned you about leaving out the nerf to the healing powers and you chose your route instead and the forums and youtube got lit up with complaints. You're asking for those of us proclaiming "the end of light" to give you a break, honestly, I can guarantee you the community won't if this update hits live and I'm just being honest when I say that. We're trying to help you out by giving you a realistic sense of how true HL fans will react to these changes, if you want to ignore that for your definition of balance, then so be it. I respect your position as a developer of this game and the work that you put in on a consistent basis to try to make this game better from your point of view, but to me, I hold devs to a higher standard for balancing the game and interacting in a positive direction with their community as well. I thought we had went in a positive direction when I saw sincere compromise and consistent work done during the pvp update phase of testing, but that same "teamwork" so to speak seems to have waned in this thread and that is what I think has several of us disappointed so to speak. We were originally split on clipping but now are clearly with a majority in favor of bringing back the original "clipping patch" we started on with just damage changes but we're going in the opposite direction now. To those that are on your side in defending the route that you're taking, I am no longer concerned, because after these changes get out of testing feedback, when all of the HL players that have been waiting months/years for this see the changes and can give feedback, enough will be said by them. I wish you a good day.

with that we know get back to regular testing, that's the end of the complaining show

NO....I use that when a DPS gets all stupid to protect them...by knocking the add into the tank...

Also on that page is Sore asking that the Devs acknowledge that being able to do range, mid-range and melee with a single loadout and rotation is an advantage over those powers that have to use armories and to balance accordingly. Just thought that was interesting considering the comments in this thread.

Do you even know what 95% CI means? If so post the formula you used. Besides that, when talking about SCs hardly any power can take advantage of them within their AM (no the ICE elemental bug doesn't count.) Strafing Run and Ballistic assault would need massive boosts to even be vaguely useful.

I think Light barrier and triage and Restore should be obtainable and shielded from the AM reset tag and that the player should be able to get all the range and melee powers you need. But for you and others to call this nerf or only a 5% BS is completely irrational and inaccurate.

Once word gets around, the LFG mindset will just revert back to the current status quo on live for HL. Currently, a HL sees frequent persona non grata unless in troll role due to the poor dps. If this goes live, the inability to use a SC or a shield due to loss of AM or poor PP allocation will push them back into troll role. Frequent deaths from melee will definitely not help the situation and will likely result in numerous kicks. Don't give me that BS about running with a league, we all know this game is built around the queue system, and perception is reality when it comes to LFG and pugs.

Ok, now I understand your concern but I can't agree with it. You're essentially saying other powers have little hints and helps that allow a player to eek out a bit of extra damage, so HL should have those too. The problem I have with that position is most of those little helps were discovered after that fact....not exploits but player-discovered efficiency gains. Most of those little helps were not all intentionally designed by the Devs and some are already confirmed as bugs (ala e.g. ice elemental), so to say the HL update is a failure because the Devs are not intentionally adding in some little helps to eek out the extra damage is a false conclusion.

Best to simply test HL using the prescribed Tunso tests and report the results.....leave it at that.

I tested Live vs Test. Same CR stats, etc...

Putting my Live toon at 6M gives me 3 ticks with Ram and Impact. Flipping through the animation of LB and MG on live I produce 5% less damage than I do using mid range damage on test with the same CR and stats. So Live I do toughly 1500 less in DPS or 5%. That is the 5% damage difference between Live and Test. If Live did not have the ability to boost the damage by by passing the animation, the difference would be greater than 5%, maybe around 10-15%, but due to the fact on Live I can skip the animation to boost my combo range damage it is very close to the mid range damage update for Light on test.

This update is not really giving Light players any major damage improvement when in the 4-7M range, which is where I typically DPS at. Also with this update, the mid range damage is not really improved upon what we already have for light. That is what Delta was trying to point out and what I'm trying to point out now that Light has been crippled even further.

What the update is giving Light player are mechanic updates long over due.

If devs want to keep it as is....I hope the Light players who do not post here come here and start complaining when Light update hits and it fails.

I have and it is within parameters but on the low side, meaning it could get a slight buff to be closer to the 30K mid range damage area. It is more in the high 28k to low 29K for damage.

So you don't actually know what a 95% CI test is? Ok fair enough. I'd still like to see a screenshot/video of you on the test server with parses on your new laptop.

As I stated earlier, I thought the change to LB and MG was unnecessary, but the difference in DPS after the changes were negligible.

Well I ran almost exclusively league runs and even then I feel that replacing me with another league mate would have been better. Sure I can troll and do it pretty well but so do other league mates. If I can't carry my share in the raid then I'd rather give my place to someone who can.

33-34K average DPS down to a bit under 30K on average...yeah sure thing, whatever you say....

1. True about gadgets
2. Bug
3. Probably a bug, the geiger am was intended for clipping last I checked not jump cancelling.
4. True.
5. True.
6. You got a point, but keep this in mind: Other powersets either have to stop their high dps to continue their buff, HL doesn't have to worry about buffing, it can stay and infinitely combo. I mean the whole message is right there "Infinite Combo", it means you don't stop for anything. The only reason inspiration existed was due to the fact that clipping was being previously considered as HL's AM back in gu 36. But a lot of HL players voiced there opinions and preferred this AM.

this is becoming pointless, every page is the same, it doesn't super clip, it doesn't beat ice by 10,000,000, i still get countered and that should be fixed, i want to be like Ice, i want to be able to one shot everything. honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to stop to update and leave it for after DoT powers, just to get some of you off their back.

HL am has to be refreshed every 3 min, so you can combo for 3 min not infinitely.

That is how I feel. If I'm not performing I ask to be excused. It is why I also prefer playing support roles over DPS, because DPS is more about competition than many will admit here. And being top is what it is all about.

I honestly don't give a **** about being top. I just would like to have all powers have true balanced from ramp up time to max damage potential to having similar methods or tactics to produce like damage in the melee area of 4-7M, where most DPS play.

Right now that is not happening. And for all of you stating you melee with Light, I would like to see that in BPE. Don't say it is not feasible as you just proved my point.

It's True. But what's the point of having different powersets if everything plays the same? They are skins if you make them like that.


HL can have everything in 1 loadout, considering all it has to do is tap/hold melee/range.

Just not the buffs.

There is a way around this now. Use a trinket, supply drop, orbital, cola, etc.... As long as you do not use any ability other than the ones to get back into the combo.

It's only set for 3 minutes for testing purposes, I doubt it will remain like this on live. Otherwise there's gonna be major problems.

You state you melee, prove it to me in PB, BN or BDE.

The other thing is range...All the powers I mentioned can do melee damage if they move a bit inside the 7M range, Light get mid range damage. If an add get closer due to a knockback, Light damage does not change, but for other powers, boosted damage due to range.

I would be fine if they kept light damage right where it is, if they gave light a viable 4-7M combo rotation that produces melee damage. That has been my ask for so long now it is not even funny any more. I play in the 6-7M range yet I will not produce melee damage. This is where things get ugly between Light and other powers as in other powers are producing 15%+ more damage. This is where Light goes from being competitive to not being competitive.