Test Discussion GU 57: Light Mid-range Adjustments

Excellent!!

I'd like a couple other swaps taken under consideration.
1. Spike Quake and Ram
2. Grasping Hand and INS (hey they're in the same tree...)

First one will help with the PP squeeze. Second one I'm just reaching for

No swapping gh out with inspiration. Trolls still exist.

The reason for these tests in the first place is to create an even ground for baseline testing. Of course things are different in the game. And the whole aspect of getting stunned and knocked back has been addressed already...we already have a grace period and a shortcut timer of 1.5 seconds....what more can you ask for? Every DPS has to stop what they are doing to do a pickup or objective. That affects every single powerset the same way. Only DoT powers and Pet Powers get the advantage in still doing some type of damage while picking up. And whether we need an additional buff or not...we don't. People have ran multiple Live Tests with the legit infinite comboing rotations and each meet the baseline with melee exceeding the baseline. We're going to have to melee in content. Simple as that. Making it work or not is up to you. Someone else will.

Everyone that is still concerned with stuns and damage difference in actual content....should just take the moment to read this post and not skim over it. Just sit down and read it. My work is done here. I will perform one more set of Live tests for you guys after the hotfix and I'll be done.

I was thinking along the same lines with a 2 armory setup and use of INSP. Then I thought.....
WHY should I??? Looking at the way this is getting set up I will be forced to use a double armory to maximize damage.
1) Melee combo to use on mobs where The can get close
2) For bosses or when game mechanics dictate

That doesn't seem right to me as other powers can sit at a fairly safe distance and hammer away with no fear (minus lunges). I sure as heck am not going to be using claws or chainsaw on Nekron or whoever the next big baddie is....Would you?

Why are we not doing more like Doc suggested and just scale the combos to distance? Tunso implies we can use whips and chainsaw to get close (and keep in line with other powers). How does that make sense?

i agree with what you are saying! im not asking for a buff or a change in anything! like i said i see good numbers and its up to the player to make it work! i for once feel like i can make my rotations work ingame live! just hope its enough is all im saying!

That's at least 3 powers you rather see removed, I once told you the way you want the rotations would make the power OP, and you have to remember not every power in each tree can be dps or AM, inspiration might not be usefull for DPS, but for trolls it is since they don't have the burden of having to follow an AM loadout.

People refuse everything that's addressed above. You're fighting the good fight, but people can't see it

The reason you can't keep up with ice as HL while you can with earth is because ice is instant damage, if you had the AM already going into every fight (which a good HL should have) then you would be beating them with this update. And the fact you're using melee and range rotations instead of just 1 is inconsistent test as well given you're never going to be weaving in and out of either besides in situations where you don't have stress or a lot of counters to worry about. Sparring target damage is junk damage when it comes to add and you can't match < 10 second reads on the first parse but in terms of boss fights over 3 minutes going into raids, elite raids, and SM when you actually need that long term damage, that sparring target damage isn't going to lie.

I'll see if I can get an alert going but it won't be at 152 seeing as I can't control other people xD I'll make sure we're all the same cr though.

*cough* you're welcome *cough*

Can you give Inspiration some AM functionality? I just don't understand the point of this power anymore. It's a weapon buff that we're not even intended to use.

What people should do is getting prepared to pick up many dead Light dpsers trying to melee in raids.

If there is no change to the PP placement I find NO USE for Inspiration as a troll. I'm a true troll in all regards. I like to have 2 debuffs, self shield or detaunt for pick ups, group SC, power dump and PoT move. That is all six spots. Where does a power like Inspiration fit? WHERE?

Now give me a cool animation that is also a decent debuff that I would take that. But ATM I pick ST or GH as one of my debuff and the other is always LB. I never pick Encase as that debuff is annoying and Light Weight or Whip Trash, whichever one it is at the moment are debuffs I will not use due to how the ability mechanic works.

The deletion of the other two powers you mention requires adjusting power, but since that is not happening and Inspiration is not going any where, which I'm well aware of as a Light Player, we all can move past the discussion around abilities moving, deleting, etc... Though I rather wait and get a better adjustment but if it would take too much time delaying Nature or Electric updates, I will pass and take whatever they can give us to make Light more competitive and not over powered.

I get the purpose of these test, I do. But the truth is that in the past as we saw with GU50 just because it is good on a sparring target does not mean jack when you starting running content. I rather have see testing beyond Tunso Live testing at sparring targets to see how the powers perform at current tier, to see how the damage is scaling.

I hope you understand that as a player, damage scaling based on CR is critical to long term future balancing of power. What we might learn is that precision is not scaling equally to might or vice versa. The only way to test is to do 126 and than 152 at the sparring targets.

I wonder how Ice performs at 152 vs Light at 152 at the sparring target with everything but gear being equal in how it is distributed. That to me would be a balance test vs. Sparring Targets.

Say we find that Light is producing 10% more damage at 152 CR but Ice is producing 15% more damage at 152 CR. Than what we have here is a scaling issue with Might vs. Precision.

Than compare them in instance and see how the variance impact an actual run vs. hitting a non-moving target.

All of these test should matter just as much as Tunso Live Test that you are all doing. Stating no it does not matter is similar in idea stating that it is ok if Gadgets could do triple hit EMP right after hitting distract 1 time allowing for crazy damage. But we would want Gadgets fixed if that was the case. The same can be applied to any power getting mid range updates to ensure that as the player moves up in CR and in real instance they have the chance to produce like damage to other power, otherwise all of the efforts being push by developers will anger many players and some will feel the power got another GU50 update.

I personally like the updates to Light, but I want to see how the updates plays out in an actual instance and how that damage scales with CR for Light vs. Ice. I think these test are valid and show how closer powers are to being balanced both through testing, CR scaling and live instance.

The data collected doing these extra test will help for long term balancing vs. what we have today.

Do seem unfair that hl do need 2 different loadouts for mid-range vs melee. Rage players are going to have the same problem

Actually my trees are fine with that switch and tunso's.
2 points in 1st tree: claws, minigun/spikequake/ram depending on which cc effect i want
10 points in 2nd tree: everything but triage and restore
3 points in iconics for vit, crit damage, crit chance
loadout: impact, recharge, entrap/inspiration/minigun/spikequake/ram/grasping hand, light blast, shield, group shield

Uhm, are we supposed to say "thank you" at this point, or would you prefer money?

A true trolls has debuffs and buffs, where are your buffs?

Cannot get HL AM up and running until you get that hit counter up and running. That is the issue with Light power. Hit Counter determines if the AM is active or not. That has been my experience, meaning if you are using the combo running around the corner, you get boosted damage after 1.5 seconds.

Another thing we all need consider is the Neck mods. Light loses its boosted AM damage from the neck mod if interrupted, other power do not lose it. Just something else to think about.

The description says chaining combos, doesn't mention having to hit. Relentless precision I won't have until I get a hit counter but the basic AM doesn't describe that scenario which means I can just keep jumping and chaining combos going from add to add.

Huh....No....Does Gadgets have a group buff? No. Does Mental have a group buff, no. Does Munitions have a group buff, no. Does Quantum have a group buff, no. Out of all the troll powers only Light has a group buff. So where does the buff statement come from? Seriously, trolls job is power, CC effects and debuffing. Not buffing.

Buffing the group is typically the job of the healer. Out of the four healing powers only Sorcery does not have a group buff.

Nature has Hive Mind and Carnage to buff the group, Celestial has two abilities, and Electric has one that I know off hand. Buffing is healer, debuffing is controllers.

Rage also has a group buff and I use that as my damage reduction ability to help the group get better crits. But like controller powers, tank powers are mostly self buff with Rage being the exception.