Test Discussion GU 57: Light Mid-range Adjustments

Every1 using the rotation is using a controller xDDDDDDD And you're trying to say you want to use whatever combos you want and still do good damage, really? That's like saying I want to use WM as gadgets and mental and compete with atomic and fire so please buff my dot's xD

sure give me a sec, about to post a mid range one for a vid i was doing since i changed my rotation slightly, I'll link all 3 at one time. However, there are two rotations so it'll be 6 links total. The original one you have is using the fan clip. I'm about to give are the minigun clip I originally used first. About the same but the fan one is stronger just a little bit.

The only 2 things that HL still need are:

1) Snap Trap be AoE.
2) Update the supercharges.

I'd say yes to the cooldown increase with Fan also. Consistently getting back to back (sometimes back to back to back) 30k+ on 10s parsers at max range. Then that 37k-39k pops in. Even on the lower end I'm getting 27k-28k. That is not balance. I think that the people who "think" HL is fine on test just want the power to be OP when it hits live so they can be OP. This is about attaining balance among the powers. When your hitting melee damage from max range, something is off.

Maybe start with the increased cooldowns and we'll see from there.

PS - I'm using a controller on test server.

That's the main issue powers have in this game, Might and Prec are so inbalanced that everytime a might power is changed, it ends up getting nothing but buffs, but when it's a precision power it doesn't change much because devs just don't deal with the difference in both stats.

Just to weigh in here playing devil's advocate but this solution is not practical simply because the increased damage is supposed to work for both roles. The utility of Fan, Ram and Impact rely on their current cooldown. Fan because it is a multi pull, Ram because of the non-PoT push and Impact because its push and PoT. Increasing their cooldowns in anyway as a result of an Advanced Mechanic tweak should not be considered. Since the damage increase is supposed to work as a Controller you can't "just" increase it for Damage and not Controller if the goal is to give scaled standards to support roles (which is the logical route).

That said there aren't many options. You either a) do a flat damage decrease or b) not have the ability to clip at all with enhanced damage. As if you combo for 4 seconds starting from out-of-combat or 1.5 seconds in combat you can never clip a Construct Combo with a tray activation during that time. That again is not advisable either to maintain short combo sprints (used in various ways).

While this won't satisfy certain people here's my input on this whole topic:

• The infinite combo mechanic of Light was initially setup such that Chompers/Spikequake + Inspiration was accounted for in the sustained damage buff with the understanding that you would never be able to activate them again without losing damage. Thus now with a grace period and the ability to refresh them is back intact any adjustment made to account for them should ultimately. If any logical person were to apply their logic skills they should see this direct connect. The resulting effect should than be tested.
• I can execute the midrange/range clips in question just fine. In fact I learned how to do when Light was initially tweaked with a pure range and pure melee infinite combo. It is by far the easiest clips you could ever do and is directly akin to doing a traditional weapon clip. On my Earth, Sorcery and Electricity (and Nature when I am not using Canine) characters I use weapon clips every time I play them. Rage and Celestial are tuned around using clips of this nature. The clips in question are by far the easier clips that I mentioned.
• In addition I can meet Kuroki Honoo's general clipping and damage . I cannot record a video as proof simply because I cannot record and play at the same time.
• EVERY SINGLE powerset at range and midrange (using range and midrange oriented rotations) have the exact same interruptibility as every other powerset. ALL powersets (even Earth, Sorcery, Electricity and Nature) will be vulnerable to a lunge at all times assuming they are actively attacking.
  
  ALL powersets using weapons or any sort of combo including Nature, Electricity, Earth, Sorcery, Rage, Light and Atomic are vulnerable to block at melee range using melee rotations. ALL other powersets are vulnerable to interrupt at melee range using melee oriented rotations.
  
  The only rotation that is not vulnerable is Nature using a tray only Canine-style rotation. This is sure to be adjusted when Nature is looked at though. As long as you are attacking you are always vulnerable. If you are not vulnerable you are not attacking. Period. Light is no more or no less vulnerable than any other powerset in this regard. Especially in terms of the rotation brought up by Kuroki Honoo.

And for testing principles:

• Ultimately in terms of the scope of these tests it is rather irrelevant what happens during an instance. The whole point of these tests is to be controlled. The testing is to figure out how each rotation/powerset directly compares given exactly the same a)spec, b) Sparring Target number and c) distance from targets. Seeing how these changes work in content is irrelevant to how the powerset can potentially perform. The goal is the potential not the specific use compounded by several factors.
• Which leads into perfection. The whole point is to perform a rotation as near flawlessly as possible. This is why in the testing parameters Tunso specifically emphasises the need to eliminate mistakes from your overall 30 parses.
• Tests are specifically designed for PvE use. While I definitely understand the need to address outstanding issues in regards to PvP this is not the place to iron those out. The goal is to make sure Light gets within -5%/+5%: 25500 range, 30000 midrange and 35500 melee.
• If "advanced tactics" are to be considered as "extras" during these tests than every single past update should be revised since every powerset has room for tactics involving clips. All Advanced Interactions and Mobile Focused Attacks can clip via weapon taps and clip all buffs at any time. Mental and Gadgets can both clip via detaunts/stealth. Munitions can queue buffs during a channel/perform 'Splosion clips. Celestial, Rage and Atomic can clip every single 2nd/3rd input combo with a tray activation. Earth and Sorcery can clip every single weapon hold and Nature and Electricity are largely designed using weapon clips.

So based on all of that yes indeed, logically, Light should receive some sort of decrease to midrange-range combos at least to account for both Inspiration as I initially pointed out and Construct Combo clips. The reasoning here is because with all of its available tools it goes over the 5% tolerance. Whether random player A can meet that potential, is again, rather irrelevant.

Why not just negate any gains from inspiration or chompers when AM damage is on. It's that way between the atomic combos and gieger AM seems like a lot less work than lowering it all to accommodate for one rotation.

I agree on no to increase in cooldown since it effs trolls over.

Isn't that one a self buff while inspiration is a group buff?

True but I'm sure Tunso could make it so light users with active AM do not recieve any bonus from inspiration (or other similar buffs).

as a side note on the controller aspects of the cooldown, if I remember right the cooldown of burning determination from fire
is difference in dps stance than it is in tank. If they can do that with HL that'll solve that problem.

wouldn't that make inspiration only useful for like 4 seconds?

Except conceptually Atomic (or any other powerset) is Advanced Mechanic + Regular Stat Buff. Light is currently Advanced Mechanic + Accommodated Stat Buff + Regular Stat Buff. What I am merely proposing is to get rid of the Accommodated Stat Buff now that Light can refresh the Regular Stat Buff on command without dropping the Advanced Mechanic.

You purpose getting rid of the Regular Stat Buff again. It is not a bad idea necessarily unless the goal is to also given use to more of Light's loadout spaces and Inspiration + Chompers/Spikequake as a whole. Your idea frees up 2 spots again but relegates Inspirations useful to Controller only (again).

Practically it won't matter either except for design concept. If the goal is to standardize how stat buffs are applied across all powersets than getting rid of the Regular Stat Buff again goes against that goal. Likewise if the goal goal were to make Light rotations more in-depth than it would go against that goal to get rid of the Regular Stat Buff.

Either way one of them should drop now that you can double dip into the same caliber of buff.

Yeah that's the idea, I want that specific rotation of yours nerfed lol. From the looks of things the idea floating around is to throw the baby out with the bath water. A blanket nerf to combos will result in well everyone using your combo which is even more cookie cutter than what we have currently. Or it could result in a removal of the grace period and thats just terrible considering what ice, earth, mental and gadgets can do to negate any disruptions.

From that specific viewpoint not entirely. While Burning Determination is a longer cooldown, from a damage standpoint, it does not affect what Fire can potentially do as a Tank since Burning Determination's Power return is negated as a Tank and enhanced damage can be obtained in a different way. Your analogy would fit better if Fiery Weapon had a different cooldown in each stance but it does not.

In addition to what I mentioned giving Fan specifically a longer cooldown can also affect Weapon Mastery alternatives. While not a pressing concern presently it would be problematic to have to look at this problem again because Weapon Mastery alternates got looked into in the future (which may or may relate to the plan weapon tuning).

At the same time by doing that Light would be even more inflated as a battle Controller compared to every other Controller (and every other support role).

I see no reason why you can't clip Inspiration + Chompers/Spikequake into every infinite combo rotation. Feel free to state an exact rotation that can't apply this clip.

I want it nerfed too but I liked the blanket nerf idea xD I know some people that miss old school hl dps so having more button presses and clips would be fun for them even if its nowhere near the tap level as back then it would be better than tap tap hold hold hold tap tap (repeat for 20 minutes)

These are using the GGJr rotation (Gatling Gun Jr (short for JR1NC since he helped modify it))
max range: http://dcuolog.com/?log=c7377122&view=parser *got a 40k exact read, several 37k*
mid range: http://dcuolog.com/?log=9283985d&view=parser *got a 48900k read, #50kTheDream*
close range: http://dcuolog.com/?log=6478162a&view=parser *lower than mid range for some reason, close but still, really no reason to use*

There's a better JR1NC found, i'll get the reads for that now. All 3 of those logs are uploaded on my youtube as well for video footage.

The continuous combo AM was designed away from using chompers or inspiration, their extra damage already calculated in the strength of the combos. Its only possible to use them now thanks to the reduction in buildup time and the grace period. Take those away and you find clipping it less effective.

Well that's different from this intended AM. I love clipping as much as the next guy but perhaps instead of hijacking the AM from the continuous combos we could push for the clipping ability to hit as hard.

When atomic was on test Roomba discovered a superior form of clipping that surpassed the standard clip. The devs found a way to make his clip equal to the standard method in a way that suited both parties. I may not be smart enough to come up with the solution but I'm hopeful that the various methods light players discover can also be variations rather than superior methods.

In short I'm all for the return of clipping as a dps method but hopefully it will be equal to the continuous AM.

I wouldn't push for equal, slightly better if anything to compensate for the skill if it's the same hl rotation from wayyyy back xD Not like 20-30% like now though.

As for the AM vs clipping, 2 things would technically need to happen imo:
1. AM power regen needs to be changed to be granted at every ability cost during the duration of the pi. So say if I hit chompers and then hit fan I get power regen, and if I hit grasping hand from my tray afterward then I get power regen on top of that for that particular ability. As far as my knowledge goes, HL only gets power regen from that first ability use. If it's not changed to something like this that matches say how gadgets power regen works then even if clipping is equal/slightly better the power cost is too high. It'd be better to bring in another AM dps than to have a 2nd/3rd troll just to keep the clipping monster fed xD
2. The AM increased damage would have to apply to might damage as well and be triggered by 4 seconds of combos REGARDLESS and not just when the combo is chained.

Relentless precision would be replaced by escalating might hopefully.