Test Discussion GU 57: Light Mid-range Adjustments

Players don't like being pidgeon-holed into not being able to perform as well as other Dps simply because their power. While Ice may be simple, there are likely many players that like the idea of playing Ice, and shouldn't be punished simply because they like a certain power.

Kuroki's rotation is way less complicated than a lot of Celestial rotations. It's also harder than the standard HL range rotation but not by very much. HL has never been a 1234 power and shouldn't be.

I put the best segment of sustained rotations that I just did with him onto the analyzer and got a 29k AVERAGE at mid range over a spread from 21.7k to 41k. He's been using it with hours of practice. I'm upto a total of about 30 minutes.

Tunso has said many times they don't want powers overperforming coming out of Test. I agree with the idea of lets make the adjustments here and if Tunso overshoots on a retune of the damage we can address that before it goes live.

We already got our grace period and damage buff of some kind. I'm much more in favor of moving PP now LOL. So here's what I'm suggesting for the next round of changes:

1. Move INS up and or onto the Assault tree.
2. Recharge and INS will need to start the Power Regen. This would be analagous to Cold Snap and Ice Bash with Ice. Maybe make INS just a self buff?? like Ice Bash
3. Lets do some TESTING with a mid range damage reduction or consider this fine consider the risk/reward.
4. Get the melee level damage with range construct when less than 7m correct. If Ice can sit there so should we.

I love my Ice toon. While AG spam is simple, it is also deceptively simple. You can't stand just anywhere. You have to reposition yourself frequently to get the most out of it. Wintry Tempest and Avalanche make a great combo coming into melee range and CC often at the same time.

I'm Greenchain and I endorse the last line of your message. I'm not sure if you were coming from the Ice or HL perspective or just any power for that matter. You've got your fingerprints all over a few Guide sections. I can count on both hands the number of times in the last 2-3 months I've gotten a group invite to DPS as HL. I always put HL in any tell responding to an LFG request because I don't want to get in there and have someone gripe about the HL DPS. Not all Ice DPS are inherently good, the power set is but that doesn't make the player.

Kinda got off on an unintended rant. I think we're saying the same thing here right? We want, eventually, for any DPS power given same CR, roughly same SP, the oppurtunity to be equally effective in a Live group setting.

Can't do this rotation on ps , u can but its hard as well with controller

I did my parses with the PS controller, just plugged it into my laptop. The hard part is getting the muscle memory and timing of the MG clip right.

Hiding ram is hard haha

That is the hardest part. He also told me to not worry about chompers after the 1st rotation. Good advice on a sparring target but trying to do this Live I'm thinking at least every other full rotation.

On live is garbage

It is every other rotation, I was telling you that just so you could focus on hiding ram more xD If you can hide ram, that alone even without the pi's etc. will take you to 37-39k

Of course you can't do it on live live, the only reason you can do it is because on test server the AM damage doesn't drop off. You can't do a regular server rotation of this and get anywhere near the same damage.

I wanted to see exactly how difficult this is on live so I respec'd hit sparring target for about 10 minutes.
Put the clips on Square, Triangle & Circle with MG on X... the result EZ PEAZY although at first I was going too fast and not hitting combo. Compared to pre 36 HL this is cake

The hardest part for me was wanting to clip too early when INSP came off cooldown. I knew it was going to horrible numbers but wanted real life trial. I really only screwed up after getting countered a few times.
It wasn't hard at all and I haven't been HL in about 1.5 years.

What I did take away from it was even though your numbers are showing avg of 38k you will still spend a significant amount of time being countered or stunned. Even with a 3 second window your still only going to have maybe 60℅ (guessing) still staying in AM.

Again...it needs attention but it had better be on the very high side of the +/- simply because this WILL happen more than Ice Mental or Gadgets (I don't count Sorcery or Earth as midrange has yet to be done)
And by the very nature of our AM this does and will happen MUCH MUCH MORE.

Before someone tells me that it doesn't I have Sorcery and Ice toons at 151+ and lots of experience with Mental.

It was on the high side of the +- 30K before the last change last came. It was ~33k before the change which was +10% instead of +5%. After I added that minigun clip from the am not dropping, that shot it up to +20-30% xD

Again READ my post
I watched your vids and saw 36-38k with spikes up to 42 or close. We are not dealing with spikes high or low the avg is what the Devs are looking for. The spikes above the norm were all present for Ice Mental Gadgets (and they still buffed that one?) Sorcery and Earth

The difference was they were not nearly as high on average numbers. So what we are left with is YES it is hitting way too hard (said that in my last 2 ). BUT here's the key ? How much time or better yet how much more % are we being countered? Until they know the answer which is significantly higher than those other powers how to we balance this? Key word is balance

Cause if you take and put HL on even ground with those other powers IT WILL underperform due the nature of its AM and susceptibility to blocking adds. Keep in .mind you are really just doing a modified version of the AM that was known and ran by Kaiser when this first came out....its nothing new (not being rude) just being brought to light becuase of the AM still staying active.

Just remember... A power can be great on a sparring target.. But not so good in a run. Think of adds, bosses, interruptions, picks up and etc

Kumori for the rotation fan also gives power back

How would the range loadout be more susceptible to blocking adds? Plus with the 3 sec grace period and a possible PP rearrange you'd have access and the ability to use light barrier to immune to the CC effects.

A bunch of you guys seem to be blinded by your anger that HL was in the state that it was and its making you ignore the actual test changes. The setup time and damage loss from being interrupted has been addressed. Now it's at a point of adjusting damage so that its balanced with others not outright outperforming every power.

Yes it's not a big deal if HL is at that +5% percent benchmark. It's not ok for it to be 10%-15% above.

The average wasn't a spike to 40k. He got 20-40k because he hadn't perfected the rotation. The average is 40K. 38 straight reads (tunso requires 30 good reads, i did 38 and kept everything) 39449.07895 average. check the math yourself.

Screenshots of the reads:




video to see it live

The AM damage is kept after the last change, the only time you would lose it is if you pick someone up, and every power loses their damage at that point and has to start over besides ice. Interrupts are no longer a factor after the 3 second grace period was added.

Either you are terrible at reading or English is not your native language... Seriously man did you see where I mentioned it IS hitting WAY too hard....?

My point is after once in AM everything is susceptible to counter. I don't want HL to be OP so not sure where the Anger comes from. I want it on par and thats it....and after the crap job they did last time maybe we can get it right?

If.it does work with 3 second window than adjust it down, but even if the AM stays up every counter takes us out of DPS. Last time I checked thats still what's gonna happen more in HL than any other power

Yep, personally I use grasping hand just because I'm used to it from pvp if I need power regen. Minigun doesn't give the power regen but it gives you access to the ram the fastest out of the combos which is the point of doing the clip.