Test Discussion GU 103: Tank Balance

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Batuba, Mar 20, 2020.

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  1. L T Devoted Player

    Pretty sure a complete supercharge overhaul is outside the scope of GU103.

    That having been said, it would be a huge improvement to tanks if Envelope, Energize, Reignition, and Hibernation were all changed to 2500 cost supercharges. Decrease the heal from each one appropriately. Yes I know there's a movement supercharge (except for flight) and pheromone bloom (which looks pretty awful), but why have supercharges that nobody wants to ever use?
    • Like x 1
  2. L T Devoted Player

    14 seconds vs 12 definitely does make it easier to keep your aura going. I don't notice the extra crowd control resistance at all though. Comparing the same fights as Atomic, Earth, or Fire:
    • I don't even notice the CC as Fire, because backdraft is usable while controlled, and the changes to power mean I'm never so low I can't break out. If I equipped empowered channeling for absorb heat the situation would be even better.
    • As Earth I barely notice CC, because even when I'm stunned or knocked around Brick picks up the slack.
    • As Atomic I don't seem to be crowd controlled any less than as Earth or Fire, but I notice every single time because it kills my self-heals. Pushes, pulls, and stuns are still interrupting my combos consistently.
  3. Mr.W Committed Player

    Hmmmm, if the increase in atomic's cc resistance is still lacking even after the buff, perhaps the next most appropriate step would be to to change the empowered channeling tac mod to allow atom splitter & its combos to benefit from it.
  4. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Atomic doesn't really need anything outside of what has already been balanced besides the adjustment to Density's BSM but that has already been brought up by myself and others. Atomic with the aura active now has greater control resistance than what a breakout trinket provides as a permanent buff, also the aura lasts longer which gives more freedom in case you are in an instance where you have to block or not able to continue to combo. Most of Atomic's problems lie with breakout profiles which isn't a atomic problem but a gamewide problem.

    If they were changed to 2500 cost the supercharges themselves would drastically have to be adjusted. Envelope and Hibernation are by the widest possible margin the strongest damage absorption power in the entire game, it's just with the shield penetration mechanics its usefulness is lower compared to phase dodge.
  5. DCspawn87 Well-Known Player

    I remember when Fire had amazing self heals. Then the PvP community happened. I think we are all smart enough to see where I'm going with this. Happy testing good people.
    • Like x 1
  6. vicezx New Player

    Is fire that squishy though? because today, and note that this is in Live, not test. i saw a fire tanking the Golem at thanagar all by himself and he never got his health below 80%., i was able to see his gear and he was 294 with symbol (200), manacles (200), and gemini (180). But the thing was that he was barely recieving any damage at all from the golem.
  7. Templeton Active Player

    About Atomic, the 35% control resistance totally goes unnoticed. A short immunity to control effects for few seconds after aura renewal would totally be appreciated. As an example, renew aura as soon as a one shot mechanic that requires blocking to survive is about to happen. Instead of using the breakout trinket (or in some cases sc that grants immunity) you just renew the aura to gain that x seconds CC immunity to prevent block breaks. I know this means you could potentially be immune the whole time just by spamming combos, but it's been a while since the bosses started to hit hard enough to make a tank kite or care to do the counters on the bosses. So this immunity for say it... 2-3sec? would truly help without breaking the game.


    OR


    Quark-Gluon Aura should be able to absorb 25% damage while also blocking. Atomic is based on dominance so the health is low. So goes for Earth and Ice, but while Earth could benefit from strongest tank shield in the game Gemstone Shield, and Ice with its 2nd
    strongest tank shield Winter Ward. Atomic stays at the mercy of Density and the healer during the time it has to block.


    OR


    By popular demand which I totally agree with, Density's BSM increased. That or made similar to Fire's new Immolation. Something like: double its life but only mitigate 25% damage (+25% absortion from aura). A 50% damage reduction while Density and Aura are up, sounds fair.


    Thank you for the 14 seconds on aura, it really is helpful for fights that require more countering than combos, just as it was mentioned above. Please consider looking at these suggestions.
  8. Cyro Committed Player

    I will admit my familiarity with ice is limited but i did check ice elemental and i didnt see anything about buffing shields in the player effects menu increased defense yes but not increased shield strength. My goal with bringing this up was to at the very least shine a light on sc that as far as im aware no one uses. Its been awhile since prestats but i always remember reigition being 50% of course my memory could betray me but even at 25% why would i choose a burst heal when i can go for the meta which is shields and have the mm sc. As for eternal flame its a sc version of burning det with every strike healing you, i would say its the most balanced of any of the sc i listed but with Eog and scrap a sc that i can use everytime its off cooldown is better than a sc i can use every now and again
  9. Psyfur Well-Known Player

    That fire tank you saw was relying heavily on shields and healing as a secondary measure. It’s dubbed the poor man’s ice tank. It’s effective, but goes against the point of being a fire tank.
    • Like x 3
  10. Juggurnaut Level 30

    That’s incorrect. I run fire on live right now and have no issues. I also don’t run hardlight shield like some in this thread were saying is mandatory. My current fire loadout consists of

    Backdraft
    Absorb heat
    Immolation
    Stoke flames
    Pull
    Reignition (sometimes replacing for perfect poise)

    I think those that have trouble with fire are not using absorb heat. You must use absorb heat to be a solid fire tank. And I can solo the golem out in open world as well. This is how I complete it. Usually when someone watches you not die for long enough, they will jump in to help.

    If anything, the changes fire is getting are already way better than what’s on live, they’re not going to increase the heals as well. It doesn’t need it. You just need to use absorb heat more. As much as absorb heat heals you, it’s almost like a using a shield.
  11. Batuba Developer

    I'm looking at integrating a QoL change for Ice. It won't be available for testing until the build after the one going out today.
    • Ice Armor - Grants 35 % defense while active (nothing has changed here). When you take damage that is not absorbed by shields, reduce the cooldown of Shattered Restraints by 1 second (1 second internal CD). Tank Role only.
    This should help Ice tanks get a shield back quickly (albeit a weaker shield) when in high risk situations and all their other shields options are spent. This comes with the added benefit of bringing a little more group utility with CC immunity that comes with Shattered Restraints.
    • Like x 7
  12. The Anxient Loyal Player

    Anything planned for atomic? Seems like we're adding improvements to powers are already stronger than Atomic.
  13. Batuba Developer

    Atomic, at least on paper, is the strongest tank in the game as far as raw mitigation. Their biggest downfall was when their aura would fall and they became vulnerable. Ice is a middle of the pack tank when it comes to elite content. For the most part, an Ice tank that is doing normal content won't benefit as much from this newest change as their shields will last them most of the encounter. The players that will most benefit are those that do elite content to where their shields go down very fast and they are left vulnerable for extended periods of time.
    • Like x 2
  14. The Anxient Loyal Player

    Paper and practice are very different. Atomic has to remain the most active to maintain it's mitigation and healing making it the worst to kite. If atomic were as strong as it looks you wouldn't see everyone flocking to earth rage and to a lesser extent ice. The atomic tanks you do see running elite content are just loading up on shields and basically playing it like ice. There's a major disconnect between design and implementation right now.
    • Like x 4
  15. Cyro Committed Player

    Any possible changes to fire healing? Right now some of fires heals are very strong yet others like burning det are on the weaker side any chance some of these can be buffed a bit?
  16. The Anxient Loyal Player

    You say it's easy but then say the heals and density are lacking. Which is it?
    • Like x 2
  17. Psyfur Well-Known Player

    Vicezx said that the tank’s health didn’t drop below 80%, which would require more mitigation than what immolation can provide. But if you were the fire tank that Vicezx was referring to, then I stand corrected.
  18. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    I'm guessing you are one of the atomic tanks running atom splitter and thermochemical explosion and not realizing what it's actually doing. Atomic can easily fit HLS into their rotation as you only need atomic reorganization and thermochemical explosion, any tank using atom splitter is the one without faith in themselves.
  19. Juggurnaut Level 30

    You can tank perfectly fine with atom splitter and thermonuclear explosion. The heals are lacking if you’re not using 2 combos to rotate between. You have to choose if you’re going to run two combos or multiple shields. Either is fine. But in my opinion 2 combos is more fun. Atomic tends to make your hands hurt but Batuba is right, It’s one of the stronger tanks for elite content. Density is a little weak but it’s really not that bad.
  20. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    "Fine" and "Optimal" are two different definitions though, his specific statement was about HLS and either he's running neutrino blast which is equally as pointless as atom splitter and the point of running HLS, Density and your choice of SC is to supplement when your heals don't provide enough back. 2 combos may be "fun" as you say but with breakout profiles the way they are its quite detrimental. Even Fire before these changes was "fine" for all content, it just wasn't the best it could be.
    • Like x 1
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