Give Us Hard Raids....

But I am not running with 2 Healers....wait what?

This is what was said in a group I formed earlier today in Artifacts and the Tank kept asking why 2 healers.

What is it with player's these days they are so good they are not scrubs yet when trying to run a T6 raid they need to stack a group with DPS's to increase burn time?

With fewer Dps's there number will not be split so even higher numbers, so....

I wouldn't mind a the challenge but to many will just circumvent the difficulty and respond like the Tank and Dps's in my run did.

Note: Once the group dissolved down to four members we opened the instance and beat the last boss at 50+min on the scorecard final time.
Original Group

1 Tank
2 Healers
2 Trolls
3 Dps's (2 were league mates)

Original 4 remaining

1 Troll (me)
1 Healer
2 Dps's (of which 1 switched to healer with another alt)

After opening instance we picked up 1 Tank and 3 Dps's of which 1 was out after the artifact was active(seems some don't get it damages you while standing in it, lol.

I agree with him.

I don't see the point in running 2 heals if it isnt necessary. This content is too easy to run with 2, especially with how high Resto can get. Given the choice of running 2 healers or 1 in this content, I'll take 1 healer 10x out of 10 without even a second thought.

If difficult raids actually come out and force 2 healers then I'm game. Count me in. But this stuff? No way. The burn takes long enough with 4 DPS's, taking 1 away makes it unnecessarily long.

They will make the content in accordance to how we run the content.

Also I must have failed to mention that the OG group fell apart at the last boss, I thought that was clear.

Since it is already to easy there should have been no wipes with the OG group but nope we wiped twice.

Surely the experience members in the run knew were they placement was and about the boom tubes.

The Tank would remind the group and to no avail we wiped, smh.

These raids by far are not that easy but with the right type of gear a breeze so I can see you point once in a complete set of gear but when multiple members in the group are 100 better to stack the group because of burn time would decrease with less members.

Better yet just stick to running in full 94 gear and not waist time with making it difficulty by running with 100 cr players from time to time just with only 1.

Noted.

You don't need "harder" raids for a challenge, just que up for one of the T6 raids and you'll see what I'm talking about, I'm sure you'll have all the challenge you can ever ask for....LOL

Have you looked at the Restoration on healer gear? Have you?

It comes down to it, if the devs want for us to have a perfect group, they need to make content that requires it.

Multiple bosses that will kill one tank will yield 2 tanks.
Lots of little hits (no one shots) that will kill anyone if there is no constant on your toes heals will yield 2 healers.
Objective NPCs that can't be tanked, but controlled will yield 2 controllers. (Think DLC9 content and not just last room AnB.)

These are examples, there are other ways.

The devs say they balance around a perfect group to see if you can complete the content, the problem is, you can complete it w/ an unbalanced group too.

"I want harder raids and alerts and duos. I want harder content."

Try running content outside your comfort zone. Better yet, stop saying "I want harder raids and alerts" only to complain how difficult they are when new stuff is released and saying that the bosses are too hard and needs to be nerfed. The more players keep asking for harder content only means you've been practicing (or getting carried) that same instances over and over again with people who are over geared, over powered, over buffed, over confident, and have an ego a mile wide.

I'll guarantee you, when the next DLC 12 and 13 comes out, folks will be complaining that content is too hard.

The title contradicts my topic.

If players truly wanted a challenge they will except any challenge.

Before a Dps (that spoke before he put up the excuse from instance left)his words were that maybe the Healer (1 had like 5000+ resto) should run the other content so then they can solo.

I did not instruct the healer to do such a thing instead because that player grinded there way to 102 I formed a group of which everybody was in role with only 1 player(the Tank) questioning the group make up.

I then qued up the Raid in which everybody qued.

In the end my league mate will do just that seeing as the community really like for players to over gear for content as we really push ourselves to actually play with a wide range of players and not just with in the league, that and only like 5 league members were on plus it is fun to meet new players.

Now being there were 4 randoms in the group before we went in the instance made it a challenge for the healer who actually did pretty good. (with low resto couldn't solo tried that and it just didn't work)

They also look at how the community run the content as well.

Nexus and Dox great examples.

Three Troll runs solo healers and 1 Tank runs.

A very short run with 2 Tanks not once did I ever see 2 Healers.

Which lead to even more health on bosses when they came out with the next set of raids.

Yeah they have a lot they can do but so do we.

I disagree entirely. They make content based on the skill level of the playerbase, not to cater to a 1-1-1/2-4/5 setup. We choose to run that way.

If you guys wiped enough and split at the last boss, then I'm sorry to say, the group wasnt very good. This content is the easiest we've ever gotten in a DLC. Anything outside of Lockdown should be completed no issues unless you're trying for feats.

Bingo.

I'm not running 2 healers if 1 does the job. The healers in the past 5 DLCs have only had 1 primary focus, and that's to keep the tank alive, because anything that goes towards the group is a 1 shot and can't be healed through OR is damage that poses no threat. I'm not running 2 or 3 controllers because nobody uses much power anymore and there is nothing to CC. I'm not running 2 tanks because there's nothing a solo tank cant handle.

If at all possible, I'm GOING to stack DPS. No reason to drag out content unnecessarily.

Hence the second healer.

I guess we were good with the extra burner because we ended up beating it with 4 Dps's minus the players that shared your view, so....

The first part to what you said we are in disagreement because I feel as though we can beat anything they put in front of us and we don't have to stack the group for faster burn which is easy mode to me we just have different opinions nothing more.

The extra health is so we don't just crush the content in 5 mins. do to the extra burn, and by what my point in my opinion is stacked as is.

Seems it is a matter of opinion which gives neither of us any thing to say we are factual.

Oh and this right here your right the community definitely does this they will not do any of those things because "because anything that goes towards the group is a 1 shot and can't be healed through" which most just jump right up there with the Tank, "is damage that poses no threat" skipping adds or portion of content.

"I'm not running 2 or 3 controllers because nobody uses much power anymore and there is nothing to CC" Troll's need to learn to Control and beat the content every time with 2 controllers in group but I have soloed content as well doesn't change much there.

And oh yeah, "The healers in the past 5 DLCs have only had 1 primary focus", eh huh healers always had a primary focus to heal it is there Healer role like Damage Per Sec or Controlling and Tank is Tanking.

I don't want hard content so much as I'd like to see some variation among the challenges presented. By variation I mean:

Varied objectives, and particularly perhaps a step back from the formula of every instance needing a final boss.

• Perhaps an instance where the boss is the first thing you fight, and the rest of the instance is dedicated to getting together the stuff needed to fix whatever the boss was there to wreck. Basically something along the lines of Boss fight followed by a timed scavenger hunt, possibly with a time limit(Like you have five minutes to get the parts to fix the control panel of the doomsday device to stop it from self destructing/going off.(Villains are trying to keep it intact so they can use it, heroes need to shut it off to save the world)
• I also wouldn't mind an instance where you have to escape from jail or some other prison escape scenario... (Perhaps a revamp of strikers?)
• Maybe even make a new instance that can be cleared without killing a single enemy...(You get a feat for doing so, but it's much easier just to burn everything than it is to try to sneak around it.)
• Mix in some poison head-crab type enemies(Basically a suicide enemy that takes their victim down to 1hp if they manage to get off a hit.)

Vault of Doom: Basically a new vault, perhaps devised by Darksied or some other villain, or perhaps it's simply the War World, or the Necropolous or whatever. It's a vault run with the following tweaks.

1. It's much bigger than the traditional vault and designed to be something of a maze, a core aspect of the game-play being exploration.
2. The loot chests are scattered randomly throughout this vault, you have to find them if you want to claim what's inside.
3. The random mayhem can kill you this time around, and there might even be adds or a "minotaur" type boss wandering around.(if there is a boss it's one that re-spawns even if defeated and doesn't drop anything that a random add wouldn't.)
4. You get KOed and nobody rallies you, you're booted from the instance and can't come back without a vault ticket.(Or until it resets)
5. It's a group vault in case four didn't make it clear. The question of course is: Can your team survive long enough to find all the loot?(And of course I'd say everyone has to roll on what loot they find.)
6. The loot table for this vault should be good enough to entice players into the vault.(And provided the group has figured out what the traps look like, they should be able to survive long enough to find at least one chest.)

Can only speak for myself but... I'm not nearly fully geared as healer and i got like 7,3kresto I just don't need a second healer in group. I struggle to not fall asleep whil healing as is, the raids are designed in such a way that outside of maybe lockdown and a few select places where you fight bombardier adds the group doesn't take damage at all except for the tank, and they're so strong this days they barely need any heals themselves, add WM to the equation where you always have an abudance of power to heal when needed and voila.. Nvm 7k+, 4-5k resto is still more then enough to solo heal anything in the game.. I really can't blame anyone for taking another dps instead. Now that solo trolling crap has to stop Thats just wrong.. I'd rather have power then cary another crappy dps who does barely 20% of my damage

One of the best things about this game is the freedom to run pretty much whatever setup your group agrees too. You have every right to run 2 healers just as I have every right to run 1. There is no "perfect setup" that the devs need to cater content towards... You run your way and I will run mine. If you want 2 healers and/or 2 trolls then make your own group.

Well the 5k resto didn't work for us and those that were with me understood that the rest only knew it would be there first time in Artifact and they didn't ask about there experience either.

It is not mandatory to run it that way nor should it be.

Like a few that shouted and joined then left perfectly understandable, that is not what they are looking for, I get that no harm done, but to go thru a whole raid only failing at the last boss twice with 2 healers and leaving which to be honest, I didn't care, if I was looking to just beat it and move on then I would have made the group differently with the extra dps to begin with because my opinion is it is easier that way less time for silly player errors or becoming lazy because everything dies faster even with the dps only doing "20% of the my damage" to quote you (if it were me dpsing well I would have been in a solo no shame in my game I am not good at dpsing so I don't in content unless in a league run so others could troll).

WM helps but the fact that my vit is lower than a battery but above 3500 means I could solo but I don't like to and I initially pulled in a 2nd Troll from LFG who left at the 2nd wipe (last boss).

I ended up solo Trolling the last boss due to my 3 other league mates requesting that I do so just to get it done so we could add the extra burner to do just that.

That's the thing about freedom in terms of the player-base. We have the ability to run however we want; some of us don't want to either take the initiative and try out running it a certain way that is not the norm or or want the Devs to change it so that is pushed upon others so they have to change. Trust me, I'm one who always think the balanced group in alerts and raids shows a great deal about 'player skill' and teamwork among our player-base, but if groups think they can go into that content with 5 DPS and whatnot, more power to you. Now, if you're walking around with all T6 gear from the new DLC and running content with a crew wearing all that gear as well, your credibility to discuss 'how easy' content is takes a big hit. Not to mention, running that content to death to get said gear also knocks that credibility down some as well.

Of course, this is my opinion, but it doesn't take much to figure out the more gear you have, and the more familiar you are will the content, the less 'challenge' the content gets. Sure, what I'm saying is not the only reason, but I'm pretty sure it's one of the biggest contributors.

balanced group doesn't show anything about "player skill' or "teamwork" to me.. Situational awareness is how I grade performance. And tbh I have been in alot more fail groups when i pug with said "balanced" group than with "non-traditional" groups. If and when I pug I don't mind any setup but pugging is a painful process wich I choose to get over with asap

I like a mix of difficulties from multiple raids. Prime was much harder than gates. Dox was much harder than Nex. Just be careful what you wish for. Too much difficult content will kill a server. EU PC is already on its last legs.

That's just the thing tho, gear and stats dont equal skill, a leaugemate solohealed all the new raids with 4,5k resto and 40 sp's.... I just cant wrap my head around where all those "horibad player" storries come from.. Even the worst pugs on eupc have little to no difficulty with arti and necro and some but managable difficulties with lockdown.

Balanced groups, in my opinion, have the potential to show great teamwork and skill of all roles, not just relying on one role to dominate the instance. If two tanks working together to keep bosses and 'underlings' separate in a raid, as an example, doesn't promote teamwork, I don't know what to tell you.

I don't really focus on PUG groups to gauge difficulty of content mostly because of lack of familiarity between players. PUG groups are a random group of players, so it's more than likely that those will fail more than a group of friends and leaguemates, unless they're over-geared, which will over-compensate 'player skill' and 'teamwork'. So honestly, PUGs are just going to be difficult by nature at the beginning.

Besides, the only balanced groups I've seen have been from the queue, and for the most part, I've been lucky to get through them intact.

Like I said before, lots of factors to consider, and they do affect how we can fairly view content as being 'easy' or 'difficult'.