Fix the group making for the love of God

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Bomb, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. Bomb New Player

    Sorry if my response appeared hostile, but I find it kind of tedious when people offer 'solutions', which I'm well aware of and have considered when I made the original point.

    Your suggestion implied either that I was unaware of how typing works on a console, or that I was unaware that if I choose I can splash out 30 or 40 quid on a keypad for my ps4.

    Sorry, but the phrase 'no **** sherlock' comes to mind. Same with people suggesting I use LFG when my problem is with automated matchmaking.

    Thanks for trying to offer a solution, but if you take it as a given that I know what I'm complaining about and am aware of the possible work arounds to it, your solutions or comments will probably be closer to the mark and come across as much less patronising.
  2. DivineSire Dedicated Player

    So your saying that typing "need healer for oly" in lfg is a hassle (even if you have to wait for the right role) but disbanding or wiping multiple times only to get frustrated then come here to log in to type a thread about it is somehow less of a hassle?

    Don't know what system your using but on ps3 (and i'll assume ps4) when you type that in the virtual keyboard it saves the words so next time you do it, it will preload the words in order for you as you type them. Worst case is that you'll have choose them in the window on right.
  3. Tsavorentless Dedicated Player

    also if u tlk to people one person could vote no so then u have 2 kicks cuz that person didn't vote yes.

    I think that works but u dont wnna vote no n then have evryone vote no n then ur first boot dont even work
  4. Bomb New Player

    I'm on here because server went down and I haven't had the free time to do any content, without it being interrupted by other things. It wasn't some reactionary post, but a thought I've had for several years but never bothered signing up to the forums to post about because frankly I had better things to do.

    I'm saying that manually typing 'need healer' 1000x (whether I'm using auto correct or not) while waiting in a closed group is more hassle than opening a group to matchmaking and ticking a box saying open to 'healer'.

    LFG is a manual way of doing that, but I'm saying they should automate the process, so their automated group making is actually fit for purpose.

    That's the whole point of having automatic group making... To simplify the process. Automatically putting players into losing groups 9 out of 10 times on top tier raids suggests the automated feature isn't fit for purpose, because the whole point of automating the process is to make life easier, not harder.
  5. Bomb New Player

    That gives you a total of 3 kicks from a group of 8(5 have to vote yes for kick to work). Like I said, there were over 50 players on our olympus e scoreboard by the time we had reached Zeus, so kicking doesn't really get you very far when it can take 5 or 6 or more tries to get the role you want. More often than not, you will get 5 DPSers in a row if you try to go down the kicking route, while still using random matchmaking.
  6. Emoney Dedicated Player

    If you have role optional turned off, the UI will always try to find the role you are missing when someone leaves. If thats not good enough, be sure to vote no to reopen, then invite whoever you want.
  7. krytine Loyal Player

    Sorry was at work.
    What i was saying is rid you notice the symbols next to each persons name. I have found people mainly dps to que fast will que as both roles but will only dps. So look at thier names if you see a second emblem next to it it means they say they will do either role and not dps so ask that one to switch but personally i think there should be a limit to how many dps can be in a raid. All others would be locked from dps until one of the others switches out of dps
  8. 12AngelOfLife21 Loyal Player

    Uh, LFG lol.
  9. SparkmanX Committed Player

    I have been in the same situation as OP describes. Generally, when this type of thread comes out, the answers they receive are: "use LFG" as the infallible miracle ointment on all problems". The point is that these players use the excuse of the LFG to evade the real problem of in this game: the Queue system are a real disaster.

    It is unforgivable that since 2011 the devs have not been able to solve this problem and we are already in 2017. The reason devs have not paid attention to the useless system of Queue is precisely because many players want to show that There is no problem since anyone can use the LFG, but THAT IS NOT THE POINT. What is being talked about here is that Queue is a viable alternative in the system but that at the moment it remains a mechanism with many problems because they have not made the necessary adjustments.

    I am 100% agree that someone has to rattle the cat ("Poner la cola al gato" in my country) once and for all. They must fix the Queue system

    - By the way, in my language Queue means cola :confused::confused::confused:??? . I use this word to refer to the mechanism in which you enter an instance through the menu "on duty" and the game chooses with those who are going to play based on the people who have selected that they want to play that same instance.
    • Like x 1
  10. Emoney Dedicated Player

    I disagree, the Q system we have works. Most players dont even know about the role optional setting. It is on by default, which means its first come first serve, reguardless of role.

    For older content, I keep it on, since 4 dpss can generally do anything t5 and below. For t6-t8, turn the setting off. You will get one of each role, but not necessarily players willing to switch. That is why the system doesnt work sometimes, because of players, not the UI.
    For raids, the UI will look for one tank one troll one healer, then first come first serve.
    Honestly though, the reason everyone says use LFG, because it works lol, it just takes a lil time and effort. If you cant make that effort, than I dont know what to say.....refusing to use the options provided to you, doesnt mean the system is bad.
  11. Emoney Dedicated Player

    Your system will fail the same way though. Players Q as both roles for my experience it seems about 75% of them dont plan on, or are incapable of doing one of the roles. Just because you have an inv healer option, doesnt change the fact youll most likely get a dps who doesnt heal, or cant. Thats why the LFG option works best, because players shout the role(s) they want to play as.

    Ive played for six years, on ps3 to ps4 now, I dont use a keyboard and have no problems using LFG, except for those who exclude certain powers/sp.
    • Like x 1
  12. DeFrost Active Player

    In practice this would be very useful.
    If you needed a certain role and could open the queue to only that role it would help find the correct balance for groups and if you could queue looking for a certain balance that would be better.

    Using LFG is not the answer to everything, and form your own group isn't helpful suggestion.
    If you are in an instance and need a certain role being able to find one easy would be great.

    The problem would be the player base.
    If you tried opening the queue to specific role and others in group wanted to open to all roles how would it work?
    They would need some type of vote that needs a certain number of players to agree. I see this causing a lot of issues in groups.

    The big issue is there are a lot of players who aren't skilled at playing their role or queue from instances they shouldn't. LFG also fails here as PM me CR/SP is a common shout but very few players actually check the census to see what their stats actually are. Plus there is no current measure of skill, players with both high and low sp can be good or bad.

    LFG is full of so much junk finding the right player you need can be hard:
    1, Gold sellers (I've hit max on ignore list more then once)
    2, selling this item/aura (just use trade chat)
    3, need 2 dps for paradox wave pm me CR/SP fast run good group (this from a dps who was cr 186 at that cr if you can't solo paradox wave in under 2 minutes you suck)
    4, people putting cr/sp limits on content because they want to be carried.
    5, people constantly shouting role here for raids when no one is shouting for that raid, instead of trying to make their own group.
    6, getting a full group is a pain. If you are starting a group very few want to join but if you only have one spot left many want to join.
    7, when you have a full group it can take forever for all the group members to ready up.
    8, people sending tells for the wrong raid. I've been shouting for normal version why when I queue it do you question why its not elite.
    9, only one can invite to group. Passed lead a few times so other player could invite friend but then had to leave and reform as they eitherwouldn't pass lead back or queue us up for the content.

    being able to open instances to specific roles would prevent a lot of issues and is a lot better then LFG.
    • Like x 1
  13. Bomb New Player

    Thanks for the tip, but how does that work when groups contain 7 people? Is it majority rules, i.e. 4 of 7 need role optional off, or is it overriding, i.e. if I have it on, then the other 6 players can have it off and it still affects the group?

    Sadly it doesn't solve the problem for top tier elite raids, because often you 'need' (want) more than 1 person in a particular support role. 2 Tanks for boss/ads is a common one, or 2 healers is another quite common setup for t8e. It's not that you can't win without these setups, but they can make life so much easier if the group is having a tough time. Of course we can always manually invite, but that defeats the point of the thread about fixing automated match-making to a usable state (why have it at all if it doesn't do it's job properly).

    No worries and thanks for getting back to me. Yeah I know about this already and am often having to call people out about queuing for a role they don't have gear for. Didn't realise it was called QI is all.

    Personally I'm not so sure about a DPS limit in general, mainly because it's nice to have the freedom to set up your team however you think will be most effective (and on lower tier content it would just be a pain!).

    I just think it makes no sense that you vote to invite players to the instance with no clue whether they will meet the groups needs or not.

    Even with matchmaking closed, I'm constantly agreeing to invite people to raids (invited by teammates) only to find out they're not the role we needed and somebody just invited them because they know they're a good dps and are hoping you will all kick somebody else so they can stay and you can find the role you actually wanted.

    That's why I think either a vote on the player joining when you can see their role/CR, or an option to invite only people playing a specific role is really going to be the most direct way to address the problem.
  14. Emoney Dedicated Player

    Its based off the leader. For example, I have it turned off.....I invite three dpss and try to que. If I am the first dps to ready up....the other 3 cannot choose dps. Same as inside an instance, if we lose someone, and my name is yellow (leader) it will search based on my setting.
    • Like x 1
  15. Bomb New Player

    I think the thing here is that you call people out who do this.

    It used to happen a lot more than it does nowadays and although you get the odd one or 2, most people who que as a tank on t8e raids will in fact be a tank. More often than not, you get it the other way round, where DPSers suddenly reveal they actually are a 188 healer as well, but just didn't include it in the qi, because their SP are geared towards DPS.

    I'm a 187 troll for example, but I only ever que as DPS, because I know I've not sunk enough SP into it to make me very good on the kind of content I'm wanting to run. If we desperately need a troll however, I will switch over if we're out of alternatives. I've seen a lot of players like this, because queuing for the wrong role is a sure way to get yourself kicked if that role is suddenly needed, or you turn out to be not all that great at it.
  16. Bomb New Player

    Ahh so this only works for LFG/manually set up groups then, unless there are already a few of us grouped and searching for extra players through random?
  17. Emoney Dedicated Player

    Well, yes and no. It works like that in both of those senarios...but if you are solo blind Qing, it still goes by your setting.
    After you get in, the UI will pick a leader, someone will get that yellow name. You can always ask for the lead before you open it to find a replacement.
    • Like x 1
  18. Emoney Dedicated Player

    You can try to call the people out, but most wont care, are too stubborn to leave....and many of them have no idea what youre even trying to say.

    I Qd into BN the other was a great setup, except, the healer was in dps stance. I sent him tells explaining that he was the chosen healer, and even though someone left, the UI sees him as the healer and will not grab another unless thats all that is in line for Q. He refused to leave, and we had to disband.
  19. Bomb New Player

    Could nobody have voted to kick him?

    This is exactly the kind of situation that I want to avoid with my suggestion. When the person left, you could select to open invite to healers only and problem solved.

    Ultimately I think most people could be trusted to not game the system in that way, because it would be that much more important for them not to lie, when their specific role has been chosen as the one that's needed by the team.

    It gives the whole team an incentive to vote to kick if they refuse to do it and the chances are, even if they stay the team won't be able to win because they don't have the role they needed from the invite.

    If you wanted to think of it as a problem of game mechanics vs actual usage, could a possible fix be to actually measure both CR levels of a player?

    So their DPS and their support ability would both have a CR, much like how you have a pvp and pve CR.

    That way, you would only be able to que for a support role in a t8e raid if you had the necessary CR in your support gear. That way, you would have to have gear for a 178 healer as a minimum req for queuing as a healer in a T8e raid with a min CR of 178.

    Depending on what role you had active, the other roles gear would provide 0 cr towards your cr level, much like how I would be ranked level 0 in pvp, even if I was wearing top tier pve gear.

    Personally I think a simpler solution would be to reduce the ridiculous kick limits though!
  20. DivineSire Dedicated Player

    Just to make it clear my "issue" with what your saying is not what your requesting but the fact that it's not what the thread title is saying. If the title had said "more options to que" or something along those lines ok no prob but your saying it's "broken" which it isn't. Might not be the best or most efficient but it's not "broken".

    Maybe you don't understand that automatic group making already exists it's what queing up is, and by turning off role optional your setting the parameters to invite the role you may need. Your problem seems to be more hinged on the fact that people can que up as both roles but for whatever reason can't or won't switch.

    About that last paragraph.......hmmmmm hehe even if you could just check a box for a healer doesn't mean you'll be guaranteed a top level healer, that's not the automations fault it's your issue because you want something specific which is why you use the lfg/friends list to find the specific one you want.