Fix lower end group content GOD MODE

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I currently have 6 characters with the highest at 252CR, and have done all the game content so far on one toon or the other.
I've played the game off and on since launch, and being the GOD in the Alert is no fun either.

I play minecraft with my kids and insist we play in survival mode or it's boring. Older content is boring because there is no challenge and a complete waste of time as such. Earning a feat in God Mode is also unearned, so why have them. Killing Bane with one hit in the Lighthouse is stupid power leveling and story telling, as he should feel like a challenge no matter the circumstance.

Currently, if I get in a duo with a low CR player, I take some gear off so that I am in their range. More often than not, lower CR players will just leave the instance due to the GOD character ruining the experience, which could likely be their first time in. Many players would rather their personal gaming experience not be RUINED by a seasoned player that likes the cheat mode. The only player that thanks for the feat are those other long term players leveling an alt.

The post was to improve group content and remove the reward cap as well.

If they don't want to fix the game content, cap higher CR players from getting in ... PERIOD.

Not at all, I've played since launch, but leave for a year or so and come back to see what's new.

The point I made is uncomplicated and valid.

Why do the Devs level the Event content now? Because a level 10 player couldn't possible enjoy the content if their personal contribution was worthless in the light of a level 241 character's contribution. They would be instantly killed or be forced to watch on the sidelines out of harms way, thus creating a poor gaming experience.

It's surprising how many negative views there are on fixing an obvious flaw to basic gaming principles. Removing the challenge, removes the game.

Why not play CHESS with 1st graders to make you feel powerful? Same thing.

I just want to ask. When they gave out the 100, 170 or 210 CR advances, did you buy any of the freebie feats on your other toons? 1000 treasure boxes or 20K in exobytes? Other feats like Toyman or salvage count feats? How about the 500 CC bounties? Did you run them with a group of 4-8 people as intended at CR 70, or did you get through them later as most did when you could solo or at worst hunt them as a duo? How about Starro/DD/GR/Hulk count feats? Did you knock them out with a group of 8, or did you jump in when you saw someone shouting about a 'spam' phase where 50 people were working on count and they were burning down in 1-2 minutes? I'm not saying either way is wrong, just looking for your opinion of that behavior. Unearned cheating, or not?

I just want to see how you are classifying all these other 'unearned' things, or is it just where you have to queue up that it's an issue? If it's only applied to the queue up runs, lets fix the queuing system so the noobs or people wanting the challenge can get it how they want, or 'GODS' who want to plow through can get it how they want. Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to avoid 'ruining' someone's gaming experience, but it's obvious you do not feel the same way because you are proposing to ruin mine and many others by mandatory clamping or not letting us into older content at all.

Funny thing is that when I queue in for a duo and end up with an at level toon, most times I'll ask "do you mind if I blast through this?" And sometimes "do you need XYZ...feat?". I've almost never been told they do mind, and many times am told they need the feat or "I don't know" in which case I'll try and assist with the feat unless it takes much of an effort/time. If they did mind, I'd walk out....if they don't answer I do assume they are ok with it, but as they say... "qui tacet consentire vedetur" or "He who remains silent is taken to agree". Are there exceptions, sure? Like when I re-queue and end up in the same run with the same guy...sorry, but I'm not re-queuing all day to get my 1 possible mark, or shot at a Dynasty Accent table or whatever I'm in there for.

Reinheld

Funny, your proposed fix is to form your own group... Why wouldn't this work for you, as a seasoned player? You likely have more friends in game to go it. If you need the FREE feat, form your own group and resist disrupting the content as it was intended!

Oh yes,,, and by all means - stop whining!!!

wanting to be an equal part of a team...and being able to do it...is the essence of the superteam story...there is never a comic that starts and ends in a single panel with the flash and superman explaining to batman that the earth was threatened but with god like speed and strength they took care of it while he wasnt needed ...that story would not entertain...as silly as superteams with both batman and superman on it would be they are the archetype...they are the model and inspiration for this game...perhaps instead of flattening players or content what we need is missions with several objectives...some easy...some deadly...some near suicidal...the more lower cr players would do bats work...stealthy missions vital to the teams success that dont involve exposing your fragile limbs directly in harms way...you might not fight bane or kalibak to the death...but someone better turn off that out of control multiverse enegy emitter ...and these fusion bombs...you just gonna let them explode?? the middle to slightly over crs would be the WWs and aquas...the red tornadoes...they can take a hit and win a fight...of course the joker and harley need to be beaten ...so the stealth team can defuse those bombs...what...you thought a lump of fusion bombs were left ungaurded?? and those 100 over crs...well SOMEONE has to fight a fully enraged bane...unarmed...to the death...

Actually, it's very complicated. What you're asking for is a complete rework of how instances work, and it's an extremely complicated issue. While you don't want to ruin the immersion for new players, you also don't want to ruin the immersion for the seasoned players.

You keep calling it a cheat, but it's not really a cheat is it? It's what happens in pretty much every single non-FPS game in the world, old content is old content. If other games did what you're suggesting, they'd lose a lot of interest quickly, as some people out there just enjoy destroying things, others achievements, others immersion. So it is probably one of the most complicated issues.

To get to your point about event content, I'm not quite sure what you mean. It gives lower CR/level players the option to participate in "end-game" content, while earning the newest marks for when they hit that CR range, and exposing them to the mechanics of the new content. Also giving them yet another path to get gear, which is important for CR leveling.

As to my personal opinion, I honestly was against it when they moved the CR caps in for Marks. I thought one special thing about DCUO compared to other games is that it made old content relevant to whatever I was doing regardless of my level/CR. I think they've handled it quite well though, and I honestly wouldn't change it for anything.

If they were to cap old content to CR zones, you would never run old content again, people would never get out of the <150CR zone, ever. Why because people, even people who just moved out of that content cycle, wouldn't go back unless they absolutely needed the feats, and even then, they'd form a group for it. Ques would literally die.

Although, I do like Dragonball Z and Goku is my favorite character. I have to fix your point a bit.

1) Goku fights Krillin at level 1 and although tough, beats him = That works
2) Goku levels to become a God and beats Jiren = That works
3) Goku meets up with Krillin again in a completely different dungeon later and has trouble beating him = That works assuming Krillin leveled up as well to God status some how. Hey, it's a story, right?
4) Goku the God then goes back to an old dungeon and sees Krillin again and one shot knocks him out = That only works if Goku went back in time in the story. Otherwise, it's lame and bad writing.

Gaming is all about challenge and story. Remove either one and it's boring.

That's a good point. I play with two of my boys and here's what went down.

We all got free 210 upgrades, and although we made characters with them, none of us have played them past 212 because we're not invested in the toons. We all play the toons from the Brainiac ship starting point.

I play my main toon who is at 252 starting from zero years ago, but he only has 137 skill points. By running older 4 player content to get the iconic gear to sell on the market, I was able to keep buying the 222 gear once the MoV were no longer of value to buy gear. Thus my point of view on the power levels. When I run the older group content with gear removed to equal other players, I notice far more player activity during the run, than when I've ran in God mode, which players will often just sit at the entry and wait the 3 minutes until the content is done.

Just like life, getting things for free is boring and unrewarding. In game, getting a feat or style of also boring if it's not earned. Case in point, you can buy a level 210 character and GOD mode all old content. How is this GOOD game design?

It is not a good game design.
It promotes and perpetuates bad players that have zero foundations with any of the fundamentals within DCUO.

It builds up weak players that have no clue what team work is or how their roles are suppose to work. It builds up weak minded individuals that quit when instances get hard. I see it on a daily basis.


This is something that should have been fixed during the Revamp a couple years ago when the devs were supposedly building a good foundation for the game. The only thing though......... They totally skipped the foundation if the game.............. and we wonder why the majority of the new players are clueless.

Sounds like you've already figured out the solution to your own problem.

Actually, you learn almost everything you need to know about the basic mechanics of the game in the first 5 minutes of playing. After that, things get a lot more complicated and getting a "tip" every now and again isn't the best way to solve it. That's why there are the forums, youtube, etc etc etc. I've said it before and I'll say it again, DCUO is a jumble, and every time they simplify it, people get shook.

What collections give what rewards? Where do I find specific styles for completion? What is the square root of 9? Where do you find the most relevant or "important information" about DCUO? Internet Browser. From the people who take the time to poste it. I mean, I want people to know what skulls mean at the higher end, but since those mechanics are pretty specific to each boss, what's the point of learning what the skulls mean at 130? A few solos, quests and maybe a duo later and you're into another tier of content with new skulls and mechanics, and you repeat the same process.

The real point is, the number of people doing old content on alts or new players would be significantly hindered by the proposal made by this thread. Cap CR in lower level content and watch as the 2-3 hour long duo que threads become more prevalent, or not as people would just throw the game into the trash.

Wasn't asking about running the toons through older content....was asking did you buy those free feats on toons that did not have them? if your main has 137, I'm guessing he did not have some of the 'freebie' feats (no offense)...does he have them now is the question? Also like the CC bounties or large 'count' feats...did you earn them as intended, or take advantage of your now higher level or a massive group spamming those outdoor bosses?

Just saying...if you are calling players 'cheaters' you should apply that term to anyone who is doing things different than intended, not just beasting through old queued content. Personally the only feats I could have gained from the 'skip to' token were the 2 or 3 higher exo farming feats....and I have not bought them yet. Not saying I consider this cheating....but I'd like your stance on it.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the 'skip to xxx' tokens. I've never bought one and only run 1 toon I used the free 100 skip on, the 2nd 100 skip toon is 110 and storage only, or for farming MoV if I'm in need. (CR 110-113 had a lot of content available for MoV drops).

Reinheld

Ok...that one I know....it's 3.

Although I'm sure someone will get on here to debate it.

Reinheld

Now we have wanna be comedians making posts. The first 5 minutes. LOL

Like it or not, players like you are part of the problem.

The game would not be hindered for anyone if there were a switch to run with stats capped or not. You just do not like it because it because you think that you would lose easy mode when in fact all players would be given a choice to play how they want. The game is not all about the end game players.
How will that easy mode be when you cannot Queue up for older instances?
Ohh wait. It's already happening.
Yeah, you can only play for so long by yourself before DCUO decides its no longer worth it to keep the servers going.



The deal is.............. Without new players having a good experience like the older players did. There will no longer be enough new players that can replace the old players as they leave the game. If new players do not stay and play the game. The game eventually does of attrition.

End of story.

I would politely disagree, based on my experiences being a player here from Beta.

When the game is played exclusively in the CR relevant range, the exact same experience happens. Players level from 1-30, and there is almost no tutorial or guidance. You have zero exposure to your support role, what your responsibility will be in a group setting, or what other players bring to the table. As a DPS, you get handed a hodgepodge of powers one at a time, so the DPS are actively being trained incorrectly to just mash whatever power they have available rather than learning rotations and clipping and whatnot (which can't be done even if the player DID understand rotations, because they won't unlock certain powers until they reach almost level 30).

So clueless players were reaching level 30, without a clue, and are suddenly introduced to a complete shocker of the world of raiding. Players are totally unprepared, and way back when Khandaq and Batcave WERE the endgame and Inner Sanctum was considered ridiculously hard, we would have these players joining in who had no clue. Just because they walked into it when all of us were CR relevant did NOT somehow mean that they were better prepared.

With today's standard, they walk through the easy stuff with their babysitters, and they are allowed to take babysteps. At first, they basically just do anything and the other players are carrying it. Then around Paradox Wave, they hit their first hiccup. That high level guy gets stuck in a bubble, and you have to break him out. Suddenly you matter, and somebody has one very small, very simple, but very important responsibility. When nobody does it, the group fails, regardless of the high level guys. This is the first time a player gets a "get good" moment where they are forced to learn.

A little ways further, they face raids like Ceberus and Throne of the Dead, where fights like Forge Master and Ares will punish the entire raid with failure if one person is doing something wrong. This will be the first time that a player is faced with individual responsibility. While their DPS might not actually mean a lot, understanding the fight is required and failures will hold the entire group back and eventually get you kicked (once they figure out who's doing it).

A little ways further, you start hitting what are arguably the most challenging non-elite raids in the game: Prison Break, Darkseid, and Brainiac's Ship. These are fights where there can be real enough challenges and mechanics that higher CR can still end up getting killed if the group isn't running smoothly enough. We've all seen groups of CR200+ players wipe on either of the first two fights in Prison Break, or on Brainiac, or Darkseid. This is also the first time you're typically going to find the one player who has to explain the fights to the group, because there's so much going on that everybody needs to be able to do their job.

Making it past this hurdle, by the time you're reaching Earth-3, individual players need to be fulfilling their role. A cruddy Controller or Healer is something that high enough level players can overcome, but it will be noticeable and you're going to start getting chewed out. Between Justice Society, Earth-3, and Starro, DPS finally will be feeling the pressure that they need to learn their rotation, their clipping, their power interactions and so on. The Higher CR players will have had the gap narrowed to the point that they are no longer doing 10x the damage of the new players, and everybody will be telling the new players to step up. New players in their support roles will have to learn their jobs and start doing them correctly. At this point, you will find increasingly fewer people who queue for both roles when they don't want to play their support role; they are starting to learn.

And by the time you hit Titans, you are fully acclimated into the main population. You have either learned, or you are consistently getting booted and at least have been made aware of your shortcomings.

The current system does not create some shocking all-or-nothing change; that was actually the state when the game was first introduced, and that is what would return if we followed a Stat-clamping approach of removing overpowered players. Instead, the current system is designed to gradually increase the individual responsibility of each player over time, slowly easing them into it. With each increase in teir, those "OP players" have a smaller and smaller gap between you, and so you need to step up just a little bit more.

If your issue is that players are lacking a foundation in playstyle skills, then you should recognize that the current system of babysitters slowly easing in new players is the closest thing to a tutorial we have, and removing it will do far more damage than good.

THIS.......

You all forget the beginning. Today at level 262, if a DEV jumped in this "DARK" BRAND NEW content with a GOD Mode character and wiped all the challenge from your first gaming experiences in said content, you would flip!! Imagine now, if they kept doing it, so you rarely enjoyed the challenge of any game content. Now add to that a newbie jumping in the Boss fight to aggro the entire room to cause a wipe each and every time you tried the content, and there's no kick option... Remember those times?

So many jaded players thinking they own the older content, when they shouldn't even be allowed in it with a first time player to ruin their experience. Think you would have enjoyed "Sixth Sense" knowing Bruce Willis was dead?

So your point of contention is that the game will die if people who que for old content in "god mode" are not clamped because people won't have a good experience in the early stages of the game? Or did I misunderstand, because if you're saying "who cares eventually the game will die" I mean yea, that's true of all games?

Let's be perfectly honest; there already is a "switch" if you personally want to run old content at a lower CR, just take off some gear, as the OP has already. Here's where a mandatory switch comes in;
-Switch to I only want to play with CR relevant team mates mode
-Do daily stuff, mess around with the broker, etc.
-Stand AFK in Gotham
-Read all of the "hilarious" shout chat
-Still waiting for my duo que to pop
-3 hours later and I'm still waiting.... ugh I regret my life choices.
-Switch to all CRs
-Que pops and you clear your daily duo with maybe relative ease.

I don't really see what all of the fuss is about. You do learn everything in the first 5 minutes; Skills, Powers, Blocking, Block Breaking, Weapons, Movement, it's all there, on the Brainiac ship... You learn about vendors, marks, quests etc in the following 3 missions? The basics of the game are relatively simple and yet, those are the ones a lot of people have trouble with. Then to learn power interactions, rotations. clipping, mechanics, loadouts etc, you go to the browser, type into google what you want to learn. I'm not really sure how else to put it, what you want can already be achieved. Forcing it on people would be just bad game design.

Some queues are essentially dead already. The only way you can get into some content is by forming your own group.

Are you sure the square root of 9 is 3?

Can you show your work or post a video of that?

Are you sure about that? Do you honestly believe that if a new Episode launched and there was a feature that made it basically impossible to fail, players would abandon the game because of the lack of challenge?

Because there is an EVENT version of the brand new Episode where the portals never close, allowing players to die a million times, do absolutely nothing right, and still win. And even months after the release of Atlantis, the EVENT version, the failure-proof ultra-easy version, was popping faster than the Regular Version, and the Regular Version was popping faster than the Elite Version.

The actual evidence seems to suggest that the majority of players prefer easier content that can be completed fast, instead of challenging content that takes forever. And there is still room for both.

But the actual evidence in the game seems to suggest that the number one thing that frustrates all players and drives them out of content is when the queues don't pop. Nobody wants to sit and wait and do nothing. Nobody wants to log in so that they can NOT be able to play. So splitting our queues in half will always be a bad idea.

And a bunch of Veterans claiming that New Players are going to quit if they are not hazed by making the slower popping low-end content also be harder and take longer, with no evidence to support it other than their own opinions, doesn't seem to be cause enough to take the new players and slow their progression significantly so that they have even more time where they can't play with their friends and can't contribute to their League. MMOs are a social game by nature. And in MMOs, the vast majority of the population congregates at the endgame, which is why virtually all new content gets released for the endgame. So creating features that stop or slow players from being able to join everybody, keeping them floundering in the dead queues and abandoned tiers, that, more than anything else, would drive them away.