Fix lower end group content GOD MODE

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Playright, Mar 20, 2019.

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  1. the solowing Unwavering Player

    Faint memories resurfaced seeing this lol I remember people saying pancake as fast as they could like 3 times Some of the group where chaos in there, and im @Sorctillidie so i had to work extra hard to keep up with the Nature tossin out HoT like rice at a wedding. Bro i swore they were OP in bug xD
    • Like x 1
  2. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    i was just using those as examples of why the thread's immediate premise is fallible, such examples along with other player's testimonies demonstrate how (to a degree, as obviously the forums are a small player sample) most players on average at CR for the tier missions do appreciate high CR players helping out rather than griping about it. most people LIKE having someone make the raid quite a bit easier, or in the very least grudgingly accept it as semi-necessary. it's just cause lower tier content really is a bit of a ghost town to qeue, thus it's even worse if the players wait a few hours and then never even get to finish. as others have stated, the endgamers being in lower content isn't as devastating as people point out. the alternative is find one of the few leagues willing to run that stuff or form their own groups. but personally i wouldn't trust most people's "pack mentality" in-group thinking in a formed group, too much favoritism to friends over players who can actually advance the run, seen it happen too many times.
  3. the solowing Unwavering Player

    There was a time i only cared to solo heal, add a second healer i didnt want, i got annoyed. It was until i was trying to gear up my hero making a group, and i told them i couldnt solo heal just yet and they all left. In that moment i realized, with a nice serving of humble pie. I realized they reacted to me how i reacted to another low level healer wanting just to join. Id have them kicked for just wanting to be a healer. Because my ego was so swollen.
    • Like x 2
  4. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    precisely, had the same thing happen on a few of my other runs (and a near identical occurrence in league of assassins). it isn't the high CR players in particular ruining lower CR runs, it's the dumb inexperienced ones in general (who occur at every level and CR). the "me first" attitude doesn't work in an MMO where team work is emphasized through primarily raiding content.
    • Like x 1
  5. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Wasn't commenting on the overall statement regarding the actual topic. Just that 'stealing' remark in regards to outdoors missions/seasonals. I see a lot of people get irked by it...personally as long as I'm getting credit too, the more the merrier. I said 'sidenote'.

    • Like x 2
  6. Knarlydude Loyal Player

    That's not necessarily true. You can tell that the Devs are leaning towards and believe that putting stat caps on lower content is what needs to be done.

    The proof is in the pudding with the events level content that lasts the whole DLC. What the devs have done with the Events is basically the same thing as stat caps but they flipped the scenario. The majority of the players have the same base stats and the guys that are over geared are not so over geared that they break the instances.
    How the events are working now is exactly how capping stats work. When you cap stats in lower content. You as a developer do not want to cap stats at that CR. You cap the stats at a Tier above so that lower players can see and feel the stat increases. And, that is why the events level content has been working well.

    As far as capping the stats in lower content goes.

    I'm more inclined to think that the only reason why it has not been done yet is.....
    DCUO feels they do not have the number of players to do that without hurting end game content and......
    not wanting to spend the extra resources because.......
    they are not sure if it will be worth their time.
    • Like x 1
  7. Proxystar #Perception

    You're a minority, most people don't want stat clamping that's clearly evidenced in this thread where the majority are opposed and you're making every second comment in support.

    Move on already.
    • Like x 2
  8. the solowing Unwavering Player

    Am i supposed to follow the hive mind? Its a open forum, not an echo chamber
    • Like x 1
  9. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    i don't mind them helping out, as it makes it much easier on some of them. it's when they follow me around like a mother duck to a duckling or just stand there waiting while i do the work that irks me, and i do mean just stand there.
  10. Knarlydude Loyal Player

    If the Devs didn't think this was the right way to go. The events would not be capped.

    Before anyone tries to say the events stats are not capped.
    The events are capped by the end game gear themselves.
    By setting the events up at the lower end of the DLC's CR.
    All players stats are capped at 1 Tier max above the events content.
    • Like x 1
  11. Knarlydude Loyal Player

    Most people do like stats being capped and its working.
    They just don't realize that they are having their stats capped.

    Every new DLC that has events level access is proof.
    Events are set at the lowest CR of each new DLC.
    Which in turn makes stats capped at the max stats of end game gear.

    Like it or not the devs have outsmarted the players that screamed that capping stats would not work.
    • Like x 1
  12. Doc.Doom15 Committed Player

    PROBLEM: Duo/Alert/Raid content is heavily broken in regard to GOD Mode CR Players.
    NOT A PROBLEM: These are not GOD mode players, they are just running older content to get some feats/gear that they missed before (which will most likely help you get some feats whilst they run with you and carry you, most people don't complain and say take away these free feat points after they are done, do you?)

    ISSUE: Any group content where a 260 CR toon can come in and wipe the place in a matter seconds, leaving the other proper CR toons struggling to get a shot off or get in Boss fights due to the GOD character running in to solo the content.
    NOT AN ISSUE: Get your own team together if you don't like high CR players in your team and tell me how long it took you to do this. Alternatively if a high CR joins just ask them to do X for a feat you need and I'm sure most won't have an issue with doing that if it doesn't take up too much of their time

    THE FIX: Automatically CAP the CR of any player entering the content to what ever the highest level allowed for that content is, much like what is done with Atlantis and Doomsday, but in reverse. Certainly allow all players in, but by leveling the CR, it makes the content relevant and enjoyable to all group members.
    NOT A FIX: This will only make high CR players never run it again which will make you queue for these things even longer

    Jeez, these posts just annoy me so much. Get your own team together if you don't like the way queues work. And why does it take an eternity to get one together? Because the majority of other players just like to be carried to end game instead of being stuck on CR 50-150 forever. The options of not being carried are out there, either use them or stop whining.
    • Like x 3
  13. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    i feel like stat clamping (higher players in lower content) probably would do more damage than good, looking at the census of real time data of players in game (observed across all forms of content, including open world in various places), only about maybe "half" of dcuo's player base seems to know what they're doing. we have: 1. players who are lazy and do nothing (the moochers), 2. the inexperienced who stay that way even in higher tiers (the unteachables), 3. people who care only about themselves; ruining runs by acting as if the rest of the team doesn't exist (the hot headed narcissist) and 4. those who do "try" to do something useful but ultimately fail and fail hard (the weak link). all four of these occur at all levels of the game and make any run (outside of one well below their CR) a total nightmare. the only change between high CR endgamers and the people failing at tier are the results. in the case of high CR players in lower tier content the third category is mostly "beneficial" making runs faster, and usually people are fine with this. however it's fair to remember that those hot heads running through guns blazing at 250 CR (or however high they are) have about a 50/50 chance of being either a pro endgamer or a complete joke at the right CR back then too and now they just have the CR to blast through it. those same people "burning" everything? some of them were just as thoughtless when THEY had to run it the first time, some of them still are.........
    • Like x 1
  14. Knarlydude Loyal Player

    I beg to differ.
    If it was not working or a good idea the events would not be set at the lowest CR of each DLC.
    There are stat caps there and no one is the wiser.

    And besides that point.
    What was mentioned was an option to turn off and on. All players would have a choice and it would not be forced.

    Just as letting player go straight to elite content. The players that want it harder get the choice.
    • Like x 3
  15. Jacob Dragonhunter Steadfast Player

    First off, allow me to point out some points you've made that I agree with.

    "Yes there needs to be a choice between my way or the highway"-I completely agree on that. With the only thing I'd say that maybe problematic is that que times could slow to a result, but with the way it is right now.. it probably won't make much of a difference.

    "DCUO has a retention problem" Speaking from my perspective I've had two sides to that coin. I've seen first hand that there are veterans in the game who want to teach some of these newer players how to play their role properly, but there'll be player in the game that are new and say "I know what I'm doing" and literally refuse to take any advice. I've also seen the scenario you've talked about where people are expected to play their roles but they don't know how.

    This is something that DCUO should've gone more in depth to. But even if we do allow players to run content at appropriate levels, there still exists some player issues in there as well as we can't force them to learn how to become a tank, let alone play it instead of just dpsing all the time which is very common in this game.

    And I'm someone who does like to learn a game through trial and error, but there's no denying the fact that we have people in this game or in a-lot of video games these days who don't have that attention span to learn, but whom will also get frustrated if they can't progress at the same rate as everybody else does. You know, the "instant gratification" people.

    To Clarify: I'm not saying that people running the instance with everyone at tier is a bad thing, but there's certainly some doubts I have if it will achieve more players and a healthier community to the game. Especially given that we are discussing the same game that nerfed the brainiac tutorial down, when the tutorial it's self wasn't really asking the player to learn much.

    My Answer to some of your other questions:
    "If players are quitting due to difficulty at early tiers, what's keeping them there at higher tiers?" The answer is they come here and get the developers to nerf things for them, and the developers a-lot of the time cave in.

    I'm not exaggerating this either. All you'd need to do is go ask people about the famous 100 Page Nerf DWF thread that was here about a year ago, and you'll get the idea of what I'm talking about. Additionally, I've also seen folks on here go off about the best rewards in the game being locked behind elite content and not reg.

    To their credit, the developers didn't nerf DWF. But this was kind of a one off, a lot of the other content gets nerfed right off the bat. While others actually want some of the content to remain challenging, or some others don't even find the content actually challenging and more or less find it to be inflated/artificial difficulty like with the revive limit in elite for instance.

    "Instant Gratification" -No other word than what you've said in your reply defines this scenario the best.

    Additionally those who are at end-game also run the content because there's incentives to run it. Every new piece of content means newer forms of progression, new styles, newer instances etc. There's a reason to run the content.

    On top of it too, there's more incentives with the bonus currency weekends the developers have been doing as well. The starfire and lava materials back in the Titans Episode gave people more of an incentive to continue running Titans and spend some replays while the developers continued to work on Atlantis. But just as there's incentives when the content is new, people will stop running it once they finish everything.

    Take the Age Of Justice episode for instance, people ran everything when it was new. You would constantly see people in LFG type "Grodd spawned, phase!."

    Now take a look at LFG now, you don't see that anymore because a vast majority of the players have gotten the feats finished with those bounties.

    How does this apply to old content and clamping down players? Well essentially, it's like this the way I see it. If you want higher ups to lower their CR without reducing que times so much, I feel like you need to throw in new incentives/rewards for them to do it. Some kinda material or new cosmetic, or even a feat for running clamped would be nice if someone chose to do it.

    However as you've mentioned, it also needs to be a choice. People in the game value being strong enough to go take down Ursa and Zod in one sitting, and newer players also need to feel the struggle. Content in this game seems to be alive mostly, when people see an incentive to run it. GU 47 drastically got rid of our incentives for running content outside of getting our feats out of it, which is another reason why I see old content doesn't pop imo.

    So underneath what propositions would I support a clamping system?
    • It's optional just as you've proposed.
    • There's incentives for clamping someone down, so higher ups will que with the newer folks and maybe run the older content more.
    • Give us a solo que option for soloing, or give us portals. That way, higher CR's can get the feats and cosmetics they need without being discriminated. The new incentives would probably be excluded, some people would be unhappy with it, but it should be seen as a trade-off since you don't need other players to come with you in this scenario.
    While I do agree with what you've said. We'd ought to also acknowledge players come back to those instances not because of feats they overlooked, it's because of feats they may have not finished because we always have those style set pieces in the older content that get difficult to finish because there's RNG attached to it.
    I wish they would remove the "role specific" gear as well, so tired of getting a sector agent piece I can't use because it demands me to be a healer class.
    And as I've pointed out above, there are some scenarios where Higher CR's do show some consideration and the newer player happens to be completely rude.
    It's an online game, people new or old can be rude to one another. But that doesn't mean every newbie is rude, and it doesn't mean every higher CR is intended to ruin the experience for new players.
    Trying to associate a group of people or "you guys" as bad because someone was acting bad is really just disingenuous, and I don't appreciate it. It's not something directed just specifically at him, sorry if it came across that way.
    • Like x 3
  16. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    oh trust me i've seen a handful of players go down in event raids/alerts too, quite a few in the raids mostly. crown of thorns/fight for the throne is a giant thorn (pun intended) in a healers buttocks. what i'm getting at is that those two groups (skilless high CR players and at tier skilless players) SHOULD NEVER be together in one group at the same time, as is for every tactless at CR player or below recommended CR player a high CR has on the team the more the endgame player's performance suffers. having the same amount of good players as bad in a group doesn't even out the groups performance, it just brings down the skilled players with the unskilled and they all wipe. to put it simply "a team is only as good as it's weakest link." a militant saying which holds quite a lot of weight in this scenario.

    it'd be nice to turn on and off stat clamping but i doubt this would ever work if it can never be agreed WHO makes it optional, the endgamers or their at CR teammates? and would either smartly use another way to so utterly screw-up the run, knowing most people don't have the best judgement? most of us want to "think" we have good judgement, but fact and reality usually says otherwise.
    • Like x 1
  17. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Well if they do nothing, they get no credit, unless you group them which case, shame on you.

    But we digress. That's for another post.

  18. recoil2 Dedicated Player

    in this situation "it's the thought that counts". in the case of the person who "follows" me around like a complete stalker, they're using me to find something they apparently "can't", which is a sad way to act, they could've at least legitimately asked me "hey can you help me find where pots (objective so and so) spawns?" and i would have obliged. in the case of the person just standing around NEAR me while i'm trying to collect coins and doing nothing, it's clear their intent is to mooch off me and even worse, aren't smart enough to do so. i don't group with anyone for these seasonal/open world events unless it says to do so (it will have a 4 or 8 by the journal entry on screen/in journal if it's a group operation), i'll even go as far as to do the kill X amount of npcs solo for the fun of it, takes about an hour.
  19. Proxystar #Perception

    It's not an echo chamber, you're entitled to your opinion by all means but at least understand that you're heavily outnumbered in terms of desire.

    The majority of the community don't want stat clamping, your arguments are heavily destroyed every time the topic comes up, but every time someone raises the topic you're back here again with the same old debunked arguments like somehow something has changed.

    You're welcome to your opinion but just remember you're outnumbered and coming to that realisation would probably do you a world of good ;)
    • Like x 1
  20. Proxystar #Perception

    Event content is not the same thing as game wide stat clamping and you know it, nice way to be entirely disingenuous though lol
    • Like x 3
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