Fix lower end group content GOD MODE

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Playright, Mar 20, 2019.

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  1. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    You are right....Knarly is way more entertaining.

    You seemed to have missed the point, or at least as far as I could get through the essay, that's how it looked. If you've suggested a fix the the queueing system 7 times, you could suggest it an 8th time(maybe this time they will listen)....I'd guess you've suggested a stat clamp or whatever that many times. The difference between the 2 is fixing the queue system does not impact MY play....only yours. I'd love nothing more than never having to queue shadowlands to get my 2 marks in 3 or 4 minutes and end up with a level 70 (who BTW...I don't abandon behind a mess of adds I could fly over, and often will ask "you mind if I blow through these adds?") in the group. Better I could just run it myself and get my marks. Adding a few more marks to a run like that at the cost of 15 or 20 min of my time will not entice me at least...I'll just stop running it, then where will your level 70 be?....still waiting in queue I'd guess.

    Old content is only applealing to high levels who need something from it...generally quickly. If I wanted to play for the nostalgia of it, I'd make an alt (and have done so...I have several at lower levels for 'fun' runs of old content). I doubt there are many players who queue into old content who just do it so they can get to the end and show what a beast they are....Maybe there are a few, but I'm not one. The funny thing is this honestly barely impacts me as I run very little old content anymore, I just don't agree with someone suggesting a change that DOES impact my time on the game if I choose to run this old content.

    The real issue with your suggestion is that if I queue into that same Shadowlands duo with antother 250+ 'god mode' player we now both are clamped and have to slog through...boy, wouldn't that be a fun way to spend 20 min?

    BTW....since you are accusing me....
    Can you point to the part where you said "we gave multiple solutions to this problem". It seems to have fallen off your post I was replying to. I only see you had suggested a "two word" phrase as the solution.
    Just so you know...those little " " marks mean that you are quoting something actually said, not something you thought about saying.

    Reinheld
  2. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Again...fixing the queue system I'm all behind. If you could put in an 'on/off' for queuing a max CR, kind of like the 'role optional' or 'task force X' settings, where you can set 'CR relevant only', I'm all for it. This is not what was suggested by the OP....he suggested a 'CAP', which (to me) means a nerf or 'stat leveling' or whatever you want to call it, it's also what Ringz was suggesting.

    I was responding to solowing's proposal that sounded like you could pick the CRs of whatever roles were in the run, then hope that you'd match with other players who's settings would intersect your own. Besides the fact that seems like a lot of coding, it would probably make a match (except if opened to a very wide CR margin) almost impossible.

    BTW, if the high schooler wants to swing on the swings, and the only playground has all the little kids in it, he's there for the swing...not to hang with the kindergartners. I'm sure he'd rather just swing on the swings in peace all things being equal...the little kids tend to pee everywhere and cry a lot.

    Reinheld
  3. Ringz Dedicated Player


    " I have championed for the same idea in a big thread in different ways many years ago..." "big thread different ways" "different ways"....

    I went ahead and read the rest of your statement since you tagged me for a correction on my post. Besides all the self serving " I.. I ... I.. Me Reinheld" in your post and you thinking my solution to this is flat out stat clamping content; you completely missed out on the rewarding at least. The only way to get old players in old content was if the devs forced it and rewarding them afterwards, hence why I brought up the artifact catalyst post.

    OP is obviously new around here and frustrated with the current state, so his exact post might've not been well thought out or for the overall betterment of the game. But there definitely are past threads that are. This topic is nothing new. If the devs shows sign of interest again than I and others will be in that thread repeating our essay format of ALL of our ideas and suggestion for the 8th time.

    You are more than welcome to do your research on what ideas were presented in those past threads. I definitely ain't gonna teach another history lesson again lol.
  4. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Um...ok, that's not how quotes work, but sure. Those things are indeed similar to "I clearly stated "we gave multiple solutions to this problem"". However as you were replying to the OP, who was basically outlining a 'stat clamp' AND you say "I have championed for the same idea..." I think it's fair to say IN THIS THREAD it looks like you were pushing only for a stat clamp.

    Yes, I'm referring to myself, as that's all my opinion counts for. I do not represent any collective of players (as you apparently do), but I think I do feel the same as many (some of who posted here too), that if the price of getting a few extra MoV out of old content is that the content takes 5x or 10x as long, no thanks. But again, you are trying to make a change that would force stat clamping vs a choice to run stat clamped content or not, regardless of marks. If it's a choice you are suggesting, some sort of 'CR relevant' switch, fine...I'm all in with you there. I didn't go back to all your other posts from "many years ago" on this subject to cross reference what you have said before, but here you were talking about stat clamping as was the OP. Personally, I'd see the ability to run content with a lower group number would be a more effective solution, but whatever gets the job done.

    IMHO (and yes....even I am entitled to my own opinion, as you are) stat clamping will drive people away from running old content regardless of the rewards. Artifact cats were placed in the content and it did spike the people running things, but obviously that was not a good fit as they removed that setup. It also seemed to lead to even more of a faceroll factor as many of the people entering those runs really only wanted the cat opposed to the occasional endgame player who might actually run old content for fun (and I admit there are a few of those out there) where they MIGHT want to be helpful and go slow enough for a low CR person to enjoy it or knock out a few feats.

    Good day,
    Reinheld
  5. Ringz Dedicated Player

    When I need to write a essay in MLA format, then I will proofread my writing. Anyways

    As far as being clear on what my stance on this is. Yes I believe the game should and would benefit off of stat clamps instances, same as you believe the game wouldn’t and would drive players away. What is agreed on by you, I and almost everybody is a middle ground to be met. That’s where the ideas originated like teleport era, optional qing systems, all of that from You, I , the others from those many many years ago, and even somebody just thinking of basic QOL this game needs, would think of these ideas.

    What it all comes down to is whenever the devs are ready to take action, then I will be down to repeat all the nitty gritty actions that would take place to please everyone, and all the devs outcome of how this won’t work. Every thread will be posted for reference, everybody who was interested now and then will voice their information again, then we will wait.

    So we can go ahead and cut this idea that somebody is ttrying to force something on everybody due to their behalf. That mistake was made to PvP. Why would I let that happen here...
  6. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Fine...So it sounds like we are in agreement. My response to you was partially based off the fact that apparently I am only concerned with my OPness and why I would resist the change....as stated by your first reply to me.
    Which was not entirely accurate. I was specifically asking for changes to be made, but to the queuing system. And yeah, that would apparently match up to what you had asked for years ago. So why the hostility? Sounds like we were in agreement the whole time.

    Reinheld
  7. BabyBoyzim Dedicated Player

    Are you trying to kill the game further?
    • Like x 1
  8. VariableFire Loyal Player

    New players combined with those who have selective amnesia (those who don't remember what happened when content relevance was first added to the game) always come up with these types of solutions.
    • Like x 3
  9. Great Architect Loyal Player


    I've seen better options in other games.

    1. Once you are out of CR relevancy, you can only get in with a custom group.
    2. If you are running with a Tank, and you are significantly OP, then it's easy to ascend to the top of the hate table and steal aggro from the Tank.
    3. With no Tank, the highest DPS(es) top the hate table.
    4. The player at the top of the hate table takes damage commensurate with their DPS. Not a problem for a Tank or a DPS at level. Serious issue for OP DPS.
  10. the solowing Unwavering Player

    These are structural problems that honestly shouldnt exist
    • Like x 1
  11. Knarlydude Loyal Player

    I don't have selective anything. I watched first hand what happened and my memory is better than most.

    WTHeck are you smoking? GU47 killed the game and the PC server because MoT/MoV were no longer given and people lost thousands of in game currency that they earned by running content.

    If relevancy was removed for players that ran with their stats capped they would run the content. That is a guarantee. A prime example would be the Events menu. Stats are clamped in there and all instances within the Events tab minus LPVE usually pop within a minute or two.

    Before GU47 it was the same way for the whole game. All instances usually popped in under 5 minutes.

    There are a lot pf people that like playing the whole game. Not just the end and new content. Hell, It would make it 100% easier to find groups for running feats as well. It all boils down to not receiving marks and that's the only thing it boils down to.

    Like what I mentioned earlier.
    Make it so that people can toggle to run with stats capped or without in all lower content and everyone's concerns are satisfied. It you want to go kicking elementary kids butt's more power to you. If you want to run with a higher difficulty. That would be your choice as well.

    Also,
    Lets not forget that running in God Mode teaches new players jack shi7 other than it's easier to quit and wait so that they can be carried instead of learning the mechanics. There is a reason why there are so many players that are not very good at following mechanics and its not because people are running over geared in lower content. I'd drop a few Benjamin's down against you about that any day of the week.
  12. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said, but not this. Event content is not capped, the low players are buffed and over the buff you are basically a beast (CR 241+). Even if there is a technical clamp in place (never checked my stats out in there honestly) try to tell me there is not a difference between running on a 241 buffed toon and a 260 toon...cause there is one...a big one. Add to that the event runs have easier mechanics lower HP bosses and non locking boss fights, and the event runs are easy to queue and quicker to finish. Add to that the fact that it's the only place to get END GAME currency and that's another difference in Event vs old content. End game currency has more value because it can be used to advance your toon. MoV at best would allow you to pay the rent, get some old styles or extra cat caches. Just look at the double/triple MoV weekends and how they are greeted by many players....to many, extra MoV serves little purpose.

    I still agree that if there are rewards in lower end content, some people will run it more, but remember when that old content paid MoT but was not capped, part of the reason we ran it was because you could go in and beast out some quick marks. After removal of MoT/MoV, AND GU47 stat clamping, those old runs were a ghost town. Now you say it's because there were no more rewards....I say it's because they effectively made those old runs take a lot longer. Difference of opinion to be sure, but comparing old runs to event runs is not equal....and there are no guarantees in life.

    Now if by 'events' you mean the seasonal indoor runs, those are capped....and again, not really comparable as they currency they drop is not MoV, but seasonal and basically the same as end game currency in that those runs are the best and sometimes only way to get THAT currency. Also, I've seen several groups where people leave out because those runs go bad...and that's a 5 min seasonal...not a 60 minute raid.

    Reinheld
    • Like x 2
  13. C3alix Committed Player

    I've said this before and I'll say it again.

    • Like x 3
  14. Knarlydude Loyal Player


    You know as well as I do that GU 47 broke lower content. It was not clamped. It was broken because it was not tested and recieved hardly any feedback. I remember that all too well. whoooo it was ugly and should have been delayed. It was sooooo bad.
    It was not even comparable to running it when all the lower content was new and fresh. They rolled it back because it was broken and not for any other reason.

    The exact same thing happened with the lower content in the Revamp as well. Everyone was testing all of the end game stuff maxed out on everything and didn't bother to check the lower content. The lower content after the Revamp was just about as busted. But at least I expected it that time. xD The testers were/are too worried bout bein LEETE and it is beneath them to test lower stuff.

    With the busted lower content and the zero marks to boot. By the time that they fixed the lower content. It was too late. The PC server was already gone.
    • Like x 3
  15. myandria Item Storage

    Hmm...

    Yeah, I have to admit; GU47 really hurt; I was on the PS3 at the time I and a few fellow console players took a break shortly after it launched; ugly is a very kind word to describe it. The revamps were not very enjoyable, either.
    • Like x 3
  16. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Agreed it was probably the worst way to implement any kind of clamping. There were runs where I was in with my at CR toons and even with double SP for what had when the content was fresh, dang near everything was a one-shot (eclipso in Vengance....forget it). My point was still that it was the difficulty and inability to complete the content, due to the changes (bad as they were) that drove people away....loss of marks was salt in the wound. I'd guess if they were giving full marks we'd still have seen the same effect.

    Doesn't matter who's right about the worst part of it....it was a fail either way. I'd hope if they do do anything even remotely like that, they'd test better and (as suggested) make it a choice vs a forced clamping.

    Reinheld
    • Like x 4
  17. Knarlydude Loyal Player

    Yes, I agree.
    Forced clamping in lower instances should not be a thing but having a choice would keep everyone happy and give new players the chance to learn on their own. In the end it would benefit the game as a whole.

    I can also understand peoples reluctance to clamping. It was nowhere near what running at CR was before that. What GU 47 was when it released was a broken pile of dung. How GU 47 was executed. PFffftt.........
    It was a total disaster.

    That whole thing was a masterpiece of destruction and denial.

    I was writing and essay & decided I better remove the rest of it here. xD
  18. Brit Loyal Player

    The game is designed in a manner that provides the largest amount of accessibility to the largest number of players. The responsibility of the individual player if they wish to experience content in a different manner falls upon themselves.

    If I wanted to run through low level content and be really challenged, I have options. I can run it with an alt. I can take off pieces of gear until my CR drops low enough. I can do whatever I want to do, so that I can run it the way that I want to run it. And if I want to run it super overpowered, well, I earned the gear and I have the right to do that as well.

    If you want to run with a group where nobody is overpowered, then that is your own preference. And that is fine. Nobody will fault you your preference. But you do not have the right to impose your preferences on everybody else. So if you want to run it with a lower powered group, just get into /LFG and build a group exactly the way you want. That's the beauty of it. You don't need to destroy everybody else's options in order to find what you want; you just need to ask around for likeminded people.

    And if you can't find 7 other players who want to do it? Well. If there honestly isn't a whole group worth of players interested in this, then it would definitely be a terrible idea to force something onto everyone if almost nobody wants it.
    • Like x 5
  19. the solowing Unwavering Player

    the argument isn't to take away the ability to do things for high-level players personally I would like a choice it keeps the people who want to blaze through the content happy and keeps those who want to actually play the content as it's intended happy. Daybreak can't do any walk-ins so why not create two sets of instances for the lower-tier. Yes it'll further segment the community, but everyone gets what they want. The high created players don't have to play with the low-level trash and the low levels players experience is preserved. but it's better than the default option of high-level players simply running the place and low-level players are just trash that you have to be paired up with.

    How much is the issue this actually is I can't say but more options is a good thing..
  20. Brit Loyal Player

    When you're talking about something specifically directed towards lower level content, lower level content that already sees really slow queue times and very low player interest, splitting the queues to divide the playerbase and make it even slower and less likely to pop sounds like a strong step backwards.

    I stand by my original recommendation that, if you want to run a raid of all lower level players without anyone "too OP", the best course of action is simply to build the group yourself. If you try and you succeed in building the group, then everyone will get what they want, and in addition you will have identified likeminded players to work with again for the next week. But if you do try and you still cannot find the 8 players you need, then you can see exactly what the level of interest is in such a feature.

    I don't look at it as being any different than players who only want to group with other players having 200+ skill points. If that's what you want to do, it's fine, but the responsibility should be to the individual player to build that group.

    The game's default queuing system should appeal to the lowest common denominator, so that it can get the fastest possible queue times. Any self-imposed restrictions you might choose to place on your group are your own personal choice, and it becomes your responsibility then to build the group.

    I respect what you're trying to do. And I have alts scattered at all sorts of different CRs for exactly that reason; if you ever want to run those lower raids with a CR-appropriate group, shoot me an invite and I'll log to someone who will fit in. I think it's great fun. But what I don't find fun is sitting in the Watchtower waiting for stuff to pop, and so any request that would slow the queues and cause less playing and more waiting-to-play is just something I consider to be an overall bad decision.
    • Like x 1
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