Fix lower end group content GOD MODE

And that is why new peeps don't stick around.
To some veterans, that new peep is just a nobody. To some veterans, that new peep is just a resource to use as the veteran sees fit. Or, in this case, as you are using them as an example.... all they are is "ammunition" to fuel a one sided argument.

New peeps matter.

The queues for lower tiered content would go up.

Thank you for see ing that.
Also, a big thank you for going through and responding to all the other posts. I know it must have taken some time to do, and I thank you for putting in the effort to explain those things as you see them. (sincerely)

I'm not going to get into a discussion about what I think is a waste of resources, or isn't a waste of resources, or what a dev should be focusing on, or not focusing on..... unless it's a dev that starts the discussion. Even then? I know that my opinion is just that, an opinion.

Typically you've missed my point.

It's not that i don't care about the t3 player, it's that i don't care about them within the context of the debate.

The question isn't why is the t3 player there, it's obvious why they're there, it's their relevant content, they're there earning marks and getting rewards.

The question is why is the t9 player there? And if you do clamp how do you get them there or keep them there?

That can be for a raft of reasons not just the "omg this high level jerk just wants to ruin my day" narrative you guys like to spin.

But by all means hone in on the singular aspect of my post you can make emotive rather than dealing with the actual content of my post.

Again in 9 years this issue doesn't really come up, it's not the big issue a few of you make it out to be and you're always the same people in every thread when this comes up but the way, it just simply isn't.

The game naturally wants us to progress and become overpowered, it's what the game is, you should deal with it.

As much as you want your optional stat clamping system, it's simply not possible, it's a myth.

Because the only way it'll be utilized is by making it mandatory and you know that full well, but you actually don't care because you just want stat clamping and that's it, even though the game isn't broken and requiring it.

And even if this does sound rough if out of 100s of players 99 of them are fine but one throws a fit and comes and moans about it, then tough, who cares, you're never going to please everyone, that one squeaky wheel can go off and play a different game and if you think that makes me mean then that's fine, but i won't apologise because a small minority of people have an issue with stronger characters being present in a 9 year old video game.

Keep in mind context. In that same example I continued to mention that this would be forced upon players who otherwise may not want it. Quality of life still hasn't improved, it's much worse. As the same logic you apply to your points applies to those who move from "the bottom" to "the top". To put it a bit better, you may want to see it as an increase for the lower CR player, but once they get out of that tier of content and realize that they have to continue to run the same content they just got out of, they will have differing opinions of what should or shouldn't be done about it. To me, the best way to look at this angle is feats; players have to go back to get them, as they increase the amount of SP they have, and people put a lot of emphasis on SP. As you've stated, at least, I remember it being you, though it could have been someone else and honestly at this point it's much too late to go back and look, so we'll just say that it has been stated, there are leagues that have SP requirements. Now, those don't translate exactly the way they sound like they do, what leagues are looking for are people who are playing the game and not buying it. People who have put effort into their characters. People who care about the game. It may seem like just a number, but that's just the quickest shorthand to write out all that... and shout and LFG have character caps. Oddly enough, the character cap for the forums is 12,000, in case you were wondering.

No, I did not miss your point, but perhaps you missed mine.

Your previous post, and the post I quoted here, both say the same thing. The t3 doesn't matter, because that's where they are "supposed to be".

My point is, if two random peeps run a duo together, from a random queue... they should have equal say on how to run things. Anyone that says otherwise, is saying the lower peep doesn't matter.

Now when you say that you don't care about them in the context of this debate (or discussion) you ARE saying what I quoted. That the only value the t3 means to some veteran players is that the t3 is "ammunition" for their one sided arguments.

You are correct there. It was me that mentioned the Leagues that have SP requirements. I had shared the experience of how the league I was in refused to run content with me because my SP was too low (in their eyes). Once they found out I was a good player (even with low SP), they wanted to run stuff with me.
Which is why I have tried to maintain a "knowledge outweighs SP" stance. Peeps can basically buy SP now. Not all of them have the knowledge.

I've run a lot of alts. I've been through the content ladder many times in a few different ways. I can say from my own experiences with both lower toons and higher toons running lower tier content, that something needs to change with the current setup. More-so now that there are 9 different tiers. (more than 9 if you count elites and events)

As far as the character cap for typing in forums? I was curious. I figured it was over 9000

And in your opinion, how many squeaky wheels have left? and how many show up, and leave?
I know that we don't have access to Daybreaks' database to look at those metrics... but... Do you feel like this game is dying off?

This game is getting older, more content is being added. At what point does the older content need to be changed, to be more encouraging/enticing to the new peeps?

It's a slight tangent here, but if I go to an established game, something that's been around a long while... I know there are going to be OP peeps around. I leave when I come across OP hoodlums. Wanna bet there are others like me? Look back to my posts about KOTOR, and how the OP hoodlums were wrecking things. Peeps leave when hoodlums ruin things.

Actually incorrect.

Neither player has the right to anything in a random queue and the natural state of the game prevails.

You're trying to enforce your view though and push stat clamping you're trying to alter the natural state of the game to suit yourself im simply saying overall it's fine how it is, not fine in the sense it's perfect but that its close enough.

You're suggesting it should be changed to suit a minority which is is actually preposterous why would you fundamentally change the game because 1 out of 100 people seems to have an issue, that's just asinine.

If you want to form a like minded group use LFG, every time i ask this question it's always evaded by you all, I'm yet to even remotely see an acceptable answer to this.

If you don't want random people impacting your experience then stop randomly queuing it's that simple.

I mean heres the irony right, you won't use LFG now but what do you think will happen when you clamp all content?

You'll just blind queue huh? News flash have you tried blind queuing relevant content at times???? It's rather hit and miss! Why do you think end game players use LFG.......

And you want to shift that experience to all content... what a joke... and honestly what's truly tragic is you don't even seem to see it....

Veterans also equally leave when you start screwing with the game to oil a few squeaky wheels you're just better off throwing away.

I don't really need to follow this tangent, but since we're talking about it; it's not exactly about the number. People leave this game for many reasons, people stay for many reasons. As far as I can tell, the Devs have addressed that the game is getting older, that older content is becoming more of a chore than it is fun. That's why they continue to make things easier for people, while of course spending money, because business is business. The CR skip tokens are a prime example of this, Event content is a prime example of this. They clearly want people to continue to progress towards the content they are making and future content. They obviously do not want people "stuck" in older content. Honestly, if there was something I could think of that would help you achieve your goal, I'd offer it to you. Everything I can think of though creates more problems than the (sorry to say) small stresses that it alleviates. I don't think there are many people in this game that wouldn't slow down if you asked them nicely though.

I know it was brought up already, but the higher CR players don't always want to be the crutch that gets leaned on. Maybe they aren't as good as their CR suggests and getting blamed for a wipe in Dox for not being OP enough is just as hurtful as being run through an instance too fast.

Personal note; I myself have literally 'carried' 3 other 260+ characters through older content, because they just weren't as good as I was. That's not trying to brag, but I've seen more of my fair share of things like that, a lot more than I've ever had someone ask me to slow down.

Relax a second, there's no need to escalate. I get it. They've all been ignoring and deflecting the hard questions. Let's not escalate things. There is a very simple reason why they can't or won't answer the questions, and it's because they don't have one. You and I both know this, there's no reason to get hostile. I wrote a 3 page essay and all that I got back was a quote taken out of context, and what I hope was a sincere thank you for my time.

They are hard questions to answer though, and what a lot of people don't realize is that these are the questions you should be asking about an idea you have about anything. Who would get the most use of this? Who would benefit from using this? Who would not use this? Who would be negatively impacted by this? How many working and moving parts are involved in this? These are questions that have to be answered in order to have a productive idea. You can't just say "this is my idea, make it happen".

All I've seen in this thread is a bunch of "I want it, so make it happen" without any sort of evidence or compelling argument that it would be needed or useful. If they were answering the questions instead of deflecting, or "throwing shade" as was accused earlier, then they may have been working towards a completed idea. Something the Devs might read and say "Oh snap, that'll work and wouldn't interrupt gameplay for anybody and everybody wins." As I said earlier, you can't just say "everybody wins" and make it true, you have to convince people. Answer the questions, complete your idea. Opposing opinions aren't meant to shut down conversation, but to make you think of things you may not have thought of yourself.

EDIT: I did say the point was defeated, and it is, logically. They have yet to prove to anyone that what they are proposing would work out. The concerns that have been brought forward are, even if not your opinion of them, valid concerns. Actually outweighing the positives that would be brought by a simple quality of life improvement for lower CR players, who would eventually become the higher CR player in each situation, causing the same people in which you hope to help, even more problems later.

Double edit for pronouns. It obviously misconstrued the meaning.

it was and still is sincere.

I'm glad, as I do genuinely want to help.

I had an idea that instead of a stats clamp, why not give old content the "event" mode treatment, but then being buffed to the benchmark of scaling instances isn't exactly going to stop people from feeling weak. Being buffed to CR 148 isn't really "helping" someone who's completely trashing the place.

So then I thought, what if, instead of the instance being the benchmark, why not the maximum CR in the group? You get blind qued into a CR 100 instance, and you are CR 102, you get a CR 103, and a CR 100, and a CR 262. So the 3 lower CRs get buffed to 262, and the instance itself gets the health pools and damage of adds and trash buffed by 2, and the bosses by 4. That way, everybody gets to feel useful, and instead of dragging people down, you'd be putting people up, which is what event content does. You wouldn't have to change any of the rewards system, as people would still be in their own relevancy windows, while receiving "a god buff". There are some serious kinks in this though; people would use it to que with higher CRs for that god buff, something I predict would become the norm, at a serious detriment to those who run the instance without a higher CR, or "as intended". The simple argument would be to use LFG to find higher CRs for the god buff, to feel useful, and since the higher CR would already be "god mode"'ing (this isn't actually a word btw) the instance, it's not really a detriment, right? It would make older content a relative joke, as everyone would be facerolling it, and people may quit because it's not engaging or fun to "roll the entire game".

I know there are more problems with it, but it has less problems than the proposed stats clamp.

The problem I keep running into is a lot of it is based on "feelings" which if I'm being literal, you *should* feel weaker, because you *are*. The attitude should be the want to become stronger, not to make the weak feel stronger than they are, or the strong feel weaker than they are. I want to build people up, but I don't want to just hand them things. I know that high CRs can, and do, do that sometimes, but I don't think it's as widespread as some think it is.

Perhaps it's just time for me to drop this.

It's all futility. Even if I were to lay out a 'perfect' plan, give examples of how and why it would work, show how it would increase player retention, and create revenue for the game... it would all be for naught.

There is this concept called "chain of command". It is more than just: a peep has and idea, and the devs agree or disagree with it. Much more than a two step process. Any idea must be run up the 'chain of command' so to speak... and if it someone higher up the chain decides that they don't like it, the idea doesn't get implemented. Plain and simple.

So, I have given up. No more from HalfromTynon here in this thread. Have a nice day.

My bluntness wasn't intended to be perceived as a desire to escalate hostilities