Fire's AM vs WM

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Lt Skymaster, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Korlick Loyal Player

    Thank you, im glad ive been helpful.

    Figure out is not difficult. I mean...you just have to read the power descriptions and pay attention to whats your AM.
    For fire the AM is cast power being able to move. The only powers that are allowed to do this are those with a cast-bar, like Fireburst, Flame Cascade and Mass Detonation.
    But with the movement-AM there was also a new PI that made Mass Detonation hit harder than ever: Volatility (a part of the AM, just like the power return mechanics).
    From those 3 powers, 2 were in charge to apply Volatility to increase damage: Fireburst and Flame Cascade. And 1 were the one that benefits from it: Mass Detonation.

    So technically, its not that Mass Det works better than anything else with Movement. Movement is just an addition to the AM built around Mass Detonation.
    • Like x 3
  2. JimsArcade Well-Known Player

    Testing. Lots and lots of testing. Me personally, I set aside about 5 hours every week after any changes are made that affect Fire. After this last GU, I've gone through about a dozen AM loadouts/rotations to try to maximize damage. In the end, if my resulting loadouts aren't identical to what other people are posting, they're very close. With such a narrow list of moves that work with Fire's AM or WM, it's not hard to see why many people are using similar loadouts: whether they're getting them online or developing them on their own.
    • Like x 1
  3. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    Exactly as other said, you get the best loadout by testing, the best loadout will be the one that you know to use the best, and well I personally use the combat log analizer to check out the loadouts and rotation which one does more damage consistently, and that's how i've gotten my loadouts.
  4. Cajaritotutututu Well-Known Player

    Lt Skymaster, for real the way to go with fire am, is using burnign determination, why?, because it activates volatility and thermal absorption at the same time (it aso applies burning on mid range up to 8 targets).

    Mass D inconsistence dmg: it is true because the critcal ability chance is applied to each "might" hit so yeah u sometimes can hit 10 times ina row with a 30k critic, like u can hit 10 times ina row with a normal 7k dmg, but using tricks like the omac trinket, having a rage, nature or Hl user in the group giving u the 10% crticial ability chance form their group buff it does helps, makes the critical dmg more consecutive.

    Flame cascade: very usefull if u dont want to loss thermal absorption and volatility, when u are using burning determination, both effect will end and the same time, so if u get stunned while casting mass d, in the "recast" u will loss boith effects, but u can keep both if u use flame cascade even if not against a burning target.

    Fireburst: is great but is midrange, can be hard to use on high lvl content. 4 hits, miimum dmg on sparring is 2k each max is 5k each with 7.4+ might (fiery weapon activate). It is very good on safe situations when u can just spam ur power on mid range, u can go for massd -> fireburst->massd->fireburst......

    TL;DR version
    overall the Fire am is good (not op as nature, ice or gadgets) if u mod with pure might it can have the same dmg potential or a bit greater than the wm fire rotation that includes: inferno-clipped-fiery weapon, overheat, robot sidekick, volcanic calamity, wm combo->expotaneous combustion.
    Finally my opinion is that mass-d needs a revision on its critical dmg chance, all that fire needs if u want it "OP".
  5. Guilty_iNNOCENCE8o8 New Player

    It really doesn't matter what loadout the op is using to attain his goal of this thread, which is, to compare Fire AM to fire WM- all you need for either is:
    Burning->fiery weapon->wm combo->spontaneous combustion for WM &
    Burning->fiery weapon->thermal absorption->volatility->mass detonation:
    The results wil still be the same: consistent dps with wm vs inconsistent dps with am. Am is good, just not ggood as wm. Wm burst kills quick before the am can cast a mass det. after set up. And mass det is inconsistent. I need to run tests takimh down numbers and charting it myself, I run am almost exclusively now(frankly because wm is boring, played out, and too easy).

    And absorb heat is better to use (in alerts and raids, maybe not sparring dummy testing) than burning det. Don't listen to anyone saying otherwise.
  6. Mint Stiletto Loyal Player

    Flame cascade slows down damage a whole bunch since you get stuck in animation a 2-3 times an instance and can't do anything for a while.
    [IMG]
  7. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    Lol yeah i've seen that bug, it happens with cryo foam too for gadgets aparently. That's another reason why i don't use the am.
  8. xDxPxSx New Player

    how do you get the combat analyzer to work? I cant seem to figure it out been trying for hours now :/
  9. Srone Well-Known Player

    Mass det is inconsistent but when it hits .... Makes me smile lol .. Another look at fire advance mechanic
  10. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    Ok here is what i got from multiple times I tried.

    For single target:

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    As you can see the incosistency still perdures and again as many people have said it, the problem lies in mass det.
    And well also that my single target AM loadout apears to be slighlty better than this one. I used the same exact rotation and loadout as he explains in the video.


    For multi target:
    [IMG]

    That is the best result I got, It probably outdpses my AM loadout for Multitarget, It's clearly because of the use of overheat which does dots in an AOE next to your target, which the robot sidekick, don't. But due to the inconsistency of the crits I can't asure you that one loadout is better than the other.

    But I still think that not using volcaninc calamity results in dps loss since you can get easly 22k ticks if you throw it with a quick WM like brawling.

    The sad part again is that you won't get consistency with this loadout and while you can have that nice DPS once you'll get a bad one next time. And as you can see it still doesnt outdps WM.

    It can maybe outdps WM in like 1 out of 10 runs or something like that. So if you want to have fun and try your luck go with AM. If you prefer consistency go with WM.

    Something that is really fun while doing this is when going to the new sparing targets with limited health, you'll see how with WM they almost die at the same time while due to the crit incositency with Mass det when using AM they die at different times.
  11. ACW37162 Loyal Player

    Thank you for taking the time to run through it and post it I appreciate it
    • Like x 1
  12. Minecrawler New Player

    Were you using same weapon in both cases? If you are fast enough clipping solar flame your damage out would definitely be better, or you can try clipping rifle grenade if you are having problem with solar flame, either way if you are not using your weapon in your rotation you are basically throwing away your 2400 precision. You should also try Overheat in your AM rotation.
    Wont disagree with your conclusion though. Fire AM sucks and that's the way it'll always be.
  13. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    Yes I was using the same weapon. I did tried a few times by clipping solar flame with mass det for some reason didn't worked as well as I thought it would, the dps wasn't doing it . I can show you with another chart, altough I'll have to do it again . But yeah It disapointed me since i thought like you it would do more damage. Maybe clipping rifle grenade would work better since it's a faster animation.

    And I know I do my clipping fast enough since if you see my WM rotaton i clipp solar flame with overheat.

    As for using Overheat, the problem is that you either choose the supercharge or Overheat you can't choose both, unless you use absorb heat but you'll need to use then flame cascade to set up volatility. And In my opinion you're better with the supercharge that if you do it correclty it wil do ticks for 22k or more. Plus with the new mechanic that mass det gives your supercharge fills up really quick.

    Plus i showed in my last chart overheat is only usefull for multiple target in single target you're better off with robot sidekick.
  14. Nemeses Prime Dedicated Player

    Ok, i am tired to try explain for the people, let me say about Fire's Am.

    THE PROBLEM WITH FIRE'S AM IS THE INCONISTENT DAMAGE OF MASS DETONATION.

    I tried several loadouts, and i will say the problems about anyone, and please guys you need to think about:

    FW = Fiery Weapon
    OH = Overheat
    FC = Flame Cascade
    FB = Fireburst
    BD = Burning Deternination
    MD = Mass Detonation
    SC = Spontaneous Combustion
    VC = Vulcanic Calamity
    AH = Absorve Heat
    WF = Wildfire
    MS = Meteor Strike

    Some prpblems with the mechanic, if you put 2 diferent types if burning, like Inferno with one of the other burning like BD, WF, MO, Enflames after the time of Normal DOT, even if you have to DOTs, they become just one after the mechanic increase the time of the burning caused by Volatility. So you lose DPS.

    1) Inferno; FW; OH; BD; FC; MD; - The problem in this loadout is the cooldown of BD. When the enemies are down, and you need to move to another point, you don't have the a way to recive the power back from BD. because it will be is cooldown, and after stated the rotation, you will be out of power until MD.

    2) Inferno; FW; AH; OH; FC; MD; - This loadout has a little problem if you can't be able to set enemies in burning because just inferno do this. If you change inferno to WF, you problem will be the DOTs from WF, that are crap near to Inferno. OH has a good DOT, but if the enemies split.... you will lose DPS.

    3) Inferno; FW; BD; WF; FC; MD; - This loadout has a good potential to set enemies in burning, but WF overwrite damage from BD and vice versa. So, you will lose DPS. And with BD isn't ready, you cannot recive power back.

    4) Inferno; FW; AH; WF; FC; MD; - This is the best loadou I found with MD, but the DOTs from WF isn't good, and the problem with the "missing" Dot caused by the mechanic make this loadout not good at the DOTs. The only good point is you can set the enemies into burning easy and start the mechanic of power back with AH.

    Then, I tried every loadout giving up of MD and using FB. but wasn't good, because FB is more slowly, so i can do 3 MD agains 2 FB. If FB has the same casting and the cooldown not be LOCKED until a second, FB will be a good choice.

    I tried to use MS in place of WF in the loadouts, and the damage was worst beause sometimes the enemies "evade" the attack from the sky.

    In all this loadout I tried to use at leat 1 combo of WM or HB clipping at solar flare, or just using powers.

    And the last loadout I was tested is this:

    inferno; FW; WF; OH; AH; FC; - I gave-up from MD, and using FC like a crazy, and the feelling was good about the DOTs, because FC works like a DOT, and I just need to use AH one time, then renew the DOTs when are ready. In this loadout you never use your weapon.

    In ALL my tests, WM do much more damage......

    When I see a video in youtube about someone trying to use Fire's Am I think, poor guy....

    And people need to understand about Fire's AM, OR YOU USE WM OR USE AM! You cannot mix. Because one simple thing, MD or FB has a Cast time that as similar to the cast from a WM, but without any damage. Will be like 10k from AM against 18k from WM, so in Fire case, WM is beast and Am is crap.
    • Like x 1
  15. ??? Well-Known Player

  16. Starbrand Dedicated Player

    I think Lt Skymaster is utterly wrong, he is insane and cant tank too...

    OOPSSS... MT. :D

    Besides the questions he pointed, try to see how FIRE cannot produce good DPS as ICE... and they are "twin powers".

    Tanking with Fire is more... INTENSE than Ice... so it should have a more INTENSE DPS too, something riskier, but with more reward too...
  17. Lt Skymaster Dedicated Player

    I can see the love between leaguemates, Thanks star :D

    Besides that you're right lol
    • Like x 1
  18. ApolloMystique New Player

    I dont know why this is still an argument...everyoe knows fire's am is inferior in comparison to other powers...
  19. Guilty_iNNOCENCE8o8 New Player

    And this is okay?? Forget that. I pay to play, and according to SOE, it's "play your way" right? So no, this is not okay. I pay to play my way, the way I choose to play better not be ripped from me due to a broken mechanic. Needs fix.
  20. ApolloMystique New Player

    If u know me...by no means am I saying it is ok...it NEEDS to be fixed...I was addressing the ppl that try to convince oyhers that fire's am is on par with others...EVERYONE knows it is bad...the faster we acknowledge this, the faster we can get these devs to FIX it...im with u 100%...I wanna play my way...but not when my way involves an inferior power/mechanic
    • Like x 1