Fire vs Ice vs Earth

I will be asking you to make sure i'm doing it right. I do good earth dps but I think i need some work in the tank department.

Always happy to help Earth tanks. We are an endangered species lol. Your loadout looked great and is almost an exact copy of the one I use. I run Gem Shield/Amazonian Deflection(for ops)-Shards-Earthen Grip-Epicenter-Jackhammer-Unstoppable.
I do the same thing you do with Epicenter->Unstoppable->Jackhammer. I choose shards over Totem for the controlled juggle. I like to choose when I juggle and add, but totem is good for that constant aggro and knockdown. I like Amazonian Deflection for Ops because its a pain to block in those things so AD lets me block and stun and basically take very little damage. Gem Shield I switch on and off. Its good for using when you get knocked down, but the damage absorption is wonky sometimes. Sometimes it feels like a god mode shield and other times it feels like a pile of dust swirling around me doing nothing lol. You seem to have a good grasp on what to do as Earth though

thanks

This actually gave me an idea for Acrobatics. Lunge, then use Backflip instead of rolling backwards. Since Fire has a snap taunt effect, this should work just as well as using a power then rolling backwards. The only question is, do I have enough space for my loadout?

Hello Alpha, Nightmare Kosmos and Drift Hazard. I actually had stopped responding here for a while because I was walking from one class to another and I was also reading the guide Alpha had posted http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/ground-breaking-guide-to-earth.690/ there and it is VERY good and in depth. Gives good descriptions for Earth not just as a tank but as a DPS as well. +1 Alpha for the guide. Definitely a must read for those interested in the powerset.

Alpha, I noticed you said in your most recent post here that you use Amazonium Deflection and Gem Shield interchangibly. Is this due to AD being better than GS, because it is more consistent, or some other aspect of it?

Also, what other iconic powers do you use? I'm sure the first two power points everyone spends, regardless of their role, are the two innates for their own role (tactical genius/nanoweave armor/wisdom of solomon/etc.) but are there any other powers or innates you would recommend? For instance, why choose AD over HL shield? Would you use Mesmerizing Lasso, or just a movement-based pull for long range? etc.

EDIT: another question I always want to ask but always manage to forget: in terms of stats, which of the two has priority for a tank. Is it health or is it defense? (I know health is how much damage it takes to KO you and defense is a number used to see how much damage you actually take. I mean, I have enough SP to spec into all of the tank stuff, but out of sheer curiousity, which one should a new starting tank focus on ?)

I use Dual Pistols for my fire tank. It may not be as good for CC which Kris recommends, but it's one of the best for (re)positioning purposes, especially thanks to Slip Shot. Rifle can simulate this too but I'm a fan of Dual Pistols' combo system so it gets my vote. ;D

Normally, I use its normal ranged attacks for moving though. I hit the target constantly while strafing left or right. When the position is right or I need to move out quickly, I just hold the ranged button for a quick Slip Shot, but I start using the range attacks again. I do this even if we're on melee range, mostly because using melee doesn't let you move left or right. This is quite useful for tanking certain bosses who don't have a lot of AoE attacks: you could just change your position and keep their attention while your melee DPS'es attack them from behind without worry of getting hit.

Intimidating glare is good for dom. Earth tanks need dom. And this question is for alpha is the hardlight shield any good in iconic?

That's an interesting way of looking at it and using your favorite weapon, regardless of what the majority of the community says is the "right" weapon to use. And if it works for you, then sir, more power to you! sure, you might be losing out on the added innates of using a melee weapon, but if dual pistols are your favorite and you can get your job done with them, then nobody should tell you otherwise

forgot about that one! I forgot there was a Dom. innate that tanks should pick up. Although... some suggest avoiding it because your gear will get you to the Dom. level necessary to control the adds in the higher content and add the power point to another power in your power trees for more variety in your loadout. How do you guys feel about this way of thinking?

EDIT: spelling.

Amazon Deflection, while it doesn't completely absorb all damage and roots you in place, is the best shield in the game for PVE while used properly. For the six seconds it's active it absorbs far more damage overall than any other shield in the game save for possibly Reflect in <T4 content.

The drawback is that it roots you unless you jump-cancel it, and you can get knocked out while casting it.

For Earth I think it is the most dependent on Dom then the other 2 tanks. Dom is one of the key factors to your tanking as Earth in addition to your Absorb. Besides your 25% Absorbtion each time you use a power your Dom is added to your Defense and Toughness. While with the other 2 tanks Dom helps but isn't really needed. Both can still tank fairly decent without stacking Dom. With earth tanks your Dom is working for you 100% of the time while the other 2 tanks only get milage out of dom part of the time.

Roughly you can get 8-14% extra dmg mitigation in t4 tank gear with t4 mods depending on how crazy you go with Dom Stacking. And that applys to pve and pvp.

Yeah they need to update the tool tip and fix some targeting issues with it because it says provides control resistance and sometimes if you target a flying enemy or an enemy that is being juggled and use it your character jump cancels out of it without you jumping. Other than that I like it because its basically like you are blocking but you can't be block broken great for ops.

Coconuts I use AD for ops and Gem Shield for all other things. I hated the PvP mechanics being introduced into PvE espeically in ops. Tanks got the bare end of that update so I run AD for ops and gem shield for like gates, prime, foses ect. As far as other innates for earth I always have enough to get AD, Heatlh, Dom, Defence and 1 other of your choosing. I usually get the power innate for the little extra power pool or one of the damage innates.

Fire also uses dom heavily with 2.2 pts of health being added for every dom. My dom on my Earth tank is sitting at 1016 and my defense is at 4095(Still haven't gotten a second tank ring) so I get over 5k defense when I use a power and the absorption on top makes Earth one of the best hit takers. You take the least amount of damage definitely as an Earth tank than any other tank. We just don't have any shields like Ice or Healing like Fire. I would like to see our dom be used for more than just adding defense possibly adding health like fires does as well to make up for our lack of shields and healing.

TBH i would hate to see them change earths mitigation it has. As the game progresses Earth is set up to be the best tank option as we get harder and harder hitting content. Earth doesn't need the health or shield gimmicks because it has pure mitigation if it had more it would be borderline OP or the current mechanic is had now would be nerfed to compensate for bonus health or shields.

Kristyana mentioned a lot of the stuff I was gonna say (I'm guessing he remembered our discussion on the previous forum).

Please read both pages 1 and 2 in both of the following links for info about Earth and comparisons with the other tanking powersets. Pay attention to Impact's, Kris', and my own comments.

http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc-old/posts/list.m?topic_id=57760
http://forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc-old/posts/list.m?topic_id=57109


A bunch of small things, mostly directed at Kris and Alpha:

1) As Kris said, Earth is SOOOO easily dual-specced. You can fully spec into both roles (meaning all DPS stuff, all Dom, Health, and Def inates) with only 128 SP. But Alpha hasn't even mentioned that in his guide. And since you'll be DPS'ing most of the time, since tanks are superfluous in most content, it's VERY important to be able to dual-spec powers and SP. That way you can just switch gear and hit "T" to be a fully functional DPS/Tank.

2) I just checked Alpha's guide, and while it's a great guide, honestly he should just delete the "Possible Loadouts and Playstyles" sections. I'll post an analysis on that thread in a sec, but basically the tanking and DPSing loadouts he's suggested are ineffective.

He's also failed to include Localized Tremor, your best AoE melee clipping power (due to the Dazed double-tick) in the "DPS Powers and Their Uses" section. He also hasn't included it in the "Tank Powers and Their Uses" section - which is nuts, since it will be your best AoE knockdown as soon as the Devs fix that immunity glitch with Shards.

3) Modding. That's another thing Alpha messed up in his guide. The socket affinities for tank gear are flat-stats, not crit chances/magnitudes like in troller/healer/DPS gear. And those flat stats are based upon lvl 3 mods. With the current lvl 4 mods, and even more so once lvl 5 mods are released, it's FAR better to mod your tank gear with Dom&Health 4 in every socket, regardless of affinity.

4) For my dual-spec loadouts and strategies, read those links I posted above.

One change from the DPS dual-spec I posted in those links is that I DPS with WD now instead of Totem. And for a pure-DPS spec, you'd be using Debris Field instead of Crystal Golem.

5) Phase Dodge is better than Amazonian Deflection. Read Impact's analysis in the links above.

6) Low Pressure is finicky. I absolutely HATE that delay. A lot of times in combat, it's not practical to stay in the same spot facing that same target in order for the correct target to get pulled. You might be kiting stuff around, in which case Low Pressure messes up SO often. So if you're Fire, go with Lasso. Not only is it instant, it also CC's the target - which Low Pressure doesn't do. Hell, even Tornado Pull is better than Low Pressure since it hasn't got that delay.

7) Earth is perfectly viable for tanking (IMO, even MORE viable in top-level content than Fire, and certainly Ice), and the fact that more people don't tank or DPS with Earth is a sin. DPS'ing properly with Earth is nearly up there with Gadgets and HL - I've tested it in Prime against well-known Gadgets and HL DPS to prove it. Tanking with Earth is also awesome - and I'm surprised Kris or Ivy Bird haven't started extolling the virtues of Earth yet.

I'm in the process of leveling an earth tank, and tbh i am loving it, I'm thinking about maining this character over my gadgets for pve and pvp purposes. I love gadgets alot but it seems like thats the only power people play besides from HL, Earth imo is a awesome power and i can't wait 2 get to 30 to really use him the way i want to

Earth is an amazing DPS and Tank powerset. I truly don't get why more people don't use it. I switch between Fire and earth all the time simply because I love both powers. Earth can potentially have a constant stream damage with the right group. It's the one power set where I feel weapon combos should be at a minimum.

For PvP i find a pet loadout a lot better for power management. I may like aftershocking better but the amount of power it uses even if you stick to the 3 aftershock can be bad for you in certain encounters. Having a pet keeps constant mitigation and therefore less need to use powers besides a shield often. Add Reinforce to that and then you have increased damage. This is where I think going for your weapon combos shines. I think Fire and Earth are in a good place right now . I think Ice needs a tweak or two to its tanking mechanics for the impending future.

If this is true, they really need to fix it. That dam crystal breaks a LOT just after doing the LONG animation (ok, its not terribly long but still). I could have sworn ALL 4 crystals, while up, meant I took no damage. When only 1, 2 or 3, I took LESS damage than normal (I assumed some of the damage was "absorbed" by the crystal. Can we get some dev confirmation on how the crystals are supposed to work? And, yes I am aware that ALL powers draw agro, even heals if my elec healer is any indication. But I was told, perhaps wrongly, that Might-based damage gets the baddies attention better/longer. If this is not so, does anyone have good advice for maintaining agro as any tank? Would be much appreciated.

localized tremor can't be taken in a proper earth dps loadout unless you are going to sacrifice a dps iconic.

You need reinforce, you need debris field, you need jackhammer, and you need tectonic break. and a straight down spec will not afford localized tremor.
you're best melee clip is going to be tectonic break. it has insane aoe range and it applies the dazed effect.

as much as i'm enjoying earth dps, it doesn't measure anywhere near gadgets or Light among the top 1% dpsers.

I'd have to say that Obsidianchill's Light dps and OP Scums gadgets would come at least 10-15% higher damage out than me at the end of a raid, prime for certain. I would put electricity dps at about even with earth. If you're in a group with players passing out electricity PIs then you are going to struggle.

keep in mind that Earth's striking stones does not work as intended. there is no DoT applied by using it as the tooltip implies.

This is speaking of Pure DPS of course, not dual spec'd. but then again, with base respec and WT respec who needs to do dual specs anyways?

I disagree with health/dom in every socket regardless of affinity. Go with the color that gives you the affinity if it's health; that will increase your effective HP higher than ignoring it for Health/Dom 4 regardless of the type of tank.

I've also pretty much mastered Low Pressure as the ranged pull if I'm flight. The only time I've ever taken Lasso over Pressure is in a 4-man prime run, but it comes down to personal preference.