Fire Tanking

Discussion in 'Powers, Weapons, and Movement' started by Thunderstrikke, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. Thunderstrikke Active Player

    Hoping to get some advice here. I was a good (great?) Ice tank, rarely getting killed and generally did my job. I recently switched to Fire and have been struggling in top level content (I’m 245, 341 sp). It’s kind weird, in that I easily handle the TT alert, and while my health meter was bobbing up and down, I pretty easily handled the Doomsday raid. However, when I tried running Pan elite, and the two regular titans raids, I was squishy. For the titans raids, we got through them, but I had to be picked up about 3-4 times. But Pan elite, I got one-shoted all over the place (Ultraman one-shoted me when I was blocking with a shield up??); it was ugly (and embarrassing). So I’m hoping some other high level fire tanks can help me out here. I was in Hive elite yesterday with a fire tank and he was hanging just fine, so I know it’s doable. Let me tell you what I’m doing and hopefully you can give me some advice:

    All augments and base mods are dominance (left over from ice)
    Health skill points are maxed (215), with remaining points maxing the two healing crits and about 50ish left for resto.
    All tank gear, fortified blocking and other tank white mods

    Backdraft, Stoke Flames, Burning Determination, Immolation, Hard Light shield, Reignition SC
    So a pull, two heals and two shields (plus another SC heal). For the tougher content, I put the shield up, pull everybody, and block my butt off, only popping up to rotate through the heals / shields and re-pulls. Due to the relative long cooldowns on everything, I watch my health bar and the boss’ head for skulls, and try to save my casts when needed. Obviously, sodas, SC, and supply drop for “uh oh” moments.
    I guess one big general question is, should I be blocking all the time? The tank guild seems to suggest that’s the way to go, but obviously I lose out on the healing and fire souls bonuses if I do that (and my super charge builds very slowly).

    Thanks in advance for whatever help you can provide,
  2. Original Cryo boy Committed Player

    How do you rotate your powers? When I fire tank I clip myself heals together then do a weapon combo clipped with back draft. That usually keeps me up pretty well Then I use hard light shield and immolation to get me back to burning det and stoke flames. You need to be blocking quite a bit on much harder content. If you are going to use a super I suggest eternal flame instead of reignition. I use your lo except with engulf as a ranged pull instead of a super and do fine.

    I've heard a lot of people say fire can't tank the high end raids yet completed Hive E with 2 fire tanks the other day. I think it comes down to rotation of your abilities. Fire doesnt have great oh sh*t buttons. You need to be proactive by clipping both your self heals and using both shields back to back to get your self heals back up. Hope this helps a little.
  3. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Fire can only take high-end stuff by reverting to a turtle tank, not active tanking sadly.
  4. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Don't use any resto as a turtle tank. Spec those 50 into dominance instead. The resto difference for heals is practically meaningless when blocking, whereas the stronger dominance will help your shields more significantly. In fact, you might want to skip a little of the health sp to try to get your dom up to 60, 80 or 100 for the percent increase.
    • Like x 1
  5. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    You should be actively ccing adds between blocks and catching blues. You really need to start using Chronometric Emitters for adds. You pull the adds, and immediately clip the consumable with whatever you want. The consumable has a short cooldown so you can spam in situations with a lot of adds.

    For bosses, try to get as many immunities as you can. You cant just block all the time, you have to be a bit more active.

    Hopefully you know how to read the counter prompts above an enemy's head.
    • Like x 2
  6. Juiceman936 Well-Known Player

    Simply not can active tank. I active tank Hive E all the time. You do not have to block all the time only for counters and skulls. Sometimes when its a lot of adds I block but I release it before my hit counter goes off. So that's pretty quick. Please do not let no one tell you it can't be done. You should definitely have the fortified assault neck mod. I've been called a liar on these forums for saying I've tanked Hive E. Practice the power.

    What I can't understand is ppl say you HAVE to block a lot, but in the traits menu on fire tab, the tank role level 10 description explains the buffs and it does not tell you to block.

    If anyone is a US PS4 villain, I can show you.

    Chaos Syndicate
    • Like x 2
  7. Original Cryo boy Committed Player

    Yeah man I often wonder if these people saying this have actual experience fire tanking. Or if when they say they have fire tanked they mean once or twice before switching powers. I even have this argument over on the fire guide thread. People refuse to believe its possible and when I tell them I just watched 2 fire dps countering deathstroke over and over on our way to beating hive e it gets disregarded. You can active tank as fire. Its a higher skill cap but it can be done.
    • Like x 1
  8. Thunderstrikke Active Player

    Thanks for the advice so far, you given me some things to try out. It would be great if I could get to activate tanking; I do it in the alert and love juggling the cr%p out of the adds, alternating flashpoint and backdraft and having fun (vs turtling and praying, lol)
  9. Juiceman936 Well-Known Player

    Active tanking is very fun. But flashpoint will use too much power in harder instances. Also I don't know how you pull off not using engulf in your loadout. Backdraft is a pull but it's close range
  10. Knarlydude Loyal Player

    You're squishy because you are not setting up your PI first and you are trying to turtle tank.
    below is copied from ^^^^^here^^^^^

    You gain the following benefits while in Tank Role:
    Taunt : When you use a super power, your opponents attack you instead of your allies.
    Fire Soul : Gain +30% Defense while not Blocking. As you directly damage Burning enemies, this bonus increases up to a maximum of +50% Defensewhile not Blocking.
    Player versus Player

    • Like x 1
  11. Knarlydude Loyal Player

    You're also missing a single taunt and your group breakout & CC resistance

    try this

    1. Inferno ( sets up PI at short or long range ) clip with burning determination :)
    2. Burning determination ( heals & set up heals for next ten attacks )
    3. Backdraft ( group pull, heals, bonus heals & knock down if using PI )
    This^^^^^ is also your CC, knockdown breakout & clip when possible :)
    4. Stoke flames ( heals, inreases heals, set ups PI & clips )
    5. taunt ( I use lasso because it's single taunt, pull & stun ) clip your taunts when possible :)
    6. burnout ( group breakout, CC resistance & clips )

    Switch 4 & 5 around according to how you clip animations.
    Dominance & weapons are your friend. :D

    • Like x 1
  12. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    Pick literally any weapon and practice its combos. Every weapon will have its own juggles, stuns, knockbacks and whatever else.
    • Like x 1
  13. L T Loyal Player

    The way mods are now, you're better off with Dominance instead of Restoration, even as a Fire Tank. The Dilustel, Cog, and Sparring AI artifacts all give a % increase for Dominance as you level them, and the Dominance Augments give 20% more Health than the Restoration ones (the Restoration ones give extra power). Health is generally better than Dom for Fire Tanks, so having your health maxed is probably a good thing. If you're not using the artifacts that increase Dom, I suggest ones that increase Health, like the Tetrahedron (+3% at level 80).

    You don't need to use a supercharge, but if you use one I would suggest Eternal Flame instead of Reignition. It's a heal over time instead of a single burst, and more total healing. Other than that your load out doesn't seem too bad. Someone suggested running with the group break-out-- that can be very useful, especially against bosses that sent the whole group flying. Someone else suggested Inferno-- I wouldn't use Inferno for Tanking.

    I use Flashpoint for easy content. Enflame is even better if you want to be active, because it lights things on fire. If you active tank you need to keep your hit count high AND have everything around you on fire. The defense buff doesn't last very long so you're starting from 30% again if you block on skull and have to wait a few seconds.
  14. Thunderstrikke Active Player

    Ok, happy to report this weekend went much better. Felt like a "normal" tank and was taking punishment in higher level content like a champ. I made following changes:

    Moved 100 skill point from resto and health over to dominance. My new load out: engulf, backdraft, hardlight shield, Immolation, burning determination, amazonian deflection. Basically, spam BD to get the heals and keep aggro. Rotate HLS and IM to keep a shield up 80% of the time (and block the other 20%). I used Burning D and AD for oh %$^# moments ( PS I love AD, long cooldown but you're like indestructible for those few seconds; I basically use it like a supercharge). So either 1) the changes make me that much better 2) I got stuck with bad healers on those few early runs and maybe blamed myself too much.

    Quick note - my remark on the flashpoint was a "battle tank" mode I've been using for the TT alert. I've found that I'm "comfortably indestructible" in there with just a couple shields, so I use the loadout for other (more fun:) stuff. Have to try the enflame thing.
    • Like x 2
  15. ThePhilosophy Loyal Player

    Im glad its going better. Fire is really intimidating for a lot of people. Thats great you actually want to take on the challenge instead of forgetting it completely
  16. QALLENONE New Player

    With chrono emitters and a good healer on you who actually pays attention to the adds and watches your health bar like it’s their own you can just make it. If you are tanking the side with more adds your group has to be perfect with their orbitals because if you got unlucky and got 2 wasps or a medic with boss and somebody dies without killing the adds quickly you will be dead within 10 seconds. You can stun adds all you want and do your weapon combo for cc while they’re burning but when you get overwhelmed you simply can’t pay attention to all 7-8 adds and a boss who will probably end up one shotting you unless you happen to have hl or immolation off cooldown to prevent the damahe. You can’t heal that... nor can you heal the incoming damage from all the adds hitting you all at once just because you set them on fire. Fire soul does not mitigate damage as if you were earth running brick or even jackhammering which is probably still more reliable than active tanking with fire.

    Fire soul is a pretty garbo passive because you can’t really maintain the counter while directly holding 7-8 adds all at once while attacking, heals are helpful, yes but there’s no way you can keep your hp bar manaheble without kiting the adds to avoid incoming damage. 30% defense is just weak and so are the heals, way better off blocking, popping heals despite losing your 50% bonus and just let your healer do the heavy lifting. You can still rotate shields while blocking and clipping heals into backdraft and chrono but directly taking 7-8 adds plus a boss to the face while they’re all clumped up together and are all hitting you at once is just silly. Probably will have a better chance at survivability at melee fighting the Conqueror in dps role. 30% passive just doesn’t cut it especially against burst damage. Too much gabling as far as that yo-yo like health bar goes. You can heal untill out of nowhere you get blown up to shreds or your healer got distracted for 2 seconds.

    Like I said it’s doable with fire and you have to get somewhat lucky with the adds. I’m not saying you didn’t tank it but it’s just way easier with any other tank other than fire because I know, had I just gone dps and there was another tank and someone else fire tanking; if I had 100 runs with that group, any fire tank would die at least 3 times more often than any other tank there is. I personally would get pissed off if someone actively tanked as fire because it’s too hard and risky no matter how great of a player you are. Although you might just make it alive if you are god tier fire tank who jjust blocked a skull attack followed by a few hits by the wasps if your heale lagged out for a second or two. It is doable and you might be the GOAT as far as your timing and gaming skills go but guess what? Any average or mediocre Joe can do it much more comfortably with any other power while doing less work and putting so much strain on a healer. Long story short, I’d much rather have an average Joe who happens to be ice, earth or atomic if I were to do Hive E 3 times in a row than a skilled fire tank.
    • Like x 1
  17. Juiceman936 Well-Known Player

    Other tanks die too.... I've replaced other tanks at the back door Hive E first boss.

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