Fire AM: Breaking Game-Wide Rules

Ice is not OP anymore and Quantum got nerfed on test server, HL and Nature, well they are the Fotm and Nature is the only power to have 2 AM.

Hi Guys 111 cr DPS here with 145sp,

My experience with our AM mechanic has been one of utter disappointment. I really tried to make it work testing out multiple builds and parsing my combat log using an online parsing analyzer. But based on my parsing logs the highest I was able to get with a full AM rotation with no Weapon Mastery combos is about 7-8k dps. Incorporating Weapon Mastery Combos I brought it up to about 9.3k dps. My current WM rotation parses about 2-3K more than that.

I think that in order for our AM mechanic to work the would have to remove the cast time of Mass Det and increase the damage of our burning PI. Maybe also add a bonus to crit chance and crit dmg with the volatility PI. I would also increase the power return from Thermal absorption or reduce the power cost of all fire powers. Fire is just a really power hungry set.

Depends on you definition of OP. Most of the powers that have an AM in game including those that I mentioned has significantly more DPS potential than fire. It's a fact, and anyone who's equally skilled in fire and one of these powers can confirm this.
Edit: People are still doing insane amount of DPS in test with quantum, not sure what exactly you are saying got nerfed.

Ice is "no longer OP" only because other powers are above it by a slight margin. If those powers were ever to get nerfed wouldn't that make Ice OP?

My point is that the only reason it's not technically OP is because it has competition. Not because It's damage isn't out of line slightly

Bumping up.

I strictly run the AM and while there have been some minor (repeat, MINOR) tweaks to MD, it still needs some love. I agree with what was said about FB being the close range version of MD, and MD should share the PI effects that fireburst has (frostbitten, electrified take more damage).

I'm loving the influx of likes guys. I very much appreciated and hopefully the Devs do as well. Let get some bump ups as well though. The longer this thread stays relevant the better the chances of Fire having it's inconsistencies fixed.

Shameless bump.

As long as these issues reside in fire this thread will always be relevant.
edit: also please feel free to post in this thread to keep it up. A post every couple days should keep it relevant

make fire burst a true channeling power (made uninterruptable by channeling base mod) that alone would be a big help...maybe a better power return when might based characters WM...never understood why we get penalized and get 1/2 the energy back others do

This accurate info. They implemented some needed changes to help the power back side of the AM and simplified the setup process but failed to address the elephant in the room. /stares at Mass Detonation.

Great post! Fires AM needs a small adjustment/buff if we are using cast times. I personally think that absorb heat(AH) and burning determination(BD) were a terrible choice for thermal absorbtion. U have to jump cancel AH to start cause of a long annimation, then cast a long animation for fireburst(FB) or flame cascade(FC) to get volitility, and finally cast a 2-3sec animation for mass det(MD). Thats ALOT of time being wasted just so i can hit something between 5-25k. The numbers are inconsistant, the casts are too long, and the idea of using BD or AH to start makes me cringe as a dps. Our power back is also terrible when compared to other powers. I suggest u either buff fire dps damage out, give us viable power back, get rid of long cast times that do less damage than an explosive shot WM, and/or change our thermal absorbtion powers to something else useful. I hope the devs look into fire dps soon and make a few useful tweaks to it like the did to the tanking side. Fires AM(as well as earth, sorc, mental) cannot compete with other dps' AM. We are stuck using WM as our only option.

Well see, it really isn't our only option since technically we have an AM. There are discrepancies with it, but there is still an option besides WM.

The mentality that most who play (to no fault their own) is to be competitive. It makes the game fun for most but at the same time this huge issue arises regarding balance. That's the issue imo, each updated power has showed DPS potential and capability. Now for every single power to perform as well as the latest and greatest, it would take much more buffs and nerfs to get it closer. True balance is a myth, and the cycle will never stop of one being better than the other or having more potential than another. We can just continue to share what we feel makes our power underperform with all the other powers as a whole. Eventually the cycle will have found its way into a dying cinder which is the fire player base. Those of us around will finally rejoice should we ever have a leg in the proverbial DPS race.

On topic:
fix fire. Please and thanks

please work on fire for gu46...i want to make my alt a fire dps/tank...but i refuse to do so with this horrible am damage

rage is 46, But your not the only ones who were stuck using weapon mastery, rage was in that same boat but on top of that so is earth ,sorcery and mental so maybe they'll come out and a triple advance mechanic update like they did with mental/light/and ice.

i think the AM is more boring than the other power AMs as well imo. You just spam mass det.... that's it. I'd rather spam a sequence of powers than spam a single power

As has been said about a billion times before the AM would be viable if not for Mass Detonation being so consistently inconsistent...... I was running the T6 solo and getting 3 or 4 17-20k hits in a row followed by a string of 5-7k hits.... The main difference between top tier AM's and powers like fire is consistent pay off at the end of the rotation, oh and AM's shouldn't really require a few dozen soders to get through a solo.

I noticed this when the solo was on Test. I think the difference is CC effects. The crowds in the T6 solo seem largely resistant to knockdown but get stunned fairly easily-- so you breeze through it with quantum, mental, or gadgets AM but struggle with Fire.

You are correct. Gadgets, Mental and Quantum in duos and solos have ways to keep adds off them via stuns. Fire has no such thing and gets beaten up and countered in those instances requiring them to use even more power.

You are right. It isn't really helpful at all.

My wish list:

+ Flame Cascade/Absorb Heat change already announced! Now if your add dies, the power will continue onto another add! Same goes for Heat Vision! Hopefully, they made Heat Vision/Absorb Heat so you can change targets while the power is going.

+ Burning Determination is a tank ability. It shouldn't also be a DPS ability. Switch the AM power to Fiery Weapon or Inferno. Something BOTH DPS and Tanks use.

+ Mass Detonation + Fireburst. Right now the rotation has us doing it four times. If we get four off we should get a 5% bonus for each of those hits. And that's 5% escalated. Using simple math...

1st Hit = 100
2nd Hit = 100 (+ 1st Hit x 5%) = 205
3rd Hit = 100 [(+ 1st Hit x 5%) + (+ 2nd Hit x 5%)] = 420.25
4th Hit = 100 [(+ 1st Hit x 5%) + (+ 2nd Hit x 5%) + (3rd Hit x 5%)] = 756.5

100 + 205 + 420.25 + 756.5 = 1481.75

Thus, it really would be a Mass Detonation. And one crappy number wouldn't necessarily ruin the whole rotation.

This would work with any combination of Fireburst and Mass Det. Two Mass Dets followed by Two Firebursts. A Fireburst followed by two Mass Dets and then another Fireburst, etc..

i agree