Dev Discussion Episode 39: Convergence of Unmaking (Raid)

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by Millbarge, Nov 5, 2020.

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  1. zNot Loyal Player

    Also good point there that nobody will be playing it in 2 weeks because i struggle to find a group to do the New elite raid they really need to merge some servers its just like 2 or 3 groups doing the elite raid in the entire server i play in makes me wanna stop playing the game always the same people doing the elite raids we should have villains and heroes merged and other consols with eachother. This is unplayable and very low populated despite the lock-down and people having more free time.
  2. Yaiba Committed Player

    Half of our group got kicked out of the game after beating Mordu, and we all lost the rewards (we even got them before crash). Then after we logged back, the game said we haven't beaten the last boss.
  3. CrownedSolomon New Player

    The elite version of the raid needs to be made easier so more people can actually beat it. As others have pointed out, there are not many people doing the elite raid because of its difficulty. Once the raid is made easier, I can guarantee you that more people will play the elite version, and as a result, more players will return to the game which they once loved to play.

    Releasing content which is made more difficult per release will just make more people want to quit the game because not everyone is willing to spend money on buying level 200 artefacts or other things which would significantly help them to become a top tier player. Now, this isn't a problem for me since I am a top tier player, but this is rather for those who play the game, dislike the content, but don't ever share their opinions, which is 90% of the game.

    The length of the raid itself is fine - raids should not take hours on end to complete; a quick and simple raid is good enough because people have other tasks to do, such as going to work. The normal version in terms of difficulty is perfectly fine.
  4. zNot Loyal Player

    They need to make the elite raid mechanics easyier on DPS,troll and heals they should enjoy doing their roll and not kite every 5 seconds to avoid a one shot on the other hand tanking should be much harder, elite raids should require 2 Tanks. Tanks are there to survive they should be pressured more the fact that one tank can solo tank elite raids with previous dlc gear proofs that the difficulty is so low for the Tanks in DC currently.
  5. CrownedSolomon New Player


    I agree with what you said. Tanks should not be able to complete the elite raid without any issues on the first day of release with gear from the previous DLC. That being said, support roles and DPS roles should at the same time not have to worry about 1 hit K0 mechanics every few seconds. This is even more annoying in the elite alert, but I won't go in to that on this thread.
    • Like x 1
  6. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    Thus reversing the entire point of "elite" instances, which are intended to be close to impossible to defeat without lots of the new gear.

    If you want easy, stick to the regular version. Or, even easier, the event version.

    (Disclaimer: I've yet to try the raid at all; I'm waiting to hear that it's been made more stable and bug-free.)
  7. zNot Loyal Player

    Well what about tanking difficulty? I as a tank can agree with him that yes Dps troll and heals have a harder job in elite raids and this needs to change! Tanking used to be difficult now its just a shield spamming ice tank meta solo tanking every elite raid solo with previous dlc gear i mean seriously? Where is the skill if the Tank is almost immune to most one shots that kill a dps in a elite raid? Shouldnt the Tank be the one dying since he faces the bosses?

    Dpses in dc are squishy they need to be protected by the Tanks! Or let me say tank since more then 1 tank is in almost never needed probably close to 99% of all elite raids, 2 Tanks are not needed which needs to change asap.

    It should be like this 2 tanks design with high high damaging bosses and multiple one shots towards the Tanks this should be a must in elite raids the primary difficulty in this current elite raid is depended purely on the dps trolls and heals this was the same design they did in FGs e. I hope this will change with the next patch or the next dlc worst case.

    Like i said in the older difficult raids tanking was difficult meanwhile dpsing trolling healing was much easyier and this is the most fun for all rolls i as a tank feel underwhelmed meanwhile the other rolls feel overwhelmed by the difficulty in the current latest elite raids. Tanks are so tanky i feel like the devs need to really know that one tank alone can do especially with the artifacts of us tanks and then artifacts like page of destiny from the healers. If tanking gets more difficult like it used to then more people can enjoy the elite raids since dpses can pass those raids aslong as they got good support rolls.

    When this was on test server i told millbarge to make the fireball abit slower to give dpses more time to move sadly he didnt do it. And now i see plenty of people complaining because only the hardcore groups with 7 smart troll heal and dpses pass the first boss and the whole raid is just about the dpses trolls and heals avoiding one shots while having the risk of dying by a random mechanic every few second meanwhile the tank doesnt need to bother with most of these things and let alone the outgoing damage of the bosses and adds are underwhelming for the solo Tank with wonderverse stats/gear.
  8. zNot Loyal Player

    Exactly if you look at obsidianchills video the elite raid he uploaded today you can see that hes basically having a problem with this fact aswell that he as tank with low cr with previous dlc gear can solo tank all 3 Elite bosses on the first day on release without much problems.

    I really hope they will do something and i have been saying this for weeks now exactly this happened what i was scared off, a solo tankable with previous dlc gear Elite raid defeated on the first day of release.

    And in the elite alert i as a Tank in the last boss dont have to worry about the one shots why? Well they dont do enough damage to kill me. Meanwhile the other support rolls and dpses get one shotted if they dont pay attention every 10 seconds to avoid a one shot. Not fair at all.
  9. zNot Loyal Player

    incase the devs are confused on what to adjust,

    the first boss fight in elite increasing the emerald eyes HP by a great amount is needed they are a threat but they die so quick that they cant even do much and their whole purpose to pressure the Tank is gone

    the other adjustment for this first boss fight is it should be to give people more time to react for the fireball and something to make it easyier for them to see it and it should be good enough for this boss fight, And will make the first boss fight much better for all rolls. The first boss fight is the best one in this raid i would say.

    Second and last boss need more threats to the Tank its way too simple and easy.
    Also I would suggest for future elite raids to design them with the mindset that 2 tanks will tank them.
  10. KneelBeforeZodd Dedicated Player

    The raid lacked testing, elite mostly. Sometimes players were getting koed without a way to be picked up, a few disconnects as well. Normal balance is fine, but elite is way too easy, we needed addtional mechanics such as stunns, maybe debuffs on the tank or harder hitting adds to require 2 tanks for the raid. Right now you can solo tank it pretty easy with last episode gear and low augments, with a elite alert to get gear from at least the elite raid has to be a lot harder so we need gear to get feats.
    Because of the raid difficulty everyone will be done with it in 2 to 3 weeks.

    In my opnion every boss in elite needs a buff (hp, damage) and you should add 1 or 2 really hard elite feats so ppl need to farm at least for a while to be done with instanced content.
    • Like x 1
  11. Jay Smeezy Dedicated Player

    this happened to me as well! I didnt get loot for the last boss and i was naked on every armory i switched to! Then the game kicked me out! Ill post the video tomorrow it is too late to edit!
  12. CrownedSolomon New Player

    Don't get me wrong, I know the entire point of elite is that it's supposed to be more difficult to beat and whatnot. However, when you create content which is aimed at the 1% and alienate the 99% as a result, that will not sit well with the general population. Also added to this issue is the fact that instead of getting a solo or duo mission, we have instead gotten elite versions of the raid and alert, which 99% of the player base will not be interested in playing due to the difficulty. No one wants to spend an hour in an instance, only to disband it at the end; that time could have been better used to progress characters in other means, or to play a different game entirely.

    If they want to release elite content, so be it. However, as mentioned above by other players, you will have the same few groups running it, who once have got what they want from it, will stop. That content then will ultimately become another useless piece of content in the game like most other content is now.
  13. zNot Loyal Player

    What they need to do is make elite raids easyier on dpses most dpses in this game cant even do high damage let alone avoid a one shot mechanic every 10 seconds on ther other hand as i said tanking should be so much harder ,tanks are made to survive not dps the only boss fight in this that has a good design is the first boss but the emerald eyes need more hp and they are solo tankable with trigon and wonderverse stats they need to buff it up as someone else said earlier. The second and last boss are a joke low level of difficulty from a tank perspective.
  14. Stranger Well-Known Player

    Bug Report
    AT 2nd Boss (The Eye), when the cutscene ends (when boss has 70% health), boss directly 1shot most of us.
    You have no time to react.
  15. MsTickle Fate Devoted Player

    People have been making this complaint at least since Origin Crisis and the Paradox Wave raid. That was May 15th, 2013. What's different now?

    That's very gracious of you.

    How is it your problem if other people enjoy doing hard raids more than you do?

    Proposed solution: don't try elite content. Problem solved.

    Meanwhile, you're entirely entitled to note that you find this elite content too difficult and don't want to play it.

    What you're not entitled to do is claim that you speak for anyone else unless you can specifically name them and demonstrate that they elected you spokesperson.

    I could equally claim that "99% of players" disagree with you, but I'm actually aware that I speak only for myself and that I'd just be making a ludicrous claim with no actual basis beyond my imagination.

    You can also try coming back and doing the raid a year from now after you're geared up by two or three or four more DLCs. Whatever. How is this anyone else's problem?
  16. BumblingB I got better.

    Got a chance to run normal on PC and Event on Switch. (We tried normal first but we couldn't get past trigon.)

    The adds are more threatening than the boss fights. Having three or more cyborgs is absolutely punishing. Even in the event version, this was wiping players left and right. (I may have been the only one that knew to lunge on switch.)

    Then there is the fact that it's very short. I don't know if it's nostalgia or what, but raids up to t5 had massive maps and sub bosses and so on. Why was this no longer even thought of. Having only one raid makes this very noticeable.

    There doesn't seem to be a tell to trigon's fireball. I found myself dead and not even sure how to avoid it. The tentacles also not much tell to them for where they will spawn.

    I do think the Emerald Empress and Mordu fights are a lot more enjoyable, because the tells for the mechanics are very easy to understand but not easy to avoid. So you have to pay attention.

    Please I love DCUO so, let this be the LAST time you use the no movement mode for mechanics. This is a superhero game, why can't I use my movement mode?!?!
  17. lllStrichcodelll ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    List of bugs i encountered during elite:

    1st boss:
    • none ~ so far ~

    2nd boss:
    • Just before the cutscene the boss did a laser, killing half of the group
    • You can reenter the fight after you rallied and came back before the cutscene mid-fight (like in DmE)
    • The 4 directional cone attack is not always 90° wich makes it annoying to predict
    • The boss does orbital strikes while out of combat after you wiped
    • Mind control doesn't show properly for other players
    • 360° laser doesn't always show
    3rd boss:
    • The fight starts automatically when someone goes too far on the platform
    • Sometimes the purple balls and the knockback tell dont show at all and sometimes they always do (random)
    • The AoE beneath your feet that turns group members into objects can get attached to pets - making it appear vertical and looking like a giant purple wall
    • After lunging the boss successfully you can still get knocked off the sides (left/right) because the platform is simply too short on those ends. This also happens when lunging from the middle sometimes.
    • The transforming field doesn't get removed during lunge phase, turning players into objects just after they lunged and pin points them on the spot without being able to move away from the next purple ball phase.
    • When you get knocked off you dont always die. Sometimes you die even with full health. There doesn't seem to be a maximum amount of fall-offs to be able to survive since i had it a few times where i get knocked off and die with full health and then survived the next one. (super random)
    • Sometimes when the fight automatically started the boss willl only kill one person and then stop attacking at all. He can be triggered by attacking him again but this could be a bug indication.
    • The rolling fireball always rolls to the left side (looking directly at the boss). The thrown fireball always one hits unless it hits the tank wich it does in 90% of the cases
    • When you switch your armory you turn naked, losing all your styles and then disconnect after max. 5 minutes.
    All of this happened during 1 run. 1!
    Unless i see at least 50% of these bugs adressed i wont play this raid to not encourage this type of content drop any further. Bugs can happen and i get that but this is just out of control. Nobody was begging you to release the episode in this rushed state. In the end its about having fun (even in Elite) and besides the 1st boss i had none so far.
    • Like x 1
  18. lllStrichcodelll ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Feedback for Elite without taking the bugs into account:

    1st boss:
    • overall a nice fight. Would be great to have a red circle around tentacles to indicate their range.
    2nd boss:
    • Fight seems too easy.
    • Maybe add some more orbital strikes that appear randomly all over the phases.
    • Add 0,5 - 1 second reaction time to block the boss' sonic cry attack maybe.
    3rd boss:
    • Reduce the knockback, so that you can't get knocked off the sides after you lunged perfectly.
    • Falling off the platform should instant kill - always - but hen it has to be assured to not knock you off after you played the mechanic right by lunging towards the boss.
    • Let immunity/ group immunity stop the knockback (not ignore it). Apparently its a useless skill for its only purpose.
    • The "Egg bombs" that you lay down while the beam is attached to you should deal way more damage. 50% damage for each bomb to yourself and 33% to anyone too close to it.
    • Increase the reaction time for the knockback a little more since channeling abilites are already having a hard time in this raids prior bossfights.
    • Like x 1
  19. CrownedSolomon New Player

    I am aware that people have been making these posts since the dawn of time. When Origin Crisis was released, and Odyssey beat Paradox Wave and earned a feat in their name, people complained then too. The difference is that unless developers start listening to their players, nothing will improve. As newer, better games get released as time goes on, people will go and play those, leaving this behind.

    As you are probably aware, the company has other games in development, so inevitabily, this game will not get the same attention as it did a decade ago by the developers or the guys in the ivory tower who fund the game with the money we give to them. At some point though, they need to listen to their player base and actually do what needs to be done for the 99% rather than the 1% of the population; unless that 1% wants to pay for the 99%.

    The team not listening to the players is the reason why the population of the game has dropped by so much in the recent years. I play other MMO games which have been around since as early as 2001, which to this day, still have around 150,000 or more players on at all times. Why? Because the company and the developers listen to their players. Yes, overtime, the game has lost players due to the game going through changes which were not asked for, but the developers soon realised that and made the changes we asked for. As a result, older players returned to the game, which at it's lowest, used to have around 10,000 players after the above mentioned changes for the worst.

    Having played that game since 2001, I saw it go through changes; some for the better and some for the worse. Much like I have seen happen to DCUO since I started playing back in 2011. The difference is that one game company actually listens to their players in every aspect of the game. Whereas, here, the only thing they care about is what styles to release in time capsules.

    I have played numerous other MMORPG and MMO games since their inception. Sadly, most of them have the same future and a short lived life. DCUO is headed towards that same inevitable future, as it has been for several years. At some point though, the general population will say that enough is enough.


    It's not my problem, you're correct. The problem is for most of the players who play the game, who pay for the perks of the game and who spend their time on this game. Their time and money spent on this game is of no less value than yours. If the team released enough content for everyone to enjoy, there would be less issues. The problem rises when they spend time making pointless elite content for the 1% while neglecting other content, such as a solo or duo instance.

    I have completed the elite raid without any issues because I am able to play with people of the same skill set. However, as I previously mentioned, we all fall in the 1% bracket, which sadly, the general declining population of this game does not. As a result, who should they listen to and cater for? The 1% or the 99%? For all I care, they can continue listening to the 1% and ignoring the 99%, but at the end of the day, the game will lose more players. Once that happens, it will be people like yourself who will come to the forums and moan and complain about the lack of players running the elite content.



    I was elected by my people to speak on their behalf.

    How is making the elite content more accessible to 99% of the player base your problem? How is that going to affect you in any shape or form? You will still be able to run it, beat it and reap the rewards. The only difference is, so will most of the other players. How will that make any difference in your life or game?

    Yeah, those players can play the normal version of the content. But why should they not be able to enjoy the rewards from the elite content, just because they cannot beat it due to it being created for the 1%? By not playing it, they lose out of the renown and the elite gear. While also losing out on a solo and duo instance, which was left out so developers could spend time on making elite content.

    Those players could return in the future with higher level gear from the future DLC's. However, we all know how dead previous content becomes in this game. So to think otherwise, you would be kidding yourself.

    I remember the good o'l days when players would be running FoS raids constantly. People complained back then too about FoS 2 and FoS 3 being too difficult because of the bridge mechanics in FoS 2 or medics in FoS 3. Now who plays those raids? No one. You might get the odd person running it or using the portal for a few feats or styles, but in terms of the content actually being played, hardly anyone plays it. The same can be said about literally 90% of the content in the game.

    As for naming people, you should be aware that you cannot name or shame anyone on the forums. While I would not exactly be shaming anyone by naming them here, it could definitely be looked at a form of shaming, as I would be saying that they are unable to beat the elite content.

    People need to lose the elitist mentality, with which they only care for themselves and want content catered for them.

    If you would like to discuss their names in person, feel free to private message me in game on the EU hero servers.

    Now, none of my rants in this thread or any other threads are targeted at any developer or person in general. I appreciate the work they do, much like everyone else, especially during a global pandemic. I also appreciate that the developers do what they are told to do by the guys sitting in the ivory tower, who probably do not even play any games. Why? Because they have enough money to spend on real life pleasures.

    It is also those guys in the ivory tower who make decisions for the game which are generally against the players. Why? Because their decisions will make them more money, while driving players away.
  20. Stephen Nix Well-Known Player

    Just a heads up to everyone with how complicated your additions to this raid are remember this, there is a feat for doing the raid in 11 minutes for elite.

    So your saying you want more health added?

    If you do this, I want more time for that feat.

    IMO, leave the raid alone on the difficulty aspect. Fix the known glitches, that's where the problems exist.
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