Test Discussion Episode 36: Transformation Card - Artifact

Then they will be sacrificing 5% resto/dom if they went super powered, though it can be made up by other means just as any/most stats as I pointed out earlier. But that is not the point, this is a healer artifact and healers benefit from resto more than health.

Another point I made, we're talking visible health versus effective health. There isn't much of a difference but for healers effective health is what keeps them and the group alive. Both are accounted for with this artifact. If visible health was added then its effective health would have to be reduced. (check previous posts for more, if curious).

And visible health mainly helps with basic attacks. Any percentage mechanics/attacks will not change how much health (percentage) is lost, no matter how much health one has. This is where effective health/mitigation comes into play. (Knowing mechanics/boss fights and utilizing group role abilities/functions, play a even bigger role).

Healers use superpower spec as far as i know, the exception being maybe water for grp shields spam because if the troll is out (meta is playing with1 troll) the group doesnt have to wipe and can continue due to the power regeneration the superpower spec offers and because they chose to use that spec they would rather have the %hp over the %power, adds usually go for the healers until tank gets the aggro, that can take a moment or if a tank needs to get picked up, in the end the extra health helps healers to survive the damage done by adds, percentage damage due to boss special attacks or mechanics cannot be prevented from happening and refilling the health bars of teammates is quite an easy task as long the healer is alive but the basic attacks of adds is something a healer needs to be prepared to survive in a worse case scenario thats why increasing ones %def by using a white tactical neck mod instead of the 5% resto while not attacked is as important as swaping the %power stats for %health on this artifact, not only for dps & btank but also for healers.

Well that's one probable play style. Not everyone chooses super powered spec because it is not necessary, especially for support roles. It is only an alternative to those with not as much skill points or power, which this artifact will help with. The super powered spec is more for players who prefer just casting and not using their weapons, like play from the tray might users.

As each focus has/allows its own power regeneration at different percentage rates, though non super powered users like hybrid can regen extra power from their weapon attacks. Which at the end equal about the same amount of regen as a super powered user, just with additional percentage stats.

(P.S. a wipe scenario can be different each time. If a tank falls then there are other problems going on in that group. A healer shouldn't be picking up in that case. Not that they can't but shouldn't because they should be healing to help mitigate any incoming damage, while another player goes in for the pick up. If they can't mitigate the damage then a small amount of additional stats isn't going to change that much and a wipe will be evident).

I personally haven’t met any healers with hybrid spec who outperform superpowered spec’d ones. Elites are all about bursts, prevention and counters, in spammy situations like FI E with Sunbeams out or in the forge weapons fight I can’t see a hybrid outperform a superpower spec. I do agree with you with the adds attacking the heals with aggro drop, I also haven’t heard a single complaint about power lol. I imagine it’s possible to be low on power these days if all you do is spam your orb without knowing how to manage to power or how/when you need to heal. Healing these days is not about healing the dps but knowing what tank you are healing and how to keep them topped off while mitigating as much damage as possible by shielding at the right moments and even clipping counters into heals. I don’t understand why 5% of the power is so important for some to keep on this artifact, some just seem unable to think outside the box. We are not going to get another crit artifact, period. Like I said, this artifact has a lot of potential and is already good for every role with tanks being the only exception of course.

The reason I’ve been asking for this to be changes is due to the fact that there won’t be a tank artifact variant that increases your crit healing by 20% with health, dom/resto stats. Imagine the outrage by the healers if the devs only put 5% health and 4% dominance on this.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I haven’t seen a dev say anything about this artifact beings designed for damage and healer role, so why not make it more versatile? I guess it would be a strictly dps/healer artifact if they keep 5% power stat as is.

Just pointing out the obvious desired roles this artifact was intended for as shown in its' description.

I've never opposed having some health on this artifact. However I am against completely removing the power stat from this artifact entirely, as it is most definitely helpful to power users. We don't need another Mystic of the Seven Artifact. Different stats and options are always a good thing.

(Side Note/Tip: there are outside/alternative ways of increasing ones health besides the increase from the new episode caps (Sp, Gear/OP, Mods/Augs, Etc). As well as from artifact Stat combinations and their buffs/effects.

These additional increases I am referring to are "Hearty Mod" 5% Chest Tactical, League Health Buff 5% = 10% (Permanent/30 day upkeep), + Omega Buff 5%, Seasonal Health Buff 5%, = 10% (30min duration + persist through death). So 10% + 10% = 20% Health increase, not including the 3%+3% = 6% from episode specific adaptive augs and a temporary 5% health buff for 30 secs every 90 seconds from some available pet trinkets. That's a possible total of 31% health increase that comes to mind.

There may be more I'm missing. Oh elite affinities offer another 1-2% if you have 2-4 elite pieces and are using those affinity mods. So now we're at an additional 33% health increase. How much health does one truly need?

As I've mentioned I'm not against some health but please don't remove the power stat entirely, just to create another artifact with stats similar to quite a few we already have like the mystic artifact which is actually for tanks, while this artifact is actually intended for healers).

Well, rip then. Looks like a missed opportunity to capitalize on other roles besides healers and dps. Now, to refer to your back to your health stacking options, do you think tanks don’t use it or take it into account? It’s laughable if you don’t have those as tank, it’s a must have not an option. Any health you get always goes on top of those things especially with health specs. It’s not like you see a tanks who are doing so hot in elite they deliberately choose to not run the hearty mod.

League buffs, augments, affinity, gen mods etc are taken for granted regardless of your role. In fact, those things that you have listed actually amplify my point that health stacks depending on how much of it you have. The more you have the more you will gain from a percentage on an artifact. So, those 5-10k health from 5% health increase end up being 40+k. For some tanking power sets it’s absolutely crucial to have as much of it as possible.

Now, If a fire tank chooses to substitute one of their artifacts with the transformation card at a cost of dropping one of their current tank artifacts such as refractor/menacles or mystic of the 7 that have 5% health and base health stats on it they might want to rethink their life choices. Well, if they do, odds are they only tank alerts and maybe open world bounties and they suck.
Analogy wise, in terms of effectiveness and actual viability on a tank, substituting for transformation card is pretty much equivalent to drinking the same beer out of a bottle instead of can and thinking it’s a different beer. You lose 50k of health but your heals proc for additional 50k as a fire tank.

Now, I do agree with you that you can try to allocate skill points or choose to run this artifact on a fire tank but it’s just not viable. How much health do the tanks need? The answer is- as much as possible on top of those things that you have listed on here. Those things are going for granted and a counter argument could be made that a healer can easily adjust their play style by speccing less into resto and speccing everything into might and power first. You can pick power efficiency mod, energized whatever head mod, affinity C slot or drink some energy sodas. I could list the things you can do to get as much power as possible. A better question is, would you give up all the resto to have more power? I do not think so...
You have many options as well, you could run the demon’s fang, omega hedron and whatever else with power stat on it and then allocate your skill points accordingly and have like 24k resto with 120k power instead of 35k resto and 80k power. Would you do that? I don’t think so because resto is just that important... Neither would I nor should a tank at the cost of 5% health and dominance stat. Lastly, this may seem like an extreme example for you but trust me, you will have 100x times better time losing 5 or even 10% resto as a healer than a specific tank powerset losing on 5% health because you can’t heal a tank who gets one shot with their menacles proc’d and a big hit coming in their way

Btw, you can easily run mystyc 7, menacles with whatever else and be perfectly fine in elite as a healer. Long post and both of us are biased, I am however trying to look at this more objectively because 5% health detrimental compared to 5% power. I don’t want to lose power either but hey, in my view sacrifices have to be made. I’m all in for different play styles and wouldn’t be against Menacles of Force at 200 rank resetting healers’ shields allowing you to play differently and have more fun with your builds. Too bad the devs are limiting us. So I will understand but won’t agree if they keep the power stat since it was classified as dps/healer artifact.

Definitely, the opposite can be argued for power. I'm not disputing that as I've mentioned that either/most stats can be adjusted by other means/aspects in the game. I was just trying to stay true to the intentions of this artifact.

I personally don't believe one needs to have maximum health or power (any stat really) from every single aspect of the game to be effective. A decent balance of both can definitely get the job done. This is from my personal experience. I play each role and have played all/most powers. I also have each tank power. My main is actually a fire tank, which runs elite without much problems. I have him maxed out already for this episode. I am always trying new things/play styles as well because I often get bored at times.

I have more than enough stat points and options available to balance my stats to an appropriate/desired range. (Not at the 500 range yet but close to 470, which is more than enough for me). I know most probably don't have as much and only a few are within that range or higher. So that is also why the stats from the artifacts can be helpful not just for anyone using it but especially more for those who do not have much stats or options as some others may have.

Artifacts have become the new addition of stat points with bonus effects, that's how I view them. The developers could have just easily added on to the current stat tree by creating tiers for certain abilities and convert feat points into experience earned over tine, while having actual feats earned as a boost with bonus rewards.

We essentially have that in the form of a new artifact UI with nth metal serving as the experience. Though I personally feel that the stat tree with higher tiers could have done the same thing but a bit better. But what we have isn't bad and actually works. It is something different and enjoyable as it opens up more options and possible play styles.

My problem is in the classification- dps/healer. It indicates that it’s not suitable for tanks because they don’t self heal? hence the power stat? They limit my options and I’m sure options of many others by making it less appealing due to its stats; hence, yeah sure... a dps/healer artifact and tanks get a shaft if they are thinking what I’m thinking. If they follow your reasoning, great for them and they can go ahead and adjust their sp and spec the best way possible to make use of it. I’m close to 500 and I just can’t see myself use it in the future as a fire tank and definitely not as any other tank hence I won’t be pouring my 2mil xp to use sometimes that will be more suitable for a healer or dps rather than a tank. Unlike yourself, I don’t have many alts so leveling it up is a commitment that I can’t justify upon switching from one tanking power to another. I have like 7 or 8 versatile artifacts at 200 on my main and I don’t really need a niche fire/healer/dps artifact. A good dps/healer artifact though, and I will level it up on my healer, eventually...


I don’t disagree on the fact that you can play around with sp allocation and go full out resto or do whatever else you please but will it be viable and worth the investment? I guess it’s up to you... I personally don’t see many leveling it up, some fire tanks might but then again, is it really worth that investment? It’s a no in my book even on a fire tank that could benefit the most out of all tanking power sets. I would however, given some kind of versatility and not discouragement from using, I’d get it to 200 first thing before breakfast with the 5% health increase regardless what power I’m playing because I’d know it will work.

I understand, your basing it off of your current stats/setup and play style. Not everyone is the same though and usually have different setups and play styles that suit them/work for them. My main actually has his primary artifacts maxed for each role. And I have multiple builds (might & prec, etc). His secondaries and swaps are all at 160 at the moment. So I have on him about 3 primaries maxed (well 2, 1 is at 180), and a few (about 8) others (secondaries/swaps at160, 1 is about 130) within/at a decent range/rank.

So about 11 artifacts just on my main at the moment. Which I'm actually looking to condense, as I know more artifacts will be coming that will most likely interest me even more. And I tend to get bored with using the same build/play style for too long, that's why I will be condensing some and holding on to a few of my swap artifacts.

I personally never felt obligated to have them all maxed right away, as most are just a slight stat boost. Which I never had problems with the stat differences. I mostly look at the bonus effects that will work well with a particular play style first, stats count but come second to me. As more and more artifacts will be coming out that will bring even more options and play styes to choose from.

(P.S. Some health will be a nice addition on this artifact, though it is not necessary. Perhaps if the developers decide to give it some, then either half health and power or 25% can be health and 75% of it can remain as power. It will still stay true to the artifacts intent, while not hurting so much if anyone decides to run this/swap out from a artifact that had some health on it. I too do encourage different options but at the same time, I wouldn't want those options to hurt/take away from the main goal of an artifacts intended build/play style).

Fair enough. I do agree with your last point. People can never go wrong with leveling gemini or scrap because of their versatility. You can use those on any role without taking too much of a hit to your stats. I guess what they could do for transformation card is to make it similar to the gemini and give it a a decent, flat out number of health, I think gemini has like 6700 something but no health %. Scrap has 4% health on it and decent base around 7k. Putting a base health stat on it and a small %, be it 2 or 3% at max rank would be alright. They could reduce the power % but who knows, maybe they won’t even touch the power stat and will just buff the artifact by giving it a passive and % health stat, which will definitely provide additional options for everyone. It would be smart because even more people will level it up and spend the money

so even at rank 80 this artifact will increase your overall damage because of the crits? is there any downside to using it?

right now i use solar, Grim, cloak all at rank 160+ lets say i replaced my cloak with the transformation card would my overall damage increase just from having the artifact at rank 80?

There’s a downside. You are essentially banking on crits more than before to compensate for stat/15% damage reduction. Parses fluctuate but on average probably higher. No real way to tell how it would perform in a raid versus something like grim/solar/philosopher’s stone etc. I’ve seen extremely high parses with transformation and much lower ones as well

I'm currently looking into reducing the Power % granted from artifact from 5% to 3% and adding Health 3%. This will also likely lead to removing Base Power stat from artifact to compensate for the extra % given.

A mix of base health and 3% would be amazing! Or are you going to give this artifact a flat out 3% health increase without base health/power stats?

It will be the Flat 3% health increase. Base stats for health and power will not be there. The budget for stats was getting too high on the artifact as it was really strong already.

I’m sorry that I may be annoying and ask too many questions but how do stats such as health and power make it any more more powerful? While the health stat on a healer or dps is nice it’s not going to make that much of a difference especially without a little assist from the base stats.

On tanks, 3% health won’t scale that much when compared to artifacts such as Dilustel Refractor, Menacles of Force and Mystic of The 7 due to the fact that all those at 200 rank have 5% health bonus as well as 7650 base health on top of that the only exception is Mystic of the 7 that has 4078 health or something like that. Tank power sets cannot take advantage from the transformation card, by using it they already take a huge hit from losing base and % stats such as dominance/health and restoration. The overall decrease in health is also very significant when compared to other tank artifacts. Healers already have the lowest health pools and typically never put skill points into health, so 3% health isn’t that much of a gain when compared to something that provides a flat out base health/power like the eye of the gemini, or even both both base and % for health and power like scrap of the soul cloak for example. The dps doesn’t benefit since might and power stats and critical effects remain untouched.

As of right now, at current CR the gemini artifact that doesn’t give any health or power %, but has base of 6375 health and 6693 power so seem to be a better bang for the buck in terms of health/power gain when compared to naked 3% health and power alone.

I understand that you don’t want to over buff the artifact by giving it too much health/power etc... but how would it make it too strong for a specific role one role only such as a healer, dps or a tank when looking at them individually?

In other words, how much of an impact would it make it you changed
Rank 200- Transformation card: 6693 Power, 478 Precision 765 Might, 382 Restoration.
5% Power
3% Restoration
3% Might
3% Precision

To

Rank 200- Transformation card: 3346 Power, 3346 Health, 478 Precision, 762 Might, 382 Restoration.
3% Health
3% Power
3% Precision
3% Might
3% Restoration
I don’t know anything about balancing but I like the game and something like that ^ seems a little more versatile, viable and well rounded (not overbuffed) regardless on what role you use it.