Test Discussion Episode 31: Spindrift Station (8-Player Raid) feedback thread

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Millbarge, Mar 15, 2018.

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  1. Zneeak Devoted Player

    I assume you deactivate some of them for smaller blast radius? Or do you not even have to do that lol?
  2. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Deactivate just a couple bombs closest to you and the group and stand by the wall. Really all you have to do. For an elite fight I'm honestly disappointed. Besides the bombs all he really does is a focus blast with a skull tell, then a rocket launcher, not sure what the tell for that is yet. I agree with ala, they should spice it up and have him call in adds.
  3. Zneeak Devoted Player

    Well that's atleast something. How was the puzzle room in the Elite version lmao ? I can only imagine xD I wouldn't mind if he called in some adds either, shouldn't be impossible to implement that before going live.

    It would be more exciting if the bombs randomly spawned in different areas of the room at different times, requiring people to act fast by either deactivating them or be fast enough to dodge them, I feel like it could make the Elite-version especially a bit more spicy. I doubt a change like that one could be made at this point though.
  4. 9001BPM Steadfast Player

    Didn’t they do something like that with Johnny Quick in PanoE after it had already hit live? Never say never :)
  5. Zneeak Devoted Player

    One could hope.
  6. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    Feedback
    It took a full premade, but we finally got through the Spindrift Station on normal difficulty. Here are some followup comments:

    Puzzle
    I understand the point is to apply "heavy pressure" to the team and it succeeds in doing that. By the time the people complete repairing the pipes, the main room is completely overflowing with mobs. Here is an example:
    [IMG]

    Our center room team consisted of two tanks, one controller (me), one healer, and two DPS. A second controller might have helped a little bit, but we didn't have a second controller. The tanks were pulling everything possible. I was standing in front of the Oxygen containers using Vortex Cannon to push the mobs back toward the tanks. Still, things were getiing crazy just do to the sheer volume of mobs.

    As is, you pretty much need a perfect attempt with a bit of luck to clear it.

    I don't think the normal version of the raid is going to be particularly PUG friendly. It required an extremely cooperative, patient team with everyone knowing what they were doing. That's a very tall order for a PUG group.

    If any changes were going to be made to the puzzle section for Normal difficulty, I'd like to see:
    • Better indicators for the Oxygen containers. I never saw the red icons on my first run of the day.
    • Adding an extra second or two between main room spawn waves would help.

    Morgwar
    I get the impression the Normal version of this fight isn't working correctly. The group was able to completely ignore Mera's shielding mechanic. I'm not quite sure what the shielding mechanic is supposed to protect against. As is, Morgwar was a tank and spank fight with only a couple of small surprises.
    • Like x 1
  7. IcyStone Well-Known Player

    I have done this raid 2 times with 1 controller. Its a bit tricky but when the group knows what to do is not that hard.
  8. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Yeah we figured out the perfect set up for the puzzle yesterday, it becomes easy when you know what to do.

    We ended up with the 5111 standard, tank one side, troll on other side keeping adds at bay with CC, a dps on each side to help burn and the healer and extra dps left in the room bring oxygen tanks to the two dps in the puzzle rooms while assisting with burn in between. That might be the normal set up when this goes live.

    As much as I appreciate the importance of the troll in this raid, i wish every raid required them to be as important in some manner.
  9. Gromm865s Active Player

    Not sure if I was just unlucky or what, I've tried the raid once. I was one of the guys in the pipe room. The ad that pops inside the room, each time he hit, it was doing 1/4 of my health in damage. The 1 move that we are allowed to attack back with, did almost nothing. Doesn't seem to me like there is enough time to attack those ads and complete the puzzle. But again, maybe I was just unlucky on my run.
  10. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    You are not supposed to fight with the crab-adds, you just need to push them away while you repair the pipeline.
  11. Saturniner New Player

    We recently completed Spindrift Station Eilte and I only wish to touch on one point I noticed during the "puzzle" portion of the raid. Other group members would most likely provide feedback on other portions of the raid.
    I wish to add that the Puzzle fight is perfect without a need to implement any kind of changes as far as mechanics, number of adds, or anything else. It also applies correct amount of pressure for intended roles.
    The only thing which I perceived as a potential "bug" during the puzzle fight was trollers of certain powers are not able to stun or CC the adds whatsoever. We tested by having a Quantum controller using both anomaly and distortion wave to stun all types of adds and those outside of Warder's bubble. The result was none of the adds could be stunned and was heavily dependent on the tanks.
    Afterwards, we tested by having a gadgets controller stun the adds and found success. The gadgets controller was able to put adds in temporary encasements but then the tanks were unable to pull them once they were encased. I thought this was fixed where tanks overrode controller's CC effects. My only suggestion for the fight is that all controller powers be able to CC/stun adds that are outside the Warder's bubble.
    • Like x 3
  12. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    I noticed this myself in normal, none of my stuns were effecting the adds at one point (quantum) and only the rage rank was able to pull them away with E-chain. Was a little frustrating and glad to see I wasn't the only one to notice it.
    • Like x 1
  13. BRITTENY Dedicated Player

    This feedback is for Elite

    Manta
    • It would be nice if the knockback from his Focusblast didn't take you out of block. It will end up killing you, even if you're blocking before it hits. It would be nice if you didn't hit that knockback. I wouldn't have an issue if tanks still had two immunities. But with one, it makes it very tricky to line it up with every Focusblast attack. You can see in the example, I'm already blocking, but then die because I get knocked out of block.

    • The mines he lays down (the handclap animation he does) is there a way to make them not spawn in the air? And also make them either brighter or just overall easier to see. They get lost in the mix of everyone else's animations.
    • His grenades also fall into the same category. If you could make them brighter, or just easier to see, that'd be great.
    • Another attack, the Rocket Launcher, also needs to be made more visible. The projectiles are very small and are difficult to see within everyone's animations.
    • Mera - I hate everything about her "assistance". Her water attacks are just flat out annoying. They completely cover the boss. With all the VFX pollution we have on the screen, all she does is add to it. I absolutely hate water and their animations. This just makes it 100x's worse having her "assisting" us when it really feels like she's just there to troll us with her attacks.
    • The bombs- Is there a way to just change how this works? You can easily avoid them without having to disable any of them. I'd rather see bombs on the actual players and they have to group up to spread out the damage. Or, have the bombs on the ground and the player need to soak the damage. Or place a shield on the player and everyone needs to go to the shield to be protected from the explosions. Something more than just disabling them. You don't even need to do that. You can just hug the wall and you're fine.
    Manta just needs to be buffed. The adds hit harder than he does. We beat him with most of the group being 224.

    The Puzzle Room
    • I was inside the puzzle. Somehow we were able to glitch the oxygen and I didn't actually die when my air depleted to 0. This happened a few times and I'm not sure how. I was still able to put the rest of the pieces in and then hit the final cog.
    • It would be nice if you needed both people in the puzzle rooms to have to hit the final cog at the same time. I think that would really add another layer of difficulty. We found that you really need to communicate with your group if you're outside the puzzle rooms. I think the people inside should also need to coordinate.
    • Another thing, would it be possible to add a speed boost, at the cost of some of your oxygen? Just wondering. I don't think we were using all 4 oxygen containers. So you could possibly have enough of it if you're careful.
    • What causes the oxygen supply to deplete by 1 or 2 and not a consistent number? I thought maybe if I wasn't moving it'd go down by 1, and when I was moving it'd go down by 2, but that's not the case.


    Morgwar
    • He needs a major buff. This was by far the easiest encounter.
    • I'd love to see the Deluge Aquamancers have a timer and if you didn't kill them within a certain amount of time, they would buff Morgwar or give him some kind of something. I don't know if they're broken or what. But all they're doing is delaying us killing the boss since you have to down them in order for Morgwar to come back out. I'd rather see Morgwar come out or stay out with those adds. They don't need to be tanked, so it's not as if the boss couldn't be out at the same time.
    • This boss fight was just underwhelming. I don't know if it was buffed, it'd make it more interesting or what. But we didn't really have to pay attention any actual "mechanics". I'm not 100% sure as to what the mechanics are in there because it was just a really easy fight. Only a few attacks required you to block. Everything else just didn't do enough damage to make you stop and block or move.
    A few other things
    • The pools with the sharks, could you make them attack you if you go in the water??? Pretty please??? :D I think that would be hilarious.
    • The doorways are a speedsters nightmare. Could those be made wider?
    • Is there a way to open this door? I'm just looking for a yes or no. I spent a few minutes trying to look but had to go. I was just curious. It's in the first room where you fight Manta. I'm missing an investigation from in there. So I wasn't sure if it was in there or if it's located in a different instance.
    [IMG]

    Final thoughts:

    If this is the only new raid we're getting for the next 3-6 months, it needs a huge buff. We beat it in 224 gear. I can't imagine how it will be at 228, with all of our mods/skill points/etc. I'd really like to see more mechanics throughout each boss fight. As of now, it'll be great for a few weeks, but it'll lose it's luster really fast. I'm very disappointed that the Starro event is being combined with this episode and touted as "tons of new content". I was really looking forward to two new raids, instead, we're getting one, and then something we've already seen. Most of the feats in "The Threat Below", we've already completed last year. I don't see how just one new raid will be keeping us busy for that amount of time unless it's just super hard and something we need to continue to grind for to beat. The feats don't seem like they'll keep us going for that long either. If the raid was buffed and then we had additional difficult feats, I could see that helping. But as is, I don't see how this will keep me playing until the next episode is launched. This raid isn't on the Throne or Dox level. If it was, that'd be amazing. We'd have a raid that would keep us busy for months on end.

    The setting is beautiful. I do really like the concept of the raid. The puzzle room is awesome. This just doesn't feel like an elite raid ATM. I'm hoping that the difficulty is bumped up and that more mechanics are added so the fights don't feel like just a tank and spank with some random one-shots thrown in the mix. It's also hard to tell what the difficulty should be at since we're not actually testing with our actual toons. I'd rather have a copy of my toon to see how the difficulty is, instead of using the 195 gear and a toon with 200sp. Or then jumping up to the new gear and not being able to see how it is in between all of that.

    Last thing - WILL SOMEONE PLEASE LOOK INTO IRE NOT WORKING? I'm still getting CC'd even after hitting it. It's VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY frustrating. Thank you :)
    • Like x 7
  14. Black Dawn Steadfast Player

    So I ran the normal version of the raid and here is my feedback:

    I think that the bosses could be bumped up a bit, they were a bit on the "easy side" while the ads hit very hard.

    Pipe room: We were able to beat it after at least a half a dozen wipes. We had 2 tanks, 1 troll, 1 heal, 4 dps - two of the dps were doing the pipe rooms, I was the heal. Communication seems to be the key to complete this part with those doing the pipes letting the group know when they were low on oxygen (had them alert us when they reached 30%), I do think that this would have been smoother if we had another heal or if I was at my live strength (full elite, mods, etc). The Wardens were a bit annoying since they blend in with the rest of the ads.

    Location: I love this map, it's really wonderful, but I found myself getting caught on the doorways, annoying but it could be because I'm not used to the layout yet.

    Shark pool: I love that 20 second feat, super funny and adorable.
    • Like x 1
  15. Shark Dental Devoted Player


    I thought I was crazy yesterday when this kept happening. I thought, well, maybe this boss just overrides immunities. And this boss too. And this other one too. Totally insane to only have your breakout trinket to rely on, lol.
  16. BRITTENY Dedicated Player

    Just a few additional thoughts -

    • In the puzzle room, it seems like it'd make more sense to have only two pieces to figure out in normal and three in Elite. I know that they're supposed to be random and not be a guaranteed three turn for each, but having more to figure out in Elite puts more pressure on the people in the puzzle room.
      • Additionally, it would be neat if you wiped, that the puzzle pieces you had to turn, changed. So it wasn't always the same each time you went into the room.
    • Morgwar
      • I honestly feel like this boss fight just needs to be overhauled. Idk if even bumping up his damage will make it any more interesting.
      • I would have loved to have seen him encase someone in a bubble and the group has to DPS the bubble to free your teammate or else they will end up drowning. The person in the bubble could have a dot on them so the pressure would be on the group to free them.
      • Having him split into two smaller bosses that would require two tanks, they would have to split the bosses. If not, they'd both gain a shield that did 100% reduced damage. This would require the tanks to separate the bosses. And also require two tanks. I could also see a tank swap. The mini Morgwars could put a debuff that after a certain amount of stacks, would require the tanks to swap bosses. Once the tanks swapped, the debuff would reset. That would be very cool. I loved the Dr Light fight in PB because it required a tank swap. You could do the same thing with this boss. You could replace that wide spinning, like pool he does with this. That thing didn't really damage you and was more of an annoyance than anything.
      • The more I think about it the more I just dislike this final boss fight. I wish there was something more innovative than what we were given. I know this is test, but man. It's really disappointing to go through that puzzle room, then end up with this boss and he just doesn't do much. The puzzle room required so much communication. I wish that was the same throughout the whole entire raid. Every boss fight should need some form of communication and teamwork. As of now, you could get through the first and last boss without even needing to utter a word to your group. I don't think that should be the case in an Elite raid. I really wish you had to execute the fights perfectly to beat the raid. The mechanics should be punishing if you don't follow them. It shouldn't just be a tank and spank fight. The puzzle room has that mentality down pretty well. I think that same idea needs to be applied to the first and last boss.
    • To clarify about the sharks, I know there's a feat for being in the water, I just thought it'd be funny if you got too close to the sharks or stayed in the water too long, they would kill you, or at least bite you and do some damage :D
  17. Jay Smeezy Dedicated Player

    Cool, but just like in zoo, they would never attack you to change you back from the man-bat or break bubble in this case! People get focused or dont give a rat’s gluteous and continue on everything but you, all the while your earned supercharge gets depleted and no matter how many times you type in chat that you are a BAT nobody damages you cause idiots dont wanna communicate via microphone...sorry where were we, ah yes, great idea, lol!
    • Like x 1
  18. EconoKnight XIII Legion

    The thing about heavy communication required is that not everyone in this game speaks English - they speak Portuguese and Spanish and Filipino and others. You don’t see many of these people posting on the forums because it’s not their language here, but that makes them no less valuable. They are also not dumb simply because they don’t understand you; many are likely smarter than those who dismiss them.

    On the English side, you have significant use of urban slang and profanity in voice chat. F*** this; f*** that; and f*** you. I don’t want to listen to that; and that’s why I run with in-game voice turned off. I’ll sometimes use a third party program like Discord; but if your league is switching around to in-game voice or other programs to accommodate outside people - well, that only works if your league mates bother to tell you where they are going.

    This doesn’t even mention people with disabilities who can’t hear.

    When you add all these groups up, they account for a significant number. So while some want heavy communication - well, it again comes down to the dev teams’ goals. Who are they creating content for?
    • Like x 3
  19. Penryn The Gadgeteer

    This is a valid point EconoKnight. I ran into this problem on my PUG run in the pipe repair room. Some of the team didn't speak English. Most people didn't have voice chat. Some of them only communicated in long strings of profanities. Trying to explain mechanics and tell people exactly what they needed to do was hopeless. People eventually started to get an idea of what they needed to do after several wipes, but people started to leave. That meant bringing in more people that had never seen the puzzle room before. Most of the new people didn't want to communicate at all. Fortunately, a real-life interruption brought that bit of "fun" to an end for me.

    That doesn't mean the pipe repair room is going to be impossible. We came close to finishing it once before people started to leave. Still, it requires a high degree of cooperation and communication.
  20. TestReporter Loyal Player

    They can play the normal version of the raid, that can be beaten really easily with a 224 group (will be a lot easier live) or find a group of their language or just learn the mechanics and communicate in the game/voice chat with some little info, like: oxygen low, help adds, etc. If you are going to make content for every single person in the world then you'll have nothing, there are people you can't talk, who can't walk, who can't move their hands, etc.

    Most (almost all) of the games make content for the majority, because they just can't please everybody, if the devs could make content that would please everyone, they definetelly would. Also, it won't kill anyone if they need to type some words or learn/read some words in other languages. Just like english, people in every language say bad words, it's kind of xenophobic to think only english people say bad words or disrespect the others.

    That said, this shouldn't be taken into account when balancing a raid, otherwise the content will be stuck in time. Almost everything in a MMO should need communication and besides the puzzle, the raid is a cake walk.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This is probably the best feedback we've had in months, it's really nice to see people like you speaking about the situation and giving expert feedback, i really hope the devs hear you and change the raid, plus everything you said above. They should definetelly take into account the "The raid will get boring if it's easy" argument, hard raids will make us play more the other instances in order to get gear and run more often the raids to learn the mechanics in order to beat it.

    The normal raid should be easy but not tank and spank, and the elite raid should be really hard and require a lot of gear, i believe this is a simple thing that is being ignored in almost all of the episodes. We need less of the devs talking about: "We are focusing in elite content" and more action. They have only 10 days to change the raid, if they do it right, the episode can be fun and entertain us for months, it's all about what they do during testing feedback.
    • Like x 1
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