Elite plus?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Sleepy Healer, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Hey, we can agree on something, though Event came because the devs wanted something for new and low CR players to be able to do the new paid for content. Since they would have to level up to run the content that was being showcased.

    Have we been reading the same forums? Just look at the threads about generator mod crafting for Flashpoint rewards. Very recent posts.

    The devs introduced elite gear that had no stat increase, but it had elite affinity. They later made it a direct increase when they did the renown system with feats attached. It's part of progression now and you can say otherwise as much as you want, but it's there because players would not run the content. Players have said it. Devs have mentioned it. But we read different forums. :D

    Let me ask you, would you run harder content that did not have feats attached, no stat increases, no special drops, and provided the same rewards as regular? If you say yes, for how long would you and the 7 other players in your group would want to do it each week. (Or multiple times each week for replays marks.) Honest answer here, please.
  2. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    The flashpoint generator mod system was the worst system introduction since the Norseman gear. It was an absolute failure and never should have hit live server anyways.

    I am not referring to original elite gear progression I am specifically talking about the extra difficulties introduced since flashpoint. No one is asking for exclusive gear drops in Elite+ the Supply drop from TSWE+ didn't need to be in + and could have been a normal elite rare drop. Putting exclusive rewards in content like that only encourages speed hackers that DCUO doesn't do anything about anyways. Extra marks or renown is irrelevant for anyone to complain about. They could easily release a survey and find the results themselves that players want a level of content above what many consider to be very easy elite raids. There isn't a single aspect to TTE that makes it difficult for any player that pays attention. Control your dps and kill first boss at same time? check, run into a dome with plenty of time? check, don't breakout and stand near a player? check, turn a cog on some orbs and don't stand in a pool? check. Match a symbol with a puzzle? check. All of those mechanics could be explained to a child.

    For your question I can even make a youtube video and pose it to the community. There would have to be at least some feats added, you need something to strive for and have the extra sense of accomplishment. Look at the Epic Odyssey feat and multiple leagues spending months trying to get it. Does there need to be alot of feats? no it could just be a few well selected feats.
    • Like x 1
  3. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    So the answer is, you would need "something" in progression to entice you? Otherwise, the difficulty alone isn't enough to hold your attention.
    • Like x 5
  4. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    I wouldn't consider feats progression. Feats are just something to accomplish. If a feat is difficult enough then you spend time practicing, building strategies, finding correct role balance. That is what drives alot of players. If some exclusive reward like some elite plus only emote etc came out that is what drives the toxicity and the exclusivity conversation. The original survival modes had the right concept, after Round 10 there was no extra styles. There was some titles and some pets that do nothing. Groups still spent countless hours in it despite no meaningful reward.
    • Like x 1
  5. August Moon Well-Known Player

    Wait ,wait ,wait . So the gatekeeping was perfectly fine back when it was affecting the tank and healer but now that the pain is spread throughout the entire team now it's a problem?

    Also ,can ya give me a list of Damage check mechanics that have been in the prior elite plus ? Once that cant be blocked , or avoided and absolutely needs a burst of damage in order to pass it ? I'd just really like that list for GP
  6. Raven Nocturnal Loyal Player

    AND those feats didn't give points, yet people still love to run it. E+ can have feats, but they don't need points attached. The points = the progression, no matter how miniscule. That's what I believed it should have always been like (Survival Mode), and I've always brought it up multiple times.
    • Like x 3
  7. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    SM is a limited time only event though that doesn't ever return the same. So those feats for Season 1-3 had zero feat points because that wouldn't be fair to have that many feats tied to content players can no longer achieve. Look at how the 50pt back from the hack feat is treated, lots of threads have been created complaining they want a feat they have no business asking about.

    Elite+ Episode content is always there and playable. So if there are some hard feats like the ones in TWSE+ players always have the option to wait for an episode or 2 to get access to better gear to attempt them. You cannot honestly tell me that out of 820+ skill points if 1 skill point per Elite+ release is going to make any sort of impact to a players progression lol.
    • Like x 1
  8. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    The other ironic point that hasn't been brought up is I keep seeing elite+ etc content being referred to as "just for a small portion of the community" the forum community itself, all of you reading and responding to this thread, is a tiny portion of the community. Multiverse and I see WAY more community traffic then these dcuo forums do on our respective Youtube channels, but somehow you are justifying that the opinions on these forums speak for that of the entire communities opinion towards the need for elite+ content?

    super ironic

    you could count on 1 hand the same forum names talking or defending elite content difficulty on the forums. Do you think that is an accurate representation on how the game feels? or is it just that those players would much rather ignore the drama of the forums entirely?
  9. zNot Loyal Player

    A player being excluded because he lacks skill vs someone whos excluded because hes not buffing are two different things, try again.
    • Like x 2
  10. Raven Nocturnal Loyal Player

    Wasn't really the point though, the point was people still run it for the fun and challenge, regardless of feat points. And that's a good thing.
    No, but it's the principal of the matter. And small impact or not, it's still progression.
    • Like x 2
  11. Skille Well-Known Player

    I think there is a very small percentage of people that agree. Elite plus caters to end game players/leagues who want a challenge. Regular elite is a joke. People are still running TSWE+ because it's still the harder content. Hopefully this TTE+ is just as much of a challenge.
    • Like x 1
  12. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Feats are progression and have a greater impact now than before stats revamp. They make your character stronger, they are progression. They are in the lateral category, where gear is in the vertical.

    And I agree, the original SM was indeed the ideal when it comes to the right concept. Hard content that requires focus and best gear, designed to test your skill. 0pt feats for titles. Special styles and pets for bragging rights. It would be neat if they could adopt that for elite, but we know that players wont run it since it's lacking the progression.
    • Like x 3
  13. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    And yet, you both are still a "small portion of the community". Super ironic indeed.
  14. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    And yet, we both don't truly know how big either of our portion of the community is so that point should be completely irrelevant to any conversation because neither of us have remotely any actual data to reference in that debate.
  15. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Sample sizes, amirite?

    We may never know the metric of players that like this content, but it definitely is a smaller portion that actually can run the content. Which a census query can get results from. (Is the census back up again?) It's all data and it's not irrelevant to the conversation just because you say it should be.
    • Like x 1
  16. farm3rb0b Committed Player

    There's a level of overgeneralization here. Let's lay out a few things that are facts:
    • There has always been a level of division in this game over content difficulty
    • There are members of the community who feel that if anything is put in the game at all, they have a right to earn it as players
    • There are members of the community who have voiced on the forums that if it's tied to progression in the game, they are entitled to it
    • Numerous other games have endgame content levels (Regular/Elite, Normal/Legendary/Master, Normal/Heroic/Mythic, Normal/Savage/Ultimate)
    • Numerous other games give you distinct rewards for completing higher difficulty content, though it does not hinder you from completing any content in the game
    What I have never understood about this community is that if there is a subset of players who seek something harder, and the developers are willing to make it, why does that make others unhappy?

    I've recently picked Destiny 2 back up and I get where some of this player base is coming from. In that game, I'm the person watching others speedrun the hardest difficulty content solo. o_O I don't want it nerfed. I don't want to run it solo myself, I don't have time for that. But I don't want it taken away. That's not what that game is for me. Let 'em do their thing, and maybe one day I'll give that a shot.

    DCUO is the opposite. What Elite has become to my league feels like an Event sometimes. We used to low-man stuff. We wish we still could for old feats, honestly. I spend the first half of an episode waiting for Elite+ at this point. We'd go into Elite+ regardless of feat points. We make fun of the "increased rewards" text on higher difficulty content. We're not running it for better rewards, because there aren't better rewards. We're running it because it's the only thing in this game that comes close to making us feel like we actually overcame something. Outdoor dailies? Duo? Alert? Normal? Elite? We're checking a chore off a list. Elite+? We did something.
    • Like x 10
  17. Raven Nocturnal Loyal Player

    Perhaps on your server, but on Xbox I think there might only be like 12 players tops that can even beat it (is there a way to search how many have those feats/headlines?). Heh. I haven't even heard of anyone wanting to bother attempting it in many moons. But that's a completely different story :p
    • Like x 1
  18. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that, the problem lays with the less for all element. To produce a DLC, we used to get far more content, now we get less with 3+ versions of the same content. So you talk about taking away something, there has been ever since Elite was made and there have been far too much dedicated to that many levels that could have resulted in designing better meaningful content. Instead, we get spread thin devs. This is even before the mass leaving they recently had. *coughmonthlycontentcoughcough*

    I loath OC, but I acknowledge it's some of players favorite content. It did do some things right (and of course ruined it with how the reward system was built). Eventually, that content could be out geared and was accessible, that just isn't the case with the current design of the game. You have 3 DLCs to try and make it easier with gear, then it goes to EEG and you are subject to hope that piercing will help enough to get through. (Which further promotes SP as being progression.)
    I agree, sometimes the content developed has been lackluster with mechanics. SOBA was a good example of this. The alert had better mechanics than the two raids, but it also was coming out of the tail end of the dev exodus and restructuring.

    I think most of us can agree, we've not been happy with how little of what we get now vs what we used to get. They are not equal and we do get lost in the nostalgia.
    • Like x 3
  19. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Yes but only one side is using it against the other. Where are any players defending elite content saying "there are too many casuals in regular it should be harder"? I have never once on these forums petitioned for event or regular to be made more challenging because that isn't what that content is there for. So how does it seem reasonable that players want elite or elite+ content to be either removed or brought down in difficulty so that it was accessible to anyone and everyone?

    You start in regular and learn your role and understand the raid mechanics then you move up to Elite where the mechanics would be more punishing then move to elite+ where you have to utilize everything you've learned at once. That is progression, not earning 1 skill point and increasing your stats by miniscule numbers. I've got 250,000 might and I just earn 1 skill point and now I have 250,075 might, mighty levels of progression there.
    • Like x 1
  20. August Moon Well-Known Player

    Thats not what i said at all. My issue is you're over here trying to get e plus removed under the guise of it breeding exclusivity and toxicity for every facet of the group but you had absolutely no issue when the ire was solely put on the tank and healer. How can you preach for inclusion and then a post later say some exclusion is fine as long as its not X or Y. And please don't down play how bad the exclusion was. Before revamp you couldn't even be an electric healer. During advanced mechanic days your tank was literally removed if it was even seen as anything not ice, rage, or atomic. That sure af don't sound like a skill issue , it sounds like a power issue something you had to spend money to rectify. But i guess thats just a skill issue .

    Also you didnt answer the other part of my last question