Does DCUO Have Longevity? (Long thread)

I like your point, however i think, despite the dumbing down, i feel we have even more failed runs now, let's recall FoS2 when it was hard, people would stop and make a strategy, i recall stuff like "Tank, you grab the stone, then throw it to the bridge, troll, you pull adds off the bridge and X player picks stone and throws it further, then tank should have already raced to that 3rd spot and pick it up, rest of the team form two barriers to protect the pillar"

And what added to the magic is that people actually did it like pros, nowadays you have silly stuff like "No MrPlAyErsZZ28, dont hit on the reflect when the build up animation warns you , it be bad for you" ..and yet, you see the FoTM still completing their rotation and then making everyone rush to pick them up, precisely because they don't go through that "tough" learnind period all timers went through, where they stood 2 hrs at fos trying to figure out the best way to succeed instead of runing head first into the wall over and over until stars align and luck smiles just enough for them to finish the burn before the wipe point comes.

1. Personally I would like to do away with the "Need 5 DPS for X raid, solo tank, controller, and healer". If everyone's DPS was a amazing as they think (or the community in general seems to think) then raids wouldn't need 5 DPS to complete the content. Being top of the scoreboard is a silly way to measure ones contribution to a raid. Quality DPS do more than damage, they pick up downed players, they block/roll away from damage, they support the entire team by protecting their teammates from adds that get away from the tanks aggro (it happens). Just because someone is able to top the scoreboard does not make them a good player in any sense, that goes for now as well as raids in the past.
2. At first, I was totally against the new mark system, not only did the Devs take all my Marks of Triumph. Marks of Fury, and Symbols (still hurts inside) but they got rid of earning marks outside your CR relevancy! I was appalled. But then, I got over the majority of the hurt from my missing marks, and the Devs added the new loot system for content out of your CR relevancy. 100 Prestige, 100 Marks of Merit, Exobit Cluster, or rarely a MoV or Compound Omega, as well as the regular gear drops, is a fantastic alternative (to me).
3. I cannot recall the last time my UI closed down after modding gear. However, I am on PC so that may have something to do with it. I do have problems if I open a reward box and am choosing a reward when someone invites me to a group. I end up being stuck on the screen with the reward choices and am unable to do anything, usually I have to end up logging out and back in. Easy to avoid, for the most part, but still annoying. As for your idea that they can just "fix the problem"...I think it is much more complicated than that. I have no idea (but the Devs probably do) how much money they loose when they have unscheduled downtime, having an extended downtime (even if it is planned) would result in loss of revenue and lots of complaints from subscribers on down via the forums, FB, twitter and other social media thingys. I don't blame them for not wanting to go down this path.
4. Players have been blaming the PS3 for almost every issue in the game since its invention...I know that I am guilty of this. No new hairstyles? PS3 fault! No new weapon (since shield)? PS3 fault! You know what we can credit the PS3 to doing? Keeping the game alive. Until a new source of revenue opens up *cough XBox cough* we are all going to have to "deal" with the limitations that the PS puts on the game.
5. Fun is subjective. What you find fun, OC, did not appeal to the vast majority of the player base. I think Spytle said that only about 1% of the population beat the content. I enjoyed OC as well, but to say they were the best raids in the game is also subjective. Personally, I think Khan, all the Bat Caves, and the FoS raids were the best. Inner and FoS2 were the most challenging raids at tier, Sub and FoS3 taught meaningful lessons in mechanics of the game that echo even today. I understand that I am in an interesting position since I was able to play these raids when they were the top tier and there was no way that one was able to bypass them. Players coming into the game today do not have this chance, they are encouraged to get to top CR ASAP, not only due to the CR relevancy thing, but also by the community. Thus they miss some of the best raids in the entire game that teach the players how to actually do the content like how/when to block and roll. I still have fun in this game. I enjoy the content, the developing story lines, styles, and base decorating. These are the things I like to do/collect, so I do/collect them. ^.^

But then I would make the point that people don't necessarily learn a playing style, but learn a raid. The players of three and a half years ago had to work together to get through the content, but then when they get to a current content, they apparently have not learned anything from it.

I remembered this after reading your post:

Xena: Warrior Princess

Xena: People are too quick to go for their sword. It should always be the last resort.
Gabrielle: I don't want to learn to kill. I want to learn to survive.

Xena: All right. The rules of survival. Number one: if you can run, run. Number two: if you can't run...surrender, and then run. Number three: if you are outnumbered, let them fight each other...while you run. Number four...
Gabrielle: Wait. More running?

Xena: No. Four is where you talk your way out of it, and I know you can do that. It's wisdom before weapons, Gabrielle.

Xena: Don't confuse defending yourself with using a weapon. When you pull a sword you have to be ready to kill.

Xena: The first time you pick up a sword, you become a target. And the moment you kill...everything changes. Everything.
Gabrielle: You're waiting for the right moment to say I told you so, aren't you?

Xena: Nope. I'm waiting for you to say it for me.
Gabrielle: Hah!...It's not like your breasts aren't dangerous enough.

Xena: See how calm the surface of the water is. That was me once. And then....(throws the rock in)....the water ripples and
churns. That's what I became.
Gabrielle: But if we sit here long enough it will go back to being still again. You'll go back to being calm.

Xena: But the stone's still under there. It's now a part of the lake. It might look as it did before but it's forever changed.

You misunderstand, my point is that they learned how to work their powers to for the best uses, nowadays you have tanks that believe punching a boss and blocking forever is good enough, or troll that have no idea what pot or pull is, or the "eat as much power as you can healer", I can understand the why you and some others try to defend the 1-2-3-4 setup, its easy, it gives everyone a chance to feel good if the right power was purchased, but it doesnt change the fact that a game should present more challenge than pressing buttons.

Like it was said above (i think you did) there's macros now and they are used in game, the fact that someone can use macros to substitute the "combat" process should tell you enough about the quality of the combat mechanics.

This speaks to me because... even if i don't like to admit it a long time ago, i was taking a walk minding my own bussines, and then... i too, threw a rock in a lake. O.O

Jake: Look let me explain some junk about dating.

Jake: Right now, you are a Tier 1 which is hugging. But pretty soon, you'll be at Tier 2 which is smooching. Then down the road you'll make it to Tier 5 where she'll let you discover all 15 feet of her long, beautiful stomach and after a while you get to tier 8 where you touch her horn for the very first time. Very special.

Finn: What about Tier 15?

Jake: STAY AWAY FROM THAT! DO NOT DO TIER 15!

But like I said before. That's our current situation and therefor even when it is this easy, there are still people who aren't aware of the ins and outs of their powerset/role. So to make it even more difficult would put us even further away from being able to pug raids with good mechanics. I guess what I'm trying to say is make the powersets and roles easier to understand so you can make the raids harder.

What is so confusing about the powers/roles now? Doesn't one just have to read the descriptions?

Also the ease of learning roles does not correlate in to raid difficulty.

I'll tell you what my first boss told me once: " No matter how simple or how hard the task, there will always be a best and a worst guy at it. It's rarely because some are best than others, but usually because some try best than others." (something like that)

The point is, even if they dumbed it to the point where you only needed to press one button at one specific time, i can assure you, you would find people asking for a bigger lapse of time in which they could press said button.

It has never been an issue before to learn your role/power and learn a raid. Both went hand and hand. It wasn't such a huge problem when you were T3 for someone to say "Hey man, can you use a debuff move." or "I need you to try and pull the adds." or "Burn adds before the boss."

The problem is that we are saying these things in T6 and T7 raids. There is a problem and a disconnect somewhere. I shouldn't have to tell a 120+ player to do basic actions.

The problem is that word "easier". Nothing should be made easier...people should be made to learn. People want everything made so easy that you dont have to try. With the make it easier logic we should just be able to queue up for and instance and go do laundry. By the time I come back, raid completed, all loot 120 gear and top of the board.

(Delete Post)

sorry to put you on blast, but doesn't seem like you read my posts in this thread.
1. learning roles and powers is very easy. still, there are enough players who are unable to do this.
2. "ease of learning roles does not correlate into raid difficulty", I never said this. I said I'd rather have people understand their roles and powers. The easier that process is, the higher chance everybody knows their roles and powersets. The higher the chance everybody knows their roles and powersets, the more difficult you can make the raids because the risk of pugging would be less because you know other players are able to contribute.

(edit: and to be clear, my post was in reaction to The Question who said he wanted to make the powersets more difficult again or at least back to where it was more difficult to figure out good loadouts because that's what made it fun for him. with easy, I'm referring to something along the lines of what it is now.)

we agree on that. there are players who are worse than others. there are always players who are not going to understand. for reasons as simple as language barriers between youtube tutorials and the player for instance. just an example.
you can make the probability as high as possible though while it still being fun. we are talking, or at least I am, talking in extremes because I hope the goal of this discussion is to come to some sort of a consensus. my point is that if you make the tools for the job more efficient and easy to use, then you can take on more complex jobs. hope that makes sense.

it's actually pretty understandable. people always get power leveled to the highest cr possible when making characters with friends or sometimes even by themselves if they take the time to learn how. back then people who did not know things in your eyes were more acceptable, because the gap between level 1 and cr 70 was acceptable to you to not have learned about debuffs. now we are at cr 131 and the same process is still going on, it's just that it's spanning a longer gap. from level 1 to cr 131. it's because in the leveling process of content where people are overpowered, they don't need to learn about their powersets and roles because they get blasted through by high dps. I agree with you, that's an issue. I just don't agree with the fact that you say that the problem of people not knowing their role has gotten worse now that we are at T7 instead of T3, because it's still part of the same issue. which should be addressed, but is not the core issue I'm debating.

Definitely agree with op on everything,

There are many things that are taken course, the test servers are really not helping these updates so why have them, the test servers are being used but somewere between the release dates and end testing date the information is not being properly managed. Secondly pc players are testing for playstation players? We have test servers but yet we still cant figure out how to balance out powers.
The way I see it is its pretty much too late to fix the problems with mark currency, pre f2p bugs, glitches and pvp because when you wait this long players are already disgusted and have made up they mind.

When players post leaving threads that should have been the red flag for a developer to chime in and find out why they are losing a customer, maybe that player would have had second thoughts.

Is FOTM somewhat appealing due to the... Earn gear per tier? (Rinse, repeat) Or the heavily instanced content and the revelant cr content/rewards?

Do many have alts? Do they use them much? What is the main reason for alts?

Other games, might utilize a long term aspect to unlock special instances or loot... WAR, spawn a dragon from collecting... Was it candles? GW2, legendary weapons/skins. Dcuo's crafting is a horrible.... Cram in a system with no long term plan... And the original plan is marginal use. Meh. Issues.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...ring-to-casual-crowd-hurting-the-game.259015/

any mention of number of subscribers per platform?? or is that implied data from "own DLC"?

DCUO has the potential to be a very long lasting game. But they don't build the game in a way which encourages longevity and player engagement. The game will die due to a lack of revenue thanks to a disengaged player base before it reaches it's maximum potential as a game.

The game has a place. This is one of the only MMOs that is like this out there. Its in its own little niche. But the dwindling number of players is what is concerning. There is just not enough players for both the Heroes and Villains to sustain a thick enough community to keep another 5 years going. EU PC Villain is damn near dead.

Daybreaks whole catalog is F2P titles so I am sure revenue is something that they look at. But I am concerned that this IP will be one they cut first if the numbers drop to much. Keeping a game live on 2 different systems with 4 different servers is not easy money.

Not always. For example, Mentals power trees neglect to mention that Psychic Resonance doesn't need to be re applied after every rotation, doesn't mention that there is a distance at which Mass Terror hits harder, doesn't mention that you cannot delay your power casts for more than .6 seconds, etc.

DCUO is getting better. I mean we have monthly content now and Elite alerts, and we have been given a timeline on the power balance and the phases so I think things are getting much better than they were in June and July.