Discussion - Has 'Elite' content become too easy, and should 'Elite Plus' content still continue?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by TheLQ-DCUO, Apr 5, 2024.

  1. ArtemisWonderWoman7 Committed Player

    The people that think elite is to easy probably run solely with a small group of people because only round 3 to 5 % of the community even run elite pluse as is. You have busted instances in omnibus that most groups can beat like new genesis now and happiness home that has failed group all the time because after clamp they became harder the when the was released. Clock tower is also a nightmare for omnibus as well. I spent 1 hour in there till I was finally the only person in there and solo what was left as the tank. Also I feel fixing server lag and maybe increasing content as a hole should take priority over anything right now. Why cater to elitist?
    • Like x 3
  2. FluffyCloud99 Committed Player

    Because people who run elite are the same people pumping $$$ into the game on day 1 of release to get all the gear first. They are also the same people spending $$$ on timecapsules for feats, they are also the ones spending $$$ for booster bundles to get the rarest styles.

    They are catering to elitists for money, as they should, they provide DB the most money probably
    • Like x 2
  3. EconoKnight XIII Legion

    Are they? Quarks are currently useless in game because these “elite” players glitched time capsules and stole money from Daybreak (and they kept their quarks and their accounts). Some brag they are still doing it even now, and I believe them.

    By chasing elites, all Daybreak has accomplished is chasing its own tail down the drain. Elite players don’t just look for every game breaking advantage to beat content; they also look for every way to do it free of charge.
  4. FluffyCloud99 Committed Player

    1: New capsules cant have their things bought with quarks.
    2: Money is still given to Daybreak outside of time capsules. Think replay badges, power changes, name changes, bases, ally xp, artifact xp, i mean damn even Adaptive augments are monetized as well as emotes.
    • Like x 1
  5. Illumin411 Loyal Player

    That's roughly what we had before. There was an issue where a large part of the endgame player base was bored and/or not challenged/engaged by the mindless button mash ease of reg but wasn't quite up to the task of elite. Sure most still tried but there's only so many 3+ hour struggle runs one can endure before saying "F this" and playing another game. substantial-crit and later E+ was introduced to replace the old elite difficulty (and then some) and regular elites were made noticeably easier for those in the middle.

    Now, even trying my best to play devils advocate I can't think of a single reason why two difficulty levels better serves the player community versus three difficulty levels. Think of any game you've played with three or more difficulty levels, usually something like "Easy", "Medium" and "Hard". Who would it be benefitting for the development team of that game to release an update patch that just removes "Medium" or "Hard"?

    I suppose one could attempt to make a case that, while beneficial, it isn't enough of a benefit to justify the cost of allocating developer resources to E+ when they could be reallocated elsewhere. Of course to be able to support that argument one would have to have a decent idea of just how much time and effort the dev team spends on E+ and also have a good idea of how beneficial the reallocation of said resources would be elsewhere.
    • Like x 1
  6. WilderMidnight Steadfast Player

    New Genesis Now is very easy...if you follow the mechanics which can also be said of any content. Its gets easier the more you play but getting eight people to cooperate is on the players. Most players completely lack any basic sense of teamwork.

    I do agree with your assessment of elite content tho. I'm in a league of one. Its always a crapshot for me. If the group knows what theyre doing its a breeze. If they don't its a nightmare. Regardless you (or anyone else) should never feel intimidated to try. Its not like youre going to really die if you wipe...

    Personally I wish we could go back to the days of FOS2 and Prime and have a few epic raids that are challenging without needing "normal" or "elite".
  7. lllStrichcodelll ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    As others said before, the issue is the middle-ground of players that enjoy Elite content as is. Sure, many only do so to get access to Elite gear but some enjoy that mode the most.

    I would prefer a system that modifies difficulty independently. That means no more E+ but also no stages 1-5.

    Personal modifiers:
    • Increase damage taken for self by x%
    • Incoming power decreased for self by x%
    • Incoming healing decreased by x%
    • All ability pets disabled (Fury, Crystal, Rsk, etc.)
    • No iconic or movement mode abilities allowed
    • Armories disabled
    • Tactical mods disabled
    • locked artifacts (only able to choose after picking "Armories disabled")
    • locked allies (only able to choose after picking "Armories disabled")
    There are some more i could add but i guess you get the picture.
    Modifiers that mainly affect the own experience and make content harder but won't affect the performance of the group by a large amount.
    You would be able to choose which of these modifiers will be active and your rewards will increase the more modifiers are active upon completion of an encounter.
    Global challenges that affect the whole group could also be implemented, but these must be activated before the instance started and with a full team of 8 players. That way you wont have a bad surprise when entering a random instance you queue'd into, expecting a regular elite run. Reopening the instance will also be disabled and only manual invites will work.
    Feats could be attached to these aswell.
  8. TheLQ-DCUO Loyal Player

    I would argue that the Ebon/DKS swap doesn't really 'break' Might DPS, as precision is in most cases as strong or stronger, especially post EOG nerf from middle of last year. The artifact effects lasting after swapping out the artifact is at most questionable, but I don't think it breaks Might DPS or adds to the issue concerning elite plus. Most DPS I play elite plus with are all Precision DPS, Gadgets Precision or Electric Precision often being the most popular.

    Gadgets is very power heavy and only works when the controller is swapping lots of artifacts to not only buff the group but provide enough power to the gadgets players. Investigating art swapping and controllers would likely have more of an effect on gadgets DPS than investigating Gadgets itself. I would even go as far as to say that this is in part why controllers swapping lots of artifacts could be seen as a requirement for playing endgame content such as elite plus.

    As I mentioned in a previous post most of the dev team now are new, and after playing the game they may feel differently about artifact swapping and what is actually an exploit. So the technicalities of both this thread and the nature of art swapping could change or be interpreted differently later on. We shall see.
  9. EconoKnight XIII Legion

    Your note about Quarks is exactly the point, They can’t make much available for Quark purchase because they know how many people would insta-purchase with their massive cache of stolen Quarks. The glitch neutered the value of Quarks. I don’t know why they even keep them.

    And you don’t think there are ways to glitch other things? There was a massive replay badge glitch years ago that was also talked about publicly. There are people still sitting on massive amounts of replay badges.

    The new people in charge need to realize the history of this game if they want to avoid chasing down the same “elite” rabbit hole. For years, the game has been murdering itself by draining development resources to chase that group.

    The devs could monetize artifact swapping with the people who *don’t* cheat and steal, but they’re too busy burning their development time to chase the people who do.

    • Like x 2
  10. Some rando Active Player

    Seeing this made me think of how it would be if they added actual minimum CR and skill points to the instances. If there are two raids for example in an episode, the first raid would require you to be something like cr 460 and have minimum 120 skillpoints, while the second raid would require you to be cr 469 and have a minimum of 122 skillpoints. While the alerts require cr 455 and 110 skillpoints.
  11. Some rando Active Player

    This sounds like a fun idea! Been playing Helldivers 2 way too much lately, and this made me think on that modifier with the automatons that lets you pick only 3 stratagems instead of the usual four. Possibility of modifiers in instances for DC are unlimited. especially with the artifact system.
    - lock 2 artifact slots
    - pre-determined instance given artifacts for each role (perfect way to showcase new arts and show the newer players how vital arts are)
    - Healers and DPS's locked out of using artifacts
    - All artifacts reverted to rank 80 for the instance

    It would be very fun and exciting to have these types of modifiers in the game.
    • Like x 1
  12. Spood Boost Well-Known Player

    They are abusing and exploiting the cool downs on the artifacts and they're circumventing their intended design, they are being abused and exploited, especially in elite + content, I'm sorry if that is an uncomfortable truth for you.

    And have you ever stopped to question why all your friends are gadgets and electric precision, perhaps you should try to be a little more objective about the imbalances that exist and are fueling negativity within the end game of DC Universe Online.
    • Like x 2
  13. zNot Loyal Player

    Not to hate against anyone but someone whosbpart of the top end players of his server so he wont admit that theres something wrong because it would hurt them the most and put them on the same level as normal endgame players if things were to change/balance allthough the game has issues providing a meaningfull challenge this wont be fixxed untill they start doing neccesary balance changes or else the same cheesers of damage and other broken/OP things are the same ones asking for harder content and want content to be adjusted for their needs i hope the devs will not continue to feed into this hypocricy
    • Like x 1
  14. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I was thinking more like SP and some kind of arti requirement. In theory, we should be able to run the content with 0 artis... and those 120 SP. However that means it will likely be easy for a group with 3x200s and 600+ SP at the same CR levels.

    I'm not a fan of this idea...but it's probably the only way they could ever 'fix' the ...'it's too easy' issue with reg...Elite now maybe even.

    I've run the reg stuff on a toon with extremely low SP/Arts/minCR in a group of similarly geared randoms....it ain't too easy at that point. Easier if you know the content...sure...but not too easy.;)
    • Like x 2
  15. Great Architect Loyal Player

    I think the difference between Elite, Elite+ and Normal is less one of difficulty, and more the way in which the members of the group approach the content. The harder versions require a lot more situational awareness, caring about mechanics, and fast crisis management (when the Healer or Tank go down, for instance). It's not the place for scoreboard chasers. They also require the patience and lack of ego necessary to learn through our mistakes, and not point fingers but solve the problem (and yes, that 100% includes my own mistakes).

    Elite and Elite+ require the group to function as a team, to teach where necessary and learn where necessary. And that is why some players find them easy, and some players find them impossible.
    • Like x 2
  16. Great Architect Loyal Player

    I don't fall into any of those categories. So at least in my case, no, they are not.
  17. BathroomPapi Level 30

    Elite feats: yes

    Elite+ feats: no

    Elite+ cosmetics/titles/ accessories: yes

    Until they remove stat clamp, elite+ feats should absolutely stop.
  18. FluffyCloud99 Committed Player

    Just because you buy a product does not mean its "catered" to you.
    Example: A kids menu at a restaurant. Its marketed and meant for kids. Adults have their own meal section. Does/should it stop adults buying from the child menu for themselves? No, it wouldn't/shouldn't.

    Using DCUO as an example: Just because they release "The ultimate lantern bundle" doesn't mean its marketed to everyone. Its for those who love the lanterns and the styles/powers associated with it. Does it stop you buying it? No, it doesn't/shouldn't

    Why do you think they added feats to time capsules?
    Why do you think they add ally favor/replays/arti xp to booster bundles along with rare styles?
    It caters to players who want to progress. If the styles in time capsules didnt give feats, elite players would not give a flying monkey about the styles they dont like.
    They buy booster bundles to get styles to sell on the marketplace, get xp and ally favor along with replays to help progress them, the styles are just extra, they are getting much more value AND if they get a style they dont like, they sell it for big money in game. Its a win win for them
  19. TheLQ-DCUO Loyal Player

    Not to take this conversation too much off of a tangent, but it still isn't breaking Might DPS (or if you prefer it doesn't make Might DPS overpowered). Might DPS is not broken in Elite Plus content, if anything its more at a disadvantage than with the flexibility of Precision DPS with Flurry Shot Mastery/Shuriken Storm Mastery.

    Mechanics are the bigger factor. For example during the Thought phase in CTE+ Violent Water AOEs spawn quickly and have very little reaction time before the AOE impacts. You have little to no time to artifact swap during that phase and if you take even slightly too long to evade the AOE you run the risk of getting KO'd.

    Again once the new dev team become familiar with the game they may have a different approach to artifact swapping and keeping artifact effects active after swapping out the artifact in question.

    That's not to say you are necessarily wrong in what you are saying. Certain artifacts like Dead King's Scepter are working in a different way to what is indicated in its description with the cooldown of Orbital Assistance when swapped back into the third artifact slot. Nowhere in the artifact description does it state that Orbital Assistance occurs every time when using a superpower after swapping in the artifact, however often that is. This in itself seems unintended. For Ebon's Untethered Shadow similarly nowhere does it say that when using a Finisher after the artifact has been swapped out do you keep your stacks of Shady Loans and retain them when swapping Ebon back in after casting your Finisher. This is less clear cut than the DKS situation, as some players are working around what is described in the artifact description, rather than gaining an additional surprise effect altogether as with DKS.

    Controllers are a completely different ball game and I believe looking into Controller artifacts and artifact swapping would have a bigger impact on the game than fixing the technicalities with Might DPS currently.
  20. Great Architect Loyal Player

    Yeah, but you're saying that the people that run Elite and Elite Plus are the same people that are throwing huge amounts into the marketplace. That was a blanket statement. You didn't say "many", you didn't say "some" - you said they are the same people, and in my experience they are not. A portion of them may be - just as a portion of the cosplayers may be, and a portion of the casuals may be - but by a mile (at least on EU) the people playing Elite and Elite Plus are people that are dedicated to solving that content, or who already have, and can now run it comfortably. I'm somewhere on the bottom rungs when it comes to E+, but it doesn't take long in content with people that are further on than me to see the difference in attitude compared to the usual suspects in Normal, or the can-do attitude I see from people busy learning Elite. In E+ it's common to see people with full E gear, Maxed Augs and 200 Arts, but I rarely if ever see them in regular Elite. Which means those guys aren't opening their wallets - certainly not on the scale you suggest.