Devs, is there a plan so that we don't have to re-explore the same artifacts x times for our rerolls

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Tolly, Aug 8, 2022.

  1. Brit Loyal Player

    I understand this, but I entirely maintain my point.

    Making Artifacts unlockable on Alts does not significantly decrease revenue. I personally suspect it increases revenue.

    For a player to level an Artifact, it still costs the exact same amount of money. A new expansion comes out? You have to pay to level the new artifact. None of that is lost.

    Literally the only situation where any revenue is lost would require:

    - Player levels an Artifact on one character.
    - Player wishes to level that exact same Artifact on a second character.
    - Player would have done this through the spending of large sums of money to advance this alt.

    That is the only scenario where any income is lost. All three of those conditions have to be met.

    - If the player has not previously leveled the artifact, they still have to. The cost is the same.
    - If the player wants to level artifacts for an alt, but those artifacts are not the same ones leveled on the main, they still need to be done from scratch. The cost is the same.
    - If the player would have leveled this alt's artifacts without spending significant money (using free drop Nth Metal, for example, and not caring about getting it done fast because Alts are unplayable). No revenue was previously going to be gained, so no revenue was thereby lost.

    In contrast, the following conditions create MORE income.

    - If an alt suddenly becomes a playable option, for example with two useful unlockable Artifacts, then paying for a third suddenly makes a lot more sense.
    - If an alt suddenly becomes a playable option, then leveling Artifacts of other roles suddenly becomes useful, giving people a reason to level Artifacts that otherwise would have been ignored.
    - If a large scale change of the game allowed players to effectively play more than a handful of characters, then Subscription model presenting 10 extra slots actually holds value. When players subscribe (and remain subscribed) to keep access to these alts, they become a source of ongoing revenue.
    - If an alt were to be made endgame viable, the player immediately also has a need for skill points, meaning a further investment into Replay Badges that otherwise would be ignored since the character cannot be viable without Artifacts.

    The perfect storm of conditions for losing money just isn't happening frequently. Most people simply do not bother with alts in their current state.

    The proposed changes, by making alts playable, increases the value of having alts. It makes spending money on them actually worthwhile.

    It's the question of the $100 hamburger versus the $2 hamburger. The community will spend more money if they feel like they are getting more value for that money. Right now, spending money on alts serves no purpose, because alts are just unplayable without hundreds of dollars.

    But if the cost of a viable alt became more reasonable, let's say $20 instead of $500, then substantially more people will do it. And when more people do it, the end result actually makes more money.

    As a small business owner, I'm sure you understand how profit margins work. Companies like McDonalds and WalMart make billions on penny-margin expenses, making literally just pennies of profit on items, but selling the items with such bulk that the profit massively adds up.

    And, as I was pointing out with digital purchases, the digital items have no intrinsic cost. It is not a physical item that has to be paid for. Whether they sell 1 of them, or 10,000 of them, the cost for developing the item is the same, and there is no additional expense for selling more. Instead, selling more is flatly increase in profit.

    With digital items especially, cheaper price tags result in higher volume sales which leads to higher overall profits.

    It's better business. I don't argue against Dimensional Ink making a profit. This business is their job. However, they can make MORE profit while also treating their customers better.

    And sometimes, shockingly, when you treat your customers better, you actually get more customers.
    • Like x 7
  2. Tolly Committed Player

    I think it would make it easier for people to come back to DC than the other way around, because let's not forget that a lot of people quit because of the artefact system, and if we announce a more flexible system, I imagine they will be more motivated to come back.
    • Like x 4
  3. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    Again thou, I never made ANY claim that there shouldn’t be something implemented to make them more alt friendly. I even stated earlier that I suggested an idea to a dev to allow for them to be more alt friendly. I’m case the idea is accepted I won’t say what it is but at the end of the day players need to understand that it’s still a business. Some players that have been arguing in this thread are talking in absolute. “Make them account bound”, “Make them account wide (ie if one toon gets it they all get access to it”. That is what I am against. Players wants everything in absolutes. These request always get denied since there is no incentive for them to do so.

    Players here tried to paint is as I was against any idea which is total and complete BS. I just understand how businesses work. If they accepted these absolute request than there would definitely be profit loss. That profit loss would then have to be made up elsewhere through the minimization of other areas. What’s to say those areas wouldn’t affect main toons?

    Regarding your example of what players will cause profit loss. Players are currently set up around a couple group types:

    The whales: player who already spend to max out arts and allies for multiple toons for both roles.
    The average player: these players will have a main toon and some alts that get left over.
    The simple players (no real name but different than the average): some players don’t care about alts and only play one toon. They may have the occasional alt for seasonal but overall they don’t care about the state of their alts.

    The simple and whale are the 2 extremes of groups one maxing out the arts on multiple toons while the other not caring about their alts. A change like what’s presented would really only get the average player to spend money. The lower players who only care about their main won’t spend because their only goal is there main. Yes they would benefit from this but doesn’t change that they only care about their main. So this leave the other 2 groups.

    The whales are small in number but do bring in the bulk of the games profits. The other group are far larger in number but don’t spend as much. The biggest number that the devs look at is if the amount that they get from the bulk of the player base will be more than the amount that the whales already spend.

    So no. It’s not as simple as “make this available and you make money”. You also stop gaining money from the people whales who would end up having all those arts on alts virtually become nth banks for the next art.
  4. Tolly Committed Player

    This is a detail that will have to be taken into account, because nowadays, players want to have "everything" right away, everything quickly, if it's too long, they give up this kind of game!
    • Like x 1
  5. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    No. You THINK there would be profit loss. As far we know, which is nothing, we are all just guessing. What if, instead of immediately thinking they'd lose money you consider this. They might say get 1 out of ever 10 people to pony up cash to level up arts for an alt. Great, profit. But if they created a system that was more approachable and affordable they might triple that first profit margin by opening up a more user friendly revenue. We win, they win. They make more money long term because more people are willing to buy it than drop a ton of cash doing something they already poured a ton of time and money into.

    You ASSUME they'd lose money. Because no one here on the forums knows how a business works but you amirite?
    • Like x 1
  6. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    A good example would be the feat unlocking vs style unlocking. Which get used more?

    When feat unlocking was introduced, I dropped $300 on replays to bring an alt equal to my main. It was great. And this was half the amount of SP than we have now. Edit: I've also done it a few times since with more SP than when first launched.
    When style unlocking was introduced... I spent maybe $30 to get some rare style and I felt dirty about it. If the cost of the styles were closer to how they priced feats (1 = *, 3 = **, 5 = ***) I might have dropped WAY more than I actually did. Now I just get styles on one character and one character only. I have alts that could use those styles, but I wont pay it.
    • Like x 3
  7. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    … seeing how you deny all the stuff I said about ways to lower art grind it’s no surprise you think it’s as simple as 1 in 10 will spend money and therefore means gains.
  8. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    it was an example. it was a demonstration to show a scenario. a hypothetical with made up numbers to display a point. but yeah. focus on the made up numbers instead of that actual point.
  9. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    I did that because it’s what you do. You claim the devs didn’t do anything to make arts more alt friendly. I gave you examples of everything they changed and your response was “no”. You don’t want to acknowledge any facts because they don’t support what you want.
  10. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    Erroneous. I never said they didnt do anything. Ive said they havent done enough. You pick and choose words to make your argument.
  11. DeitySupreme Steadfast Player

    You sure this isn’t you saying no?
  12. coldchilln88 Loyal Player

    I said no to your ridiculous wall of text trying to spin it like enough is done to help with alts. Because that giant wall could all just go to your main which what most people use those benefits for. They dont have enough left over to use on their alts again unless they play A TON or drop tons of money. I never said they didnt do anything for alts but i did say they've done next to nothing for ACTUAL ALT benefits besides your list of things that most people would use up on their main
    • Like x 2
  13. Toshknight Loyal Player

    that's the idea of games as a service , specially games that were once pure MMO, 15 $ a month or u dont play, but now its f2p, with many many microtransactions, when , its as i said many times, no different then mobile, and battle pass games, we are over paying the 10 dollar battlepass fee, getting 500 mc we might not need, and resources are either meant to be bought or u play a Sh%t load. just how games are until mixed genre games go away or , micro transactional loot boxes or capsules stop ruling the market
    • Like x 1
  14. Drathmor Unwavering Player

    take it from someone with over a decades of experience with alts in this game I have 19 alts and 6 were generally active at all times

    Don't do it

    in the long run your simply hurting your mains progression. save your self the time and effort and stick with a main just switch powers if you need a change
    • Like x 2
  15. GermanM Committed Player

    A viable solution (I think) will be give people the posibility to get a less lvl artifact of one already lvl up. For example if you lvl up an artifact to 160lvl or 200lvl then you will get the chance to claim a 120lvl version of that one in one of your alters (but that can only be done one time)

    Give a 120lvl artifact will not damage devs income (i believe), because in the end of the day we lvl those puppies to that stage without seals. that will help make alters strong fast and motivate people to spend more money in retry badges to raise their stat points.
    • Like x 1
  16. Tolly Committed Player

    And that's why a lot of players are going back to more traditional MMORPGs or hoping for more of the same with upcoming MMORPGs, some of which don't hesitate to announce themselves as such.

    well in addition to a somewhat empty MMORPG market lately too :D
  17. Stanktonia Dedicated Player

    They could give us an item that grants additional (character bound) nth metal to the alt of our choice
  18. Tolly Committed Player

    Relaunching the subject, can this be seriously considered by the DCUO managers and finally have it in DCUO?
    • Like x 1
  19. GhostRyder3000 Committed Player

    Ummmmm..... Have you met Diety?? [IMG]
    • Like x 1
  20. jpharrah1010 Steadfast Player

    I wouldn’t mind if we shared arts with our characters at the current price that it costs if you want to pay to level them or the current amount it takes to fully level them

    But if they won’t let them share then I think the cost of leveling should be significantly lower money wise, and in game how ever long it takes to get full purple gear (not from drops by from marks) make that be the amount of time it takes to rank the artifact to 140… however much time it takes to get the non elite vendor gear that should be how long it takes to get the art to 160 and however long it takes to get elite should be how long it takes us to get to 200… no longer let us share the nth metal between characters. I think that is a fair amount of time for a new person coming to get three arts leveled to atleast 160.

    As for ally’s… so long as ally favor is shared among toons then ally’s should be shared among toons. If each alt had access to their own ally favor then I say the way I described how I feel arts should be leveled should be applied to ally’s … to get to level 6 takes the same amount of time to get full purple gear when purchased at vendor ..8 gets you into the base yellow vendor gear and 10 should take as long as it takes to get full elite

    I personally find that a fair amount of time with in game work… I have no idea where the artifact should be priced at to make it less expensive but right now the price of leveling is insane.

    Like I said in another thread leveling an ally from 5-10 is over 300 dollars if I spent my money doing that … that is just crazy I’d never drop that much cash if it was cheaper you’d get more people inclined to level it through cash.

    But either way as it is now it is not alt friendly in the slightest .. maybe it is slightly better than it was before but not by any significant amount.
    • Like x 1