Devs, is there a plan so that we don't have to re-explore the same artifacts x times for our rerolls

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Tolly, Aug 8, 2022.

  1. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    It's not an assumption, but a tactic. The use of extreme hyperboles to discredit an idea is a means to beat down any kind of change they don't like. It's definitely something happens on the open forums to the point a lot of players who did have legitimate requests or concerns just stopped altogether. I'm not saying everyone does it, but it's definitely something I see getting used a lot. Doesn't matter what side you are on, it's bound to happen.
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  2. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    Nooo! We settled on me being the spy!!!
    • Like x 1
  3. Tiffany6223 Loyal Player

    Well, I am a super heroine with a secret identity meow .... :D
    • Like x 2
  4. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    Except it’s not a tactic but common sense. It’s a company. A company is designed to make money. People are essentially asking them to be ok with not making money. That’s not how businesses work. If they allow for changes like this than they will just monetize something else. It’s common sense. It’s literally part of the game. Look at dlcs. When a dlc gives more marks per week than the gear will cost more. When the marks per week is lower than the vendor gear cost less. They made SMs farmable and they added vendor tiered pets. Players found ways to glitch a raid open world and the devs fixed it. People found HH and they reduced the marks. They saw raids gave more marks than a spotlight raid and they adjusted the SM rewards.

    It’s a cause and effect. They already said they would do something to make arts more alt friendly. But asking for arts for alts to be virtually free is a direct cut to their profits which means they will make up the money elsewhere. That is what I’m against.
  5. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    I think you are reaching here. There may be some players that want freebees, but not a lot of them are asking in this thread.

    Heck, I'm down for paying for an option to allow us to do it faster. If you read my post above. The problem is, you are "they just want it handed out." when that's not what is being said. It's totally a tactic.
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  6. Tiffany6223 Loyal Player

    I'm curious in what way(s) Daybreak/Dimensional Ink will make arts more alt friendly. I think they will be announcing something maybe around the time the next DLC gets announced to garner greater enthusiasm. All of my arts on both my hero / villain are at 200 already but it might be nice to try to level another up to see how it works. :)

    The ways listed by Deity Supreme to level up arts are very feasible ways of doing so, but it takes time. Time waiting on bonus weeks to arrive, time waiting on the membership bonus of nth metal / seals, eccetera eccetera, they are all feasible but takes time. When your alt is hampered by not being as powerful as it could be because of an under leveled art, it is frustrating. We want to solve the problem as quickly as possible, that is the natural human reaction.

    The time it takes to level up an alt seems to be the primary problem when drilling it down to its most basic aspect. Perhaps (purr-haps) adjusting the amount of time it takes to level an art is how the devs will work towards solving the alt problem.
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  7. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    Except I never said everyone. I even said “not you” to rag when I made that statement. You are trying to make it seem like I said everyone wants the freebie which in itself is a stretch. I also never stated I’m against them making any changes at all. I even made a suggestion to a dev privately which may help. The difference is that it’s not a stretch that they would find other ways to make money if they purposely cut their profits in one area. There is always a cause and effect. Even when companies offer sales. Yes it’s nice for the consumer. But at the end it’s also because they want to get people who don’t normally spend to actually open their wallets.
  8. RavNoc Dedicated Player

    But if you think about how players are already giving what the devs would normally expect on a main, to have to spend just as much a 2nd or 3rd time for an alt is just predatory and unnecessary. Key words "as much".

    If I don't put any money into them on my Main, they definitely aren't getting any for an alt.
    If I put a lot of money into them on my Main, why should I care enough to do it again on an alt that isn't priority?
    Players are already just dropping whatever is leftover into alts artifacts and slowly leveling them without dropping a penny anyway.
    These are just examples. Is a major portion of their profits really coming from artifacts for alts? Especially when most just wait until 2x xp because alts aren't priority? Yeah, they might look for other ways to monetize... BUT if they made the game more alt friendly that = more consisting happy paying customers = more $$$ anyways. Players would most likely still have to fork over for most of the leveling process. Even if the XP requirement was halved after reaching 200 on a 'specific' artifact. Account Bound you'd still have to level the artifact to 200 in the 1st place and constantly have to transfer them in the shared bank between toons.

    The other ways they could monetize would probably also have simple ways to get around it, such as the examples for artifacts you have stated as well.

    Just throwing different perspectives out there.
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  9. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    That's the thing, players are asking for better options, including monetization, to build alts effectively. As it is, it's not sustainable for the end user and they aren't getting money anyways. Look at the launch of the ally system. It was such a lukewarm response they had to quickly revamp how players acquired it. Then look at what it takes to max one legendary. It was intended for one character accounts.
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  10. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    Again. I never stated I was against making things more alt friendly. But there is a HUGE difference between making things alt friendly and asking for drastic changes. Making arts account bound is a huge change that will cut a large portion of their profits. And I do mean a lot. Yes most do have one main toon and alts that get left over. However the same goes at the end of the spectrum. Some have alts with maxed arts and sp. I know someone who even has arts at high levels on alts they don’t even get played often.

    Let’s say they made arts account bound. I’ve even seen request asking for arts to be made like currency where all toons have unlimited access to. A lot of these whales would then have alts with arts sitting there waiting to be fed for new arts. This means that for some time the game will be losing money while these arts get used up. You also have some that literally don’t play alts just cause they don’t want to. So having arts account wide would be pointless since they won’t even need them. A change like this would o my affect those who spent periodically and have alts. Yes this group may be larger than either one of the other groups. But will that be enough to make money from the whales? You don’t know and I don’t know.

    And for the record I would benefit greatly from this change since my main literally has arts for every role at 160+. Having alts with 200 arts whatever little reason I have to spend on arts for will be gone since I’ll have arts acting as banks ready to be fed next double nth or when new arts get released. And all the nth I would have used then would instead be saved up for an ever further amount of time.

    This is what some don’t seem to get. It’s never as simple as “make them account bound and players would be great full and spend money”. Spend money on what? As much as people say this game is a money sink. Outside of arts there really isn’t much to spend on. Replays? Stabilizers? What’s to say that they won’t just add a different money sink? One that affects everyone on mains.

    I’m all for making the game alt friendly. I used to ask for this myself before too. And they added things to make things better. Heck I remember when you couldn’t unlock feats. That was truly alt unfriendly. They then added the unlock system to help. But guess what. At the cost of replays. And now people complain that requiring replays to unlock feats is alt unfriendly.
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  11. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    Read the response I did above..
  12. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    Since your scenario proves that account bound artifacts are bad, how about scenarios of making it work?

    Like, package an item option. Buy packages on the MP that allows you to package up an item to convert it to account bound. So if it's opened, it will now be character bound to the alt. Other games have had this system before. (In some cases, you can gift it to others, but let us not go that route.) This is a compromise. Yes, it doesn't help the same artifacts, but there can be other options that would allow that.

    What about a system that lets you buy a built artifact to the level that you had already? Like, lets say you had a level 200 Transformation artifact on one character, you can pay to unlock from a vendor for an alt.

    There is also options of using in game currency, like Source Marks to unlock the artifact.

    The problem I have with your posts, you pooh-pooh every idea and make it sound like we should be ashamed to even ask for a change with out really giving alternatives. That's not a discussion at that point.
    • Like x 2
  13. OneWhoLaughed Committed Player

    What do you guys think is the churn rate for this game per year? 10%? 15%?
    And what do you guys think is the growth rate?

    I'm of the opinion artifacts are not alt-friendly, and allies even less so, but there is literally no way you could spin this to shareholders based on the answers to the above questions. It's a huge source of revenue. See also: Dec 2021.

    I've contemplated this scenario ad infinitum and there's not much devs can do. Here's where I'm leaning towards now thought-wise:

    - allies should have never launched as character bound, but here we are
    - we need more guaranteed sources of favor, like smaller amounts in caps and also more consistent catalyst drops for both arts & allies
    - we need a discount on ally cost after collecting them on another character
    - we need to make artifacts 'integratable' and therefore transferrable until levelled or equipped
    • Like x 1
  14. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    Yes something is bound to happen. A dev already said they would consider something in the future. I’m not against it at all. I’m just against anything that can potentially shift the monetization to mains
  15. Skoll Well-Known Player

    I find it hilarious how anyone can defend this games monitization.
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  16. Proxystar #Perception

    I agree.

    The artifacts in this game are a disgusting mess with respect to allowing players to run alts or even change powers.

    Once upon a time we could just spend $10 when bored and much more easily even change roles entirely

    Can't do that anymore because of the cluster $#^& that is how ridiculous artifacts have become

    And yes it's mess because we're then expected to level them up on alts too, it actually legitimately makes me stop playing my alts as much because the capabilty of the alts is just so demonstrably worse, it's just garbage nonsense that needs to stop.

    Artifacts need to be turned into a legacy system that applies to your entire account you level the artifact you place what you want active in a slot like allies and that persists across every character, imprintable to armories as well, pressing the saved armory simply reloads a saved combination

    The same can be done with allies as well which is equally ridiculous

    Making the system like this would get rid of tac swapping too, but if I had this level if reasonable access I'd take the trade off.
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  17. BumblingB 15000 Post Club

    That's really the problem, huh? It will affect players' mains? So should we just give up then? If having alts affects the mains, then what's the point of having alts then?
    • Like x 1
  18. DeitySupreme Devoted Player

    Ok now you’re trying to strong man the argument. Again, for the idk how many times, I’m not saying to not make them more alt friendly. I’ve said multiple times that I’m in favor of making arts more alt friendly. However changes shouldn’t be made to the point that they will need to make up the lost revenue through other means that COULD affect players mains.

    It’s not one or the other as you’re trying to make it seem. It’s about finding a way to make it easier for alts in a way that could still be cost effective for them as a company.
  19. willflynne 10000 Post Club

    Running alts/multiple characters in the game has always meant more time and effort is going to be spent. The more characters you have, the more time/effort will be spent. Plus that has increased as time has gone on, with more content added, more things to chase and so on and so forth.

    So while the path could be smoothed over a bit, perhaps folks might need to start stopping and thinking things over before really committing to going whole hog on every character. Doing so is a conscious choice. The game doesn't require anyone to be maxed out to play, even though it can be helpful in certain content.

    Choose to have and play alts/multiple characters at top levels? Best be prepared to accept everything that comes with making that particular choice, then.
    • Like x 2
  20. Tolly Committed Player

    Here the question is not to easily xp an artifact, but to avoid having to xp x times the same artifacts and don't be surprised that people see you like this because 3/4 of your interventions are negative towards any idea proposed by players here, even when they can be good, besides myself, I have difficulty to see you as a player about your interventions on the post, because you are always negative.

    You are always defending Daybreak's income, but in that case, if every idea is a loss of income for you, why do they often do double XP arteaact events and why did they decide to make the game free without the need for a subscription? You have to admit that to do that, they don't seem to be in a global worry of money income, otherwise they would never have done it. So I don't see how this would be more harmful to Daybreak, plus considering everyone with 200 and full 200 artifacts now, I really doubt it would really hurt them to see the artifacts in the direction of this idea, not to mention all the players who stop playing in the meantime out of boredom with the game, or just to find better elsewhere, the EU server has never been so empty...
    • Like x 1