Devs honestly what is your vision for pvp?

I think all people want is a consistent experience that will work on consoles, because that's where most of the players and the money is. Crowd control had been an issue long before the last pvp revamp. What countered the inconsistencies of it were support roles and the ability for teams to play defensively. The last revamp made tanks completely irrelevant, trolls essentially have to pve to keep any kind of power going, and healing is a spam fest which usually is a waste of power anyway. They gave us an enormous amount of health and toughness on our gear and somehow one/two shotting is more common than ever.

Windows are a complete guessing game on the PS. One match they seem fine, the next they are off by SECONDS. If this is the fundamental background for everything in the game I think burning it is exactly what should happen.

Back to my original point, PC players should not have such authority in regards to pvp mechanics. It is obvious the two are having very very different experiences and should be treated as such.

It doesn't make any of what is said less true, especially from a developmental stand point. The developers need to focus on straightening out those issues so performance is consistent, which is something I think pretty much everyone can agree on. Changing it at all by shortening the windows would change every aspect of the game pretty much. Getting rid of it entirely would have even more of a drastic effect.

Also nothing can one shot anymore. The only thing that can one shot is a zerked rage DPS and that isn't even technically one shotting. Even with HL, which has the best counter punishment in the game can't two shot someone unless your healer is completely asleep. Though it's pretty widely agreed a lot of those things need to be toned down.

I disagree with this entirely, but I'm not asking for that.

I'm tired of reading the same arguments. Mepps asked us what we wanted to see in PvP and a lot of people came to give their opinion. Respectfully disagree with the opinion if you must, but please give it a rest with the back-and-forth.

It's true that the skill cap for baiting and counters is higher in PvP now than before, but the skill level was not in actuality low in 2011. It's just that DIFFERENT skills are now emphasized. In 2011, I could take a group of 8 PvE players into arenas and win against "PvP only" premades because (even though my players were unpracticed at counters) they were great at working together, following directions, spot-on healing, spot-on power, spot-on cleanses, and just supporting each other in general. Those are all real, tangible skills.

Yes, they were also good at "noob" PvE rotations but that's just not the whole story. A team who had all those skills PLUS awesome counters would probably still win, but it didn't matter because at least my guys were still having fun because they could put up a fight. Today, gear and role mechanic differences between PvE and arenas are so great that they feel like 2 completely different games.

I understand all too well that some people here really, really want what's best for PvP.. but let's be real. The majority of DCUO players are PvE oriented PS owners. Casual players. Should we only listen to people who hate PvE to decide what happens with PvP? Or can we find solutions that appeal to the skills of PvP players, PvE players, and players who do both?

Idk about the other servers, but the USPC PvP population is low. I don't think I've ever seen it so low. It's good to emphasize skill, but it's also important to emphasize accessibility. PvP needs to be able to appeal to people who can't farm immunity well or bait counters beyond just feat/style hunting. People like PvE for those reasons, yes, but more than that they enjoy feeling like they're a useful part of a team.

Agree completely.

I try to get into arena PvP in DCUO and lose interest very quickly. Legends PvP/PvE is just garbage in my opinion. The frustrating part is forcing yourself into an aspect of the game you don't enjoy just for a shot at feat points to boost SP and maximize your character. Gamers like me, who don't like the pvp system of DCUO (get hit by million different stun variations until you die), ruin the experience for those who do enjoy it. I'm only there for a shot at a feat in a match I'll prob lose anyway lol. If I get lucky and carried through a win, bonus. It is what it is, I can't think of any way to repair it.

After reading some of this do you think it has helped or not? And does this help with any ideas for a change quick and any ideas for big changes to come that'll take time?

You are so so right. I suppose some of the top pvp players on console coming in here and agreeing with everything I say, including one who beat out the rest of the PC competition at Live last year to face you in the finals, I guess they don't know what they're talking about either.

I came into this thread with no attitude or insults towards anybody so I'm trying to figure out why the hostility and insults from you here. Hanging out with Smile or something?

Actually, you'll come to learn that a lot of the best PvP players on console are some of the best PvE players as well.

Right. Because competition was massively stacked as SOE live...
And even then what was the score in finals? 0 to 800+ something, wasn't it?

But on a serious note, can you please quote the post which makes you think that Eminence, let me quote you on this:

?

Wow, you guys seriously aren't interested in making friends. Just want things your way so you can dictate how everybody else should play according to 4-5 people.

He can speak for himself or you can go back to my original post here where I stated changes that people want and see the likes on it.

It is quite amusing that a 1/2 dozen people or so all throughout the forums regarding PvP seem to be basing their claims to being knowledgeable but they rarely if ever lose and that Clutch has won so many tournies because most of that reputation is coming from winning against the smallest PvP community in the game on any platform.

Slower ques, dwindling FNL participation, far less people pvping than before in a community that is growing smaller and smaller on a platform that is growing smaller the majority of which is due to the changes that came with this current season that all of you are praising and you still think these changes were good?

Either way, there's a problem and problems only need one thing and that's to be solved.

Getting rid of it entirely was exactly what I meant by burning it earlier, so you'd need to a bit more specific what you mean then.

You brought up how Eminence fought Clutch. The fight was pretty one sided. Emenince is a great PvP players
and I respect his ability to play the game but the results at SOE Live speak for themselves.

They launched the new season without fixing crowd control and breakouts. A lot of competition ceased because of that alone.

Its interesting how all he mentions himself is:

So he does not like changes on support roles.

And then there is this:

In response to "counters should be adjusted to 350ms, the standard set by the Devs" and "if if windows are odd then they should be fixed."
Let me think. Oh right, this is completely against what you want.
But suddenly he becomes valid argument with:

You got it all wrong. I have huge respect for Eminence. In truth, form what i have seen. i think he is better legends player than ACE1 is. I also respect his opinion. I may disagree with lots of it, but i respect it. He is strait forward and not full of bull****.
Every now and then i troll, mostly i'm a nice guy. But what i am the most is honest and what i can't stand though is bull****.
And that's why i respect Eminence and not you, even though on some stuff you guys may agree.

Ok, I am not against the idea behind the current combat mechanics, sometimes they work... most of the time they don't. You 4 seem to be under the assumption that the game would just fall apart if it was any other way... which it was for quite sometime before I ever heard of any of you guys and before a serious decline in PS pvp activity. In fact, there have been multiple threads stating how much players miss the "old days" of pvp, where the combat mechanics were essentially the same but worked VERY differently.

I'm not asking for those old glory days to come back, because I know how long we would have to wait for anything like that to be brought back. I would like to see the current mechanics put into a state where it will be precise and consistent on every platform, but the devs have yet to show us that they are capable of making that happen. If that's the case, then indeed burn it to the ground.

Also, relying on the opinions of a handful of pc players for the "backbone of the entire game" just sounds like bad business to me (not to mention you are the only person who has shown any kind of respect). I'm truly curious how many paying customers would feel about that.

That's the thing, it's not an assumption. That was confirmed by Tunso at SOE Live that even adjusting just the timings would impact the game in the manner described.

First just wanted to say that Infinite Soda was a great idea and SC reset saved alot of time from us having to que Area 51 to do a competitive scrim.

1. Make Tanks Viable in PvP and bring back RPS system.
2. Reduce power costs back to what they use to be. PvP trolls now only use 2 powers in their loadout in competitive scrims. The only role that does.
3. Remove Stat Clamping for Support Roles. Crit Clamping is ok since its been there for a while I believe but if I'm a support role and I have for example over 150+ sp & I want to mod full resto & prec I should be able to have as much Precision as I can get. Make Skill Points matter.
4. Bring back utility belts it allowed for more options from a player and since we cant use the infinite soda or the pvp breakout trinket out of arenas we could possibly put in a soder cola extreme or pve breakout trinket so we dont have to keep switching them out if we want to duel people outside of arenas.
5. Idk about PC but PS the latency, CC issues, & server lag needs to seriously be looked upon. Do a pvp event on the PS server like u did on PC and encourage people to log in at a certain time and que up certain pvp instances. So you can experience and see if the problems can actually be fixed or at least improved.
6. Home Turf Im 50/50 on bringing that back. I believe some HT mods ignored game mechanics but some were actually nice.

An Idea that I'm pretty sure people who PvP would love is Custom Scrimmage Settings. Where the person that sends the scrim can setup some stuff being allowed or not like:

WM
Buff Colas
Utility Belts

& if the other group agrees to such terms then they can que and have a friendly scrimmage.

Forgive me for not taking your word for it. The timings were different just over a year ago and the game was just fine, doesn't make any sense. Having a developer come in here and actually let us know what is going on would be incredibly more informative than hearing it from a third party. Until then I'll just go on what I know from the past 4 years of playing.

With things such as block break windows, they actually reduced the vulnerability time. Previously it was 1650ms, now its 1350ms. Though I do agree having a developer come in here to give more details on the matter would be appreciated.