Devs: Can we revisit the minimum CR levels for episodes?

Ever since the CR skip, I've been watching a lot of fresh CR 255's getting slaughtered left and right in JLD content (or sometimes, if they're lucky, just being really ineffectual), and NOT because they don't know how to play. I've seen HPs getting chunked, trolls who can't stun, and healers struggling to keep a team up. It seems to me that having CR play as the sole gatekeeper to content is insufficient. And honestly? I've seen players with CRs 5, 10, 15 levels or the minimum CR struggle to be effective in content.

I'd love it if instead of just doing a CR check, the game would check individual stats before letting you in... you could check them all against a set table for the role you wish to queue as, or focus on role-relevant stats like say, Resto for Heals, Dom & HP for Tanks, etc. You could ding those numbers through any combination of gear and SP, I really don't care.

The truth is... "all CRs are NOT created equal". Some 255's are fresh off of the skip, while others used replay tokens (or old fashioned hard work) to boost their SPs. As a result... some are ready to play the "appropriate" content, while the others...notsomuch.

Ok, I'm done - please let me know if you agree, or if I should be tarred and feathered in the middle of Limbo Town lol

I see what you did there...

Tar and feather? No.

Strongly suggest that folks leave the gatekeeping to the devs? Absolutely.

I've been saying there should be a minimum SP requirement for each episode. Heck there are people at 290 with under 150 SP.

i get what your saying but i have to disagree. if you want to have control over who you play with form your own group in lfg. even if it takes a little while the time you spend putting your own group together will be time saved in the actual instance.

right now the game needs more active players. ive actually seen a few old timers come back to check things out after cutting out after the revamp, too many time capsules, lack of pvp and the takes forever to level artifacts.

instead of raging at anybody who may not know how to play try leading by example.

I think you're looking for a bit of confirmation bias here. Yes, characters straight off the skip are struggling in the content. Those same players are probably walking into that content with essentially no experience with the raids. From what I've seen, experienced players who used the skip on an alt are having no real issues, enough so that you probably don't even notice the ones who used the skip. You only see it in the ones that are struggling, only notice the half of the story that confirms your initial hypothesis.

We don't need a gatekeeping that keeps out people who are fully capable of running the content. We don't need to set up artificial barriers that are so high that players are not allowed to enter content until it's so trivial that it becomes failure-proof for people with no experience.

We could benefit from some basic in-game tutorials that teach roles and essential skills though, to help those new players learn the stuff that they haven't had experience with yet. I remain firmly convinced that skill matters more than skill points, that fight mechanics make a bigger difference than stats, and that experience and training is needed more than gatekeeping and exclusionism.

The support roles being off the skip is this issue healing tanking trolling impossible with this skip. Experience d player here and even with players that are experience the struggle is real if support role players have limited sp or artifacts. I still a no for the limitations on this though btw.

That's because the original design of the "Skip to X" was truly meant for people who have a toon at end game levels and want to get another one there quickly without having to go through the full leveling process because they can also replay many of the feats not granted by the skip and at least be in a better position... not counting the augments and artifacts. The problem with it is that there is no such restriction. Any person... including someone who's never played this game before... can use it and get to that close to end-game level. When an already-experienced player with lower SP, augments, and artifacts enter content with which they are familiar... whether the instance itself is new to them or not... they already know how to do mechanics. When a brand new to DCUO player does it, unless they are already highly familiar with MMO mechanics in general and not someone here to be "Batman MMXIV," "Dick Grayson FORREAL," or any other number of duplicated-and-mutilated character names out of the comics (and I'm randomly making up names... not calling out a specific individual so if someone actually has one of those names I am wholly unaware of it) and do nothing but talk smack in the shout box, they are going to be a problem. At least those experienced with MMOs in general will have a base of knowledge from which to work.

We do need gatekeeping... but the problem is there is no good way to know whether that fresh off the skip player is a new alt of an already-seasoned DCUO player, a new character belonging to a person already familiar with MMOs in general, or one of the dressed up smack-talkers who go around holding triangle (PS4 range weapon attack... don't know the PC equivalent, sorry) in an instance. The first two get to skip past the gate. The third? Well, they're the ones that the gate needs to hold back. They need the tutorials and such that you mention to teach them roles, skills, and other things.

Hmmmm. I think we're all saying the same things, but in different ways Basically, if I had to summarize my stance in one sentence, it'd be this:

CR alone doesn't tell enough of character to adequately serve as the sole gatekeeper to content.

The points brought up so far seem to support that in their own way:

• It doesn't speak to a player's experience (Brit,Darth Piper).
• It doesn't speak to SP (TheLorax,UnitedMeck).
• It doesn't speak to support gear, like Artififacts (United/Meck)

(Apologies if I missed anyone's name/point)

I think that because of that, people need to start looking towards this as more of an actual game. Content such as JLD is high level and near end-game, meaning you're meant to be more experienced. You're meant to be stronger and/or know what you are doing. You shouldn't be meant to nonchalantly breeze through everything. The CR gatekeeping is fine as is, it's up to the player to pick up the slack and do what they need to do to be able to pass the content. If they aren't performing well enough then they may need to take a step back to set up their character better and learn what it is they need to fix/improve. After that, it's up to them and their group to communicate during the instance and work together.

How would stats affect how well somebody knows the game?

Skill points don't mean you actually have skill at the game, they are more closer to stat points/stat increases.


I get that CR 255's are fresh, but honestly it doesn't make a difference whether they came off the ship and skipped; or skipped without beating the ship; because the only tutorial in the game's been nerfed like crazy. Players can pass that without blocking, block breaking, lunging etc.


There's also Zero Tutorials on how to play support, what your secondary role does, etc.


The game's just that, unless you have a veteran or somebody from test who's playing the content on live to pass the knowledge down; players will always come into content not knowing a lot about the game; and the game still continues to simplify mechanics in order to compensate.

Honestly my idea would be to use one of those in-game pop ups(You know, the ones that link you to the MP; The DCUO home page) and use it to create a link to show players to the Oracle's database. Because from there, if they are serious about getting better at the game; there's lots of guides that they can use for research to help better their situation.

Hi, Mepps!

• Does this feel specific to cr advanced characters? That's where I've been seeing it recently, yes. In other content with "natural" progression, I don't see it anywhere near as much probably because the players have more experience (as others have mentioned).
• Does the suggested CR feel right vs. the minimum? Yes, it does! It's just all the other "supplemental" factors that I'm concerned about. CR 255 for JLD is perfect - but it's not exactly clear what the CR 255 should entail. Is that a freshly skipped CR 255 or a CR 255 with at least 150SP and 2 LVL 80 Artifacts?
• Does failing in an instance encourage getting better gear, sp, etc? Or should success be the norm regardless? No, definitely no auto-success. I'm just afraid someone not experienced with the game decides to try it out, sees the skip with the bundled episode, puts them together and thinks they should be able to breeze through it. I'm not sure expectations (ie: you should build yourself up a bit before jumping in) are being set properly, and it may discourage new players.

My $0.02 anyways

There was a really good suggestion on here some time ago, which I seem to recall you took note of at the time, that a CR skipped character should be more wholistically ready to play out of the box than merely given equipment.

They should have base generator mods, an active mainframe with all tactical mods unlocked, reasonable augments and perhaps even a choice of low level artifacts. This would help bridge the gap and I do believe it would encourage more players to actually buy a CR skip.

One thing you could try to do in the interim... don't let people queue up with a support role just because their power set allows it. They need to have an armory with gear and build out for that role in order to be able to queue in as such. I don't know how many times I've been in instances where Person X is tagged to be <role> and then says, "I don't have gear for it," when you say, "Hey Person X you were tagged as <role>. How about switching so we can get started?" And please invert the order on the role selection screen. Put Damage at the top and have the cursor start on it. Too many people are selecting both their role and Damage just because they can and just because it will help them move through the queue faster.

1st, in reply to the mentioned sp level before letting people into content... Nope. I'm cr292 and 202sp. I walk thru solo healing end game. Like barely awake playing it's so easy. Elite attempts haven't failed due to me and I expect my usual group will breeze thru them a few times this weekend. Not going to get more sp thru pvp and not buying my way up with TCs. Not needed at all. So unless it's like 150sp wall, it's not helping and probably only hurting.
2nd, everyone on the game agrees we need new players and that the roles are suffering. Devs just gave everyone a heck of a headstart. Do you have to buy some stuff? Nope. You actually don't. Start low tier stuff and take your time. Even get to be overpowered for some of it. Run events, I honestly struggled with my skipped character but I chose to jump head first into the deep end. But I did make it thru and I told the group that this was my skip character and if they needed me gone, don't waste the kick. I'll just leave. Once I have done enough stuff to get my white mods and all that on the new toon, I'll start learning to tank. I'm planning by next year. There's no rush.
Which brings me to #3. We're all noticing this because it's an influx of skippers. It's one month of free episodes. So new people get a chance to see if they like the game. Instead of chastising them for not knowing what to do, send them a tell and offer help. Don't join in on the bashing. For this month, stay out of old content if you dislike having to play with them. That's all I'm doing and I haven't noticed any of them. I'm not even planning on playing my skipper till the free month is over.
We all know this helps bring people in, no it isn't perfect but how much free stuff can they give away? Cuz the more they give the more we expect it seems.

Tho I will say, all skipped characters should be locked out of elite instances for the free month. That's just a waste of everyone's time and if they are truly new, they have no idea why.

As a fire tank that used the cr skip, trying to do pretty much any group content, even the event(!) alert, I have a new found empathy for flies that get splattered across car windshields. I can’t even handle the adds in the silent school section. I honestly feel like my endgame dps characters can take more punishment.

Back in the day the rule of thumb was more SP than CR and you were mostly good.

Is it still that or something else now?

That's what most will tell you, yes. But 3 high artifacts, most of your sp into what you need most which is really like 150sp for most, white mods, and knowledge go a long way.
All the threads about cr skips remind me of a lot of people that get gifted a car from a relative. Like sweet but they didn't pay for gas, insurance, or maintenance. So it's not a good present somehow lol